EASA Lic for N Reg pilots domiciled EU.

[moonym20]

AOPA has insider knowledge? Haven't had access to my copy yet... But thinking of print time... Mail time and editing... I'm curious that they proclaim this, even though the CAA themselves have not uttered a word to confirm the delay yet?

If it really is true, what does it say about the CAA??

[Someflyer]

I Don't think you can fault the CAA this time (although they provide plenty of opportunities to do so). They don't have the luxury of speculating what to do and they need to wait for EASA to publish the guidelines.

AOPA probably followed the logical path from the EU Parliament decision on 08/03 and made an "Educated guess".

[Fly4Business]

AOPA may not necessarily have more knowledge then is available from official side on the web. As stated and linked above, the EASA Derogation Excel Sheet lists the CAA as having applied for all opt-out.

[Pace]

Whispers are that the regulations re third country are not workable without certain consents by mainly the FAA. This is a ridiculous scenario which I am happy about that the 3rd country regs have been in place since 2011 yet are still not enabled and won't be till earliest 2017 or longer

Sidelined for six years? Why? because they are being nice to us poor pilots ? I doubt it more likely they don't legally stand up without a BASA and counter signatures and agreements with the FAA

Other Whispers are that the BASA expected in November only apply to PPL flying so the 3rd country regs will still remain illegal on CPL ATPL until a BASA is agreed on Commercial licenses and that could take years

There is a lot not being said to explain what has caused these regs to have been sidelined for so long and the real reasons behind that? My Guess another EASA mess-up and like the rest of the EU I don't suppose they know what they are doing either

EASA was nearly disbanded by the commission years ago for trying to reinvent the wheel! Why they didn't take the FAA system lock stock and Barrel and adjust it to suit EU requirements God knows. It would have saved 100s of millions of EU money and a lot of aviation a mass of headaches. it would also have lead to an international standardisation of regulations and hence safety in aviation
But no that was too simple too cost effective and too pro aviation for the EU

Pace

[Someflyer]

Last I heared was that PPL BASA will be effective this year. But the CPL/ATPL will take, as Pace mentioned, years. But the fault is not EASA but the FAA

Rumors about pressure groups (some of my sources are mentioning ALPA) that are pushing the FAA to stall these regulatory amendments on purpose in order to "Protect the US market"...

If this is the case, is there a way to counter pressure the FAA ?? maybe get the NBAA to join in by noting how many Biz jet drivers will be affected (In the end bit they will loose members in favor of their European counterparts).

Is there a way to make the FAA do the right thing ??

[Beaver100]

It isn't the fault of the FAA. Michael Brown from the FAA is working on the BASA and states,
'While there have been some initial discussions regarding the expansion of the agreement to include commercial and ATP licenses/certificates, there has been no formal proposal on this course of action. Should EASA opt to expand the agreement, I’m sure the FAA would respond favorably, and work toward that end would commence right away. That said, my guess would be that it would take an additional year (at least) to formalize such an agreement.'

As stated the latest delay to April 2017 applies to all third country licence holders involved in non commercial operations

[Pace]

Beaver

And that brings the point that if the PPL agreement is complete before 2017 but not the commercial aspect the 3rd country regulations for CPL ATP will have to be delayed further for those license holders as the needed BASA will only be relevant to PPL holders

[Beaver100]

Of course it will take longer but it's up to EASA to make the move. Regardless, the current draft regulation now law by Europarliament applies to all third country licenced pilots flying for non commercial operations. They can now fly to 8 April 2017.

[Someflyer]

Beaver,

Sorry for the ignorance but I don't know who Michael Brown is. All I know is that this is now a blame game between the two agencies which no one is going to come out better off.

There is another threat though in the horizon which nobody right now is addressing and it is the Part NCC coming in August which, despite the derogation (Which still have no official announcement or publication that confirms the delay) will end up
with the same result e.g third party CPL/ATPL will not be able to fly in Europe without EASA license.

[Mike Echo]

It crosses my mind that there may be a potential problem arising in August with Part NCC. The declaration that has to be signed includes that "all Flight crew members..... are trained in accordance with the applicable requirements."
I suspect that the "applicable requirements" is or was intended to cover the issues of FCL
Do the more knowledgeable ones here think there is a problem or am I just overthinking this and that these are totally separate?

[Beaver100]

I think there has been a misunderstanding, EASA Part NCC most definitely does not stipulate that you need an EASA licence to fly a non EU registered aircraft with EU based Operator.

Also you have to ask why would it when they have just extended until 8 April 2017.

[Mike Echo]

Ok, but I'm not miss understanding anything and agree that NCC does not stipulate anything. However, I do think there is a lot of details that may bite in the future with unintended/intentional consequences
I'll drop out of this thread but watch with interest.

[Pace]

You cannot trust EASAs slight of hand or motivations

Pace

[DirtyProp]

Why they didn't take the FAA system lock stock and Barrel and adjust it to suit EU requirements God knows. It would have saved 100s of millions of EU money and a lot of aviation a mass of headaches. it would also have lead to an international standardisation of regulations and hence safety in aviation
But no that was too simple too cost effective and too pro aviation for the EU

Because in that case the paper-shufflers and such would have had a hard time to justify their jobs and relative paychecks.
Many public agencies don't serve the community but just themselves.

On top of that, if a guy already has an FAA license with all ratings perfectly valid in Easa-land, no FTO will be able to make much money out of him.
No validation, no checks, no FEES.
Not good for local business and local CAA.

[Jetblu]

Nail, head, hammer right there! ^^

[moonym20]

CAA Delay - May 7th 2016

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/1163..pdf

Refer to the above link.

There is a delay of one month to May 7th 2016.

Why only one month? Who knows, I don't even think the CAA knows.

[this is my username]

.... Because it is a temporary exemption which has been put in place until EASA actually get their act together and extend the opt-out option ...

It also only applies to UK airspace.

[Pace]

Until things have been officially tied up and the CAA officially informed I cannot see what else they can do but cover for a short period of time.
Maybe the regulators and all concerned in Brussels should get their act together and spend less time in wine bars on lavish expense accounts and instead do their work which they are paid a fortune of needless wasted EU money to do ?

Pace

UK Licence Validation Requirements for Holders of ICAO Annex 1 Flight Crew Licences
1. The Civil Aviation Authority (“the CAA”), on behalf of the United Kingdom, pursuant to article 14(4) of Regulation (EC) No. 216/2008, exempts any holder of a pilot licence issued in compliance with the requirements of Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention by a third country, from the requirements of paragraph A of Annex III to Commission Regulation (EU) No.1178/2011 concerning validation of licences by the United Kingdom Civil Aviation Authority as competent authority, where:
a. There is no agreement concluded between the EU and the third country covering pilot licences; and
b. The licence holder does not comply with the validation requirements of Annex III; and
c. The holder wishes to exercise the privileges of the licence on a flight which is not for commercial purposes in an aircraft specified in Article 4(1) a, b or c of Regulation (EC)
No. 216/2008; and
d. Aircraft operation is conducted within UK airspace.
2. This Exemption has effect from 8 April 2016 until 7 May 2016, or until a derogation under Article 14(6) Regulation (EC) No. 216/2008 applies, whichever is the earlier.
S Baugh
for the Civil Aviation Authority
7 April 2016
Explanatory Note:
Temporary exemption from the requirements of Regulation (EU) No. 1178/2011 Annex III requiring the holders of ICAO Annex 1 flight crew licence holders to have their licences validated. This will enable continued operations pending confirmation of extension to 8 April 2017 of the EU Commission opt-out and subsequent UK derogation from the requirements specified in Regulation (EU) No. 1178/2011 Annex III.
The latest version of this document is available in electronic format at Publications | UK Civil Aviation Authority, where you may also register for e-mail notification of amendments.
7 April 2016 Page 1 of 1

[moonym20]

EASA 1 Year Delay

We knew anyway there was yet another delay and NAA's could opt out. When it arrives on the EASA website Doc 2016/539
"COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) 2016/539
of 6 April 2016 amending Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011 as regards pilot training, testing and periodic checking for performance-based navigation"


-Contained therein-

Page L91/1

"

(5) The period during which Member States may decide not to apply the provisions of Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011 in their territory to pilots holding a licence and associated medical certificate issued by a third country involved in the non-commercial operation of certain aircraft should be extended, because of the ongoing negotiations of the Union with certain third countries aimed at facilitating the conversion of such licences and medical certificates. It should be clarified that, where a Member State takes or has taken such a decision, it should publish that decision in an appropriate manner which allows all parties concerned to take note of it and ensures that the requirements of transparency and legal certainty are fulfilled."


-And-
Page 91/3

"(3) paragraph 4 of Article 12 is replaced by the following:
‘4. By way of derogation from paragraph 1, Member States may decide not to apply the provisions of this Regulation until 8 April 2017 to pilots holding a licence and associated medical certificate issued by a third country involved in the non-commercial operation of aircraft as specified in Article 4(1)(b) or (c) of Regulation (EC) No 216/2008. Member States shall make those decisions publicly available.’"


Understanding now, the UK CAA have not seen this document themselves yet, or are not aware of it (!) and issued a one month delay until they have further news. Does that make sense to folks?

[Pace]

the UK CAA have not seen this document themselves yet, or are not aware of it (

So what does that tell us ? Too much time in wine bars by our friends in Brussels
That change was voted by the commission weeks ago

Pace