KingAir crash near Chigwell?
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Buzz B - A good point well made.
SMS is the responsibility of the Safety Manager. Ensuring that the company has a safety culture and awareness. It is also the responsibility of every member of staff, especially management to ensure those safety practices are adhered to and that line managers understand risk and safety. There were several layers of risk lined up before this accident that should have been spotted across several departments. If it was SDS in the captain, then that's just lady luck playing a bad hand, but there is enough evidence here to suggest it could have been a combination of factors that led to the accident that certainly aren't bad luck. What ever the actual cause, which will never be known for sure, it has exposed a culture across the industry, certainly not limited to LEA, that risk is certainly not being managed. We have a 'risk based oversight' system now, with 'self regulation' of that risk. That in itself is a huge risk. What's the point of regulation if the regulator turns a blind eye and fails to enforce the regulations?
In the report it refers to a risk assessment done by LEA themselves saying that it is a risk to operate the KA single crew, yet this flight, and indeed every flight they do on the King air is single crew. So not actually following there own risk assessment. And the regulator clearly thought this was OK. They also thought it was OK for a passenger to operate as second pilot, with no type rating, formal training on type, or SOP's in place for a proper 2 crew operation. This practice, is in fact illegal, but the CAA failed to either spot it, or act on it. The fact that this was actually written into the LEA risk register, and the CAA failed to spot it and act on it surely puts some of the blame at their doorstep.
An accident in a KA flying with a 'PA' from a marginal airfield was inevitable. I actually hope it was SDS, as at least the poor chap didn't know anything about it. Can't say the same for the PA though who was never really given a chance to recover the situation given his lack of training, knowledge or rating on the type.
SMS is the responsibility of the Safety Manager. Ensuring that the company has a safety culture and awareness. It is also the responsibility of every member of staff, especially management to ensure those safety practices are adhered to and that line managers understand risk and safety. There were several layers of risk lined up before this accident that should have been spotted across several departments. If it was SDS in the captain, then that's just lady luck playing a bad hand, but there is enough evidence here to suggest it could have been a combination of factors that led to the accident that certainly aren't bad luck. What ever the actual cause, which will never be known for sure, it has exposed a culture across the industry, certainly not limited to LEA, that risk is certainly not being managed. We have a 'risk based oversight' system now, with 'self regulation' of that risk. That in itself is a huge risk. What's the point of regulation if the regulator turns a blind eye and fails to enforce the regulations?
In the report it refers to a risk assessment done by LEA themselves saying that it is a risk to operate the KA single crew, yet this flight, and indeed every flight they do on the King air is single crew. So not actually following there own risk assessment. And the regulator clearly thought this was OK. They also thought it was OK for a passenger to operate as second pilot, with no type rating, formal training on type, or SOP's in place for a proper 2 crew operation. This practice, is in fact illegal, but the CAA failed to either spot it, or act on it. The fact that this was actually written into the LEA risk register, and the CAA failed to spot it and act on it surely puts some of the blame at their doorstep.
An accident in a KA flying with a 'PA' from a marginal airfield was inevitable. I actually hope it was SDS, as at least the poor chap didn't know anything about it. Can't say the same for the PA though who was never really given a chance to recover the situation given his lack of training, knowledge or rating on the type.
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Was he asleep on the job or did he turn a blind eye to these practises......or was he otherwise engaged?
How in the name of all that is common sense and safe does that work?
Any one of those jobs, given the size of LEA and the departure of so many experienced Legacy pilots , would be more than enough for one guy.
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Ok guys and gals.......can I make a radical suggestion?
Time for a truce maybe..?..and for Patrick hansen to give us a detailed and public response and statement as to what he now intends to do in the light of the report and what changes will now be made to ensure that the risks of this happening again are substantialy diminished.
Weve all had the hell beaten out of us by the loss of good friends some of us who knew them well for years....and this report brought it all back.
Lux may well have breathed a collective sigh of relief when the AAIB report was published as it could have been a whole lot worse and made a direct connection between the bad practises revealed and the deaths. It did not, but equaly the report did not rule out the possibility that there was such a connection....and indeed there are obvious gaps in the report which allows us to draw our own conclusions.
Stinging critiscism has been made of LEA practices and management and it is clear change is needed. Those managers have feelings too and most likely some will feel a degree of guilt.....properly so..
Prune is often dismissed as the hiding place for cowards and fruitcakes. Maybe that is true of some contributors but for years it has been the industry standard mouth piece for those who do not have a voice. Within GA where there is no union representation it is the only opportunity pilots have to get messages home to management. Equaly it is used and contributed to by many managers...certainly everyone reads it.
The lid has been lifted off this can and whats inside is not pretty....
Rather than read daily about more worms coming out of the tin.....shall we back off now and give the main man at lux a chance for all of our sakes ( and respecting the memory of Francis and Rob) and for the company that pays our bills...and we hope will continue to do so....?
So.....Patrick Hansen.....over to you......please.
Good idea everyone?
Time for a truce maybe..?..and for Patrick hansen to give us a detailed and public response and statement as to what he now intends to do in the light of the report and what changes will now be made to ensure that the risks of this happening again are substantialy diminished.
Weve all had the hell beaten out of us by the loss of good friends some of us who knew them well for years....and this report brought it all back.
Lux may well have breathed a collective sigh of relief when the AAIB report was published as it could have been a whole lot worse and made a direct connection between the bad practises revealed and the deaths. It did not, but equaly the report did not rule out the possibility that there was such a connection....and indeed there are obvious gaps in the report which allows us to draw our own conclusions.
Stinging critiscism has been made of LEA practices and management and it is clear change is needed. Those managers have feelings too and most likely some will feel a degree of guilt.....properly so..
Prune is often dismissed as the hiding place for cowards and fruitcakes. Maybe that is true of some contributors but for years it has been the industry standard mouth piece for those who do not have a voice. Within GA where there is no union representation it is the only opportunity pilots have to get messages home to management. Equaly it is used and contributed to by many managers...certainly everyone reads it.
The lid has been lifted off this can and whats inside is not pretty....
Rather than read daily about more worms coming out of the tin.....shall we back off now and give the main man at lux a chance for all of our sakes ( and respecting the memory of Francis and Rob) and for the company that pays our bills...and we hope will continue to do so....?
So.....Patrick Hansen.....over to you......please.
Good idea everyone?
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In that statement Id ask Patrick to address the issue of formal representation of the company work force within an elected company council with regular meetings and direct access to management......so that they can be held to account and to get rid of all the "need to know only " cloak and dagger nosense that presently exists where keeping us pilots in the dark and guessing is all about one man's exercise of POWER........
Join Date: Oct 2003
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No knowledge if the individuals involved, but my experience of many years in the industry is that keeping the workforce in the dark is most often an attempt to disguise incompetence rather than any demonstration of "power".
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Nothing heard....(apart from a well spun article from lux press officer blaming the accident on the captains health)...
Lea and lux stand beneath contempt from every angle and their solution is clearly" business as usual" whilst hoping everyone forgets.
Judging by the mass exodus at least those in Lea are voting with their feet in disgust
Bad things happen in badly run companies...
What's next????
Lea and lux stand beneath contempt from every angle and their solution is clearly" business as usual" whilst hoping everyone forgets.
Judging by the mass exodus at least those in Lea are voting with their feet in disgust
Bad things happen in badly run companies...
What's next????
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{Quote }.
(apart from a well spun article from lux press officer blaming the accident on the captains health)
Did the AAIB report specifically blame the captains health for the crash ?
I thought the cause of the crash was inconclusive, so how can Lux make that statement.
W.
(apart from a well spun article from lux press officer blaming the accident on the captains health)
Did the AAIB report specifically blame the captains health for the crash ?
I thought the cause of the crash was inconclusive, so how can Lux make that statement.
W.
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announcement just made that "Luxaviation rebranding of LEA is now complete"
Unfortunate but very appropriate that The brand logo "Lux" is also a brand name owned by Unilever for its range of cleaning detergent and soap products.
I seem to recall that In the words if the old advert "Lux washes whiter"
The irony of this will doubtless go over the heads of those involved....who have been for ever stained by the shameful revelations of this AAIB report.
Unfortunate but very appropriate that The brand logo "Lux" is also a brand name owned by Unilever for its range of cleaning detergent and soap products.
I seem to recall that In the words if the old advert "Lux washes whiter"
The irony of this will doubtless go over the heads of those involved....who have been for ever stained by the shameful revelations of this AAIB report.
