HondaJet pilot report?
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Reading that B&CA profile, they key pointers that stand out when pitched against the peers of the M2 and the Phenom 100 are that:
Cabin is O.K. size-wise, it's fast and its fuel efficient. Downsides are field performance - both take off distances and landing distance, payload with full fuel is poor, range with max payload is poor, watch the real Basic Operating Weight once you add the usual options - at least 300 lbs more than the 'brochure' figures. They're still waiting for known icing conditions approval and RVSM approval so not quite ticked all the boxes yet on the certification front.
So, I guess one could say it's similar in some respects to the older, smaller Lears, but without the range capability.
Cabin is O.K. size-wise, it's fast and its fuel efficient. Downsides are field performance - both take off distances and landing distance, payload with full fuel is poor, range with max payload is poor, watch the real Basic Operating Weight once you add the usual options - at least 300 lbs more than the 'brochure' figures. They're still waiting for known icing conditions approval and RVSM approval so not quite ticked all the boxes yet on the certification front.
So, I guess one could say it's similar in some respects to the older, smaller Lears, but without the range capability.
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AviationWeek just printed their pilot report:
HondaJet | Analysis and Pilot Report | Business Aviation content from Aviation Week
Quote:
The HondaJet interior fit, finish, and material quality is well behind a competitive Citation 525 series product or a EMB-500, with poor panel and cabinetry fitment.
Fred George of AviationWeek seemed to think differently:
Quote:
But the Profile only tells part of the story. The HondaJet raises the bar in entry-level light jets for passenger comfort, cabin quiet and baggage capacity. Optional luxury features, such as an externally serviced toilet and lavatory with running water, are not available in other light jets. The aircraft also has the best ride quality in turbulence of any entry-level light jet in production, in our opinion.
Fit and finish of this aircraft are unsurpassed in its class. Exterior surface tolerances are tight, all doors fit precisely and the paintwork is superb. The interior furnishings also are first rate, befitting of an aircraft that sells for more than $5.1 million with options.
HondaJet | Analysis and Pilot Report | Business Aviation content from Aviation Week
Quote:
The HondaJet interior fit, finish, and material quality is well behind a competitive Citation 525 series product or a EMB-500, with poor panel and cabinetry fitment.
Fred George of AviationWeek seemed to think differently:
Quote:
But the Profile only tells part of the story. The HondaJet raises the bar in entry-level light jets for passenger comfort, cabin quiet and baggage capacity. Optional luxury features, such as an externally serviced toilet and lavatory with running water, are not available in other light jets. The aircraft also has the best ride quality in turbulence of any entry-level light jet in production, in our opinion.
Fit and finish of this aircraft are unsurpassed in its class. Exterior surface tolerances are tight, all doors fit precisely and the paintwork is superb. The interior furnishings also are first rate, befitting of an aircraft that sells for more than $5.1 million with options.
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Downsides are field performance...
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As much as I like the innovative (VFW 614 apart) concept of the aircraft, the takeoff distance of almost 4000ft quoted in that Aviation Week article for a light jet is a clear showstopper around here. What does anybody need a "lavatory sink with running water" for if he can't fly the aircraft in and out from the closest airfield? And 5+M$? Really?
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Honda has a good backlog of orders, so there seems to be a market for it.
But not in my part of the world (which is why I wrote "around here"). We have lots of small regional airfields with runways between 3000 and 4000ft. Around here, a small jet must be capable to operate from those if you want to sell more than just a few. Dassault aircraft for example are specifically built with these runways in mind.
A TBM is almost as much. Without a loo. What would you rather have?
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All very quiet on the Hondajet front?
Strikes me that there is next to no buzz in the market about the Hondajet now it's in service. Presumably they've sorted by now RVSM, flights into known icing etc. etc. - a few handicaps still around after initial deliveries.
New sales must be ever so slow in the current market for this kind of baby jet at that price point? At this rate, the £1 Billion-plus development costs look like a 50+ year ROI!
Have they improved landing performance at all post-certification?
How many outside of the USA now with end-users, not the dealers?
Super little jet, just a decade or more late, perhaps.
When is the Hondajet II to be revealed? Might be a much better value beast, rather like the Phenom 300 when compared to the Phenom 100, lesson's learn't and all that.
New sales must be ever so slow in the current market for this kind of baby jet at that price point? At this rate, the £1 Billion-plus development costs look like a 50+ year ROI!
Have they improved landing performance at all post-certification?
How many outside of the USA now with end-users, not the dealers?
Super little jet, just a decade or more late, perhaps.
When is the Hondajet II to be revealed? Might be a much better value beast, rather like the Phenom 300 when compared to the Phenom 100, lesson's learn't and all that.
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HondaJet Owner Tells his story
This video features a Honda Jet owner telling his story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQhLY8zdNCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQhLY8zdNCk
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Honda Jet
Spoke to one of their sales staff at The GA show on Lake Constance last week, was full of the sales pitch stuff of exceeding all the performance predictions!
My owner got sick of the 6 year wait and got his deposit back last year.
It was nice to see it in the flesh rather than all the mock ups over the years. Hope it is better than the F1 project!
My owner got sick of the 6 year wait and got his deposit back last year.
It was nice to see it in the flesh rather than all the mock ups over the years. Hope it is better than the F1 project!
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I don't think Honda did this for the ROI, they did it to prove they could. I won't comment on the wisdom of such a thought process.
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I hope they do come up with follow-on models with lots of hindsight and lessons learn't and expedite the development and certification process such that by the time it hits the market, it's not effectively ten years too late for that particular niche. They need a pretty good crystal ball to know what the market will want by the time Hondajet II finally emerges.
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You make it sound like the pursuit of developing the Bugatti Veyron for Volkswagen, ridiculously expensive vanity project, but ultimately a showcase of their technical capabilities. Arguably though, that genuinely ups the status of VW group overall, increasing car sales, whilst I doubt a similar effect could be seen to have crossed over into stronger brand and therefore sales for other Honda products. Yes, they're a very clever lot, those Honda guys, but will they have sold any more Civics or lawn mowers because they can make a clever little jet too - and the jet engine that goes in it? Would like to see a University study on that and brand value from doing crazy, clever, hideously expensive stuff! I wonder if someone really thought once, say fifteen years ago, they could sell a thousand Hondajets in several years? Or, it was just a technical showcase primarily and if they sold a few hundred over a few years, that would be a bonus?
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You make it sound like the pursuit of developing the Bugatti Veyron for Volkswagen, ridiculously expensive vanity project, but ultimately a showcase of their technical capabilities. Arguably though, that genuinely ups the status of VW group overall, increasing car sales, whilst I doubt a similar effect could be seen to have crossed over into stronger brand and therefore sales for other Honda products. Yes, they're a very clever lot, those Honda guys, but will they have sold any more Civics or lawn mowers because they can make a clever little jet too - and the jet engine that goes in it? Would like to see a University study on that and brand value from doing crazy, clever, hideously expensive stuff! I wonder if someone really thought once, say fifteen years ago, they could sell a thousand Hondajets in several years? Or, it was just a technical showcase primarily and if they sold a few hundred over a few years, that would be a bonus?
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As regards magazine etc articles, there are a good few now. I heard the latest issue of Car magazine had a piece and that there was a good one in Flying too...
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top...mph-hondajet#1
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top...mph-hondajet#1
Driver tests out firm's new £4m 'Civic of the Skies' plane | Daily Mail Online
Seems to be mostly positive feedback
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top...mph-hondajet#1
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top...mph-hondajet#1
Driver tests out firm's new £4m 'Civic of the Skies' plane | Daily Mail Online
Seems to be mostly positive feedback
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Sorry - posting fail, meant to post link to the Robb Report piece but doubled on the Top Gear...
The 500mph Honda | Robb Report
The 500mph Honda | Robb Report
There's a review in this month's Pilot magazine in the UK.
The big thing that struck me was that it has a limiting crosswind of just 20 knots, said in the article to be down to the increase in keel area from the engine configuration.
20 knots is going to hamper sales, surely?
The big thing that struck me was that it has a limiting crosswind of just 20 knots, said in the article to be down to the increase in keel area from the engine configuration.
20 knots is going to hamper sales, surely?
Is it a hard limit of 20kts or is it similar to the Lear where they only quote a demonstrated crosswind of 25kts in the manuals and under Private Ops you are free to test your cohones above that should you wish?
I would imagine it would have a larger rudder than similar types with tail mounted engines since the asymmetric forces in engine failure are greater given the mounting position. Does the article mention the asymmetric handling qualities at all.?
I would imagine it would have a larger rudder than similar types with tail mounted engines since the asymmetric forces in engine failure are greater given the mounting position. Does the article mention the asymmetric handling qualities at all.?