KingAir crash near Chigwell?
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Certain people are making personal attacks on individuals within the company on an anonymous forum, if you really have conviction in what you are saying then post your contact details too.
Eng report was a fast feedback form whereas the tech log sits in the airframe, how else do the office know what's happening. Should it have been written up? Well that's the captains job, maybe more pressure back from management to crew if it was an issue that should have been entered. I neither know or have read all those details.
TAWS in a king air, how many other operators have this fitted? Refer to the report for the answer. Grounding the fleet for checks? Well the CAA would have crawled up the companies arse during the investigation and the aoc is still active so I guess they're happy.
Even on a fully serviceable airframe thing go wrong, history has shown that. Even when there are no defects things break after breke release, history has also shown that. Sometimes tragic events happen, just do your job keep sharp and when that day from hell presents do your best.
Unless anyone has proof of any deliberate wrong doing, this is and was a terrible ACCIDENT.
Eng report was a fast feedback form whereas the tech log sits in the airframe, how else do the office know what's happening. Should it have been written up? Well that's the captains job, maybe more pressure back from management to crew if it was an issue that should have been entered. I neither know or have read all those details.
TAWS in a king air, how many other operators have this fitted? Refer to the report for the answer. Grounding the fleet for checks? Well the CAA would have crawled up the companies arse during the investigation and the aoc is still active so I guess they're happy.
Even on a fully serviceable airframe thing go wrong, history has shown that. Even when there are no defects things break after breke release, history has also shown that. Sometimes tragic events happen, just do your job keep sharp and when that day from hell presents do your best.
Unless anyone has proof of any deliberate wrong doing, this is and was a terrible ACCIDENT.
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There are two issues
1) the breach of a regulation
2) the accident
The AAIB did not find that 1 was the cause or even a contributing factor to 2. Indeed they did not find any maintenance issue or airframe failure that contributed to the accident.
1) the breach of a regulation
2) the accident
The AAIB did not find that 1 was the cause or even a contributing factor to 2. Indeed they did not find any maintenance issue or airframe failure that contributed to the accident.
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As others had previously mentioned it would be nice now if CVR's can be fitted to these smaller type of aircrafts so at least there can be less specalation when an accident like this occurs.
I have to admit, not infering that LEA adopt this type of procedure, but I have never understood this putting tech items in emails. I have witnessed in several companies this practice and wonder why a Captain would do this. The Captain would say, well I'm doing this to help the company out, yeah that might be true, but what about the next crew who take it over - are they full aware of all defects, and what happens if they arent happy to fly plane, now there the bad guys if they tech it, and then the list of items gets longer. Also what is the position if you hand over aircraft with known defects and do not tech it - could you as previous crew be partly responsible if the next crew have an accident. In a perfect world items should be put in tech log, and if they can be defered, then defer items. This then gives operation a chance to plan for said maintenace - job done. However we are rarely in the perfect world and this is where we need good judgement.
I have to admit, not infering that LEA adopt this type of procedure, but I have never understood this putting tech items in emails. I have witnessed in several companies this practice and wonder why a Captain would do this. The Captain would say, well I'm doing this to help the company out, yeah that might be true, but what about the next crew who take it over - are they full aware of all defects, and what happens if they arent happy to fly plane, now there the bad guys if they tech it, and then the list of items gets longer. Also what is the position if you hand over aircraft with known defects and do not tech it - could you as previous crew be partly responsible if the next crew have an accident. In a perfect world items should be put in tech log, and if they can be defered, then defer items. This then gives operation a chance to plan for said maintenace - job done. However we are rarely in the perfect world and this is where we need good judgement.
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It has to be said on the question of attitude to flight safety the company already has some form.
Scarcely six months before this incident one of its aircraft took off from Zurich at night with pitot cover on and continued flight over mountainous terrain to Munich, the crew ignoring all warnings and despite severely impaired controls. ( a reported incident)
This crew and its passengers lucked out on that occasion and the holes in the swiss cheese didnt all line up in circumstances where many have died before....
Most would have assumed P45s all round for the crew.
Recently......well after the fatal Kingair Crash.....the captain involved in that earlier incident has been promoted to a senior management position in Luxaviation uk.
Has the company in fact learned anything from the accident or changed its cavalier attitude to operational safety? ..........on that evidence........probably little.
Scarcely six months before this incident one of its aircraft took off from Zurich at night with pitot cover on and continued flight over mountainous terrain to Munich, the crew ignoring all warnings and despite severely impaired controls. ( a reported incident)
This crew and its passengers lucked out on that occasion and the holes in the swiss cheese didnt all line up in circumstances where many have died before....
Most would have assumed P45s all round for the crew.
Recently......well after the fatal Kingair Crash.....the captain involved in that earlier incident has been promoted to a senior management position in Luxaviation uk.
Has the company in fact learned anything from the accident or changed its cavalier attitude to operational safety? ..........on that evidence........probably little.
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Quote from the Luxaviation website
HIGHEST STANDARDS
The Luxaviation Group is one of the largest private aviation operators worldwide, currently managing 250 aircraft under the most stringent safety standards.
The Luxaviation Group is one of the largest private aviation operators worldwide, currently managing 250 aircraft under the most stringent safety standards.
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Sure Lux can talk the talk.....
Now prove you are genuine by walking the walk.
As new kids on the block they need to learn very rapidly that there's more to success in this business than spending vast amounts of money very quickly.
Now prove you are genuine by walking the walk.
As new kids on the block they need to learn very rapidly that there's more to success in this business than spending vast amounts of money very quickly.
Last edited by Noiffsorbuts; 18th Oct 2016 at 09:12.
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1000s of sectors flown per year and to some of the most demanding airports in the world and 2 crashes, 1 one in LVP due to a truck infringing the runway and the other determined by AAIB most probably to a sudden death incap in poor weather. I think they are walking the walk. You're just talking...
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It's been a few years since I flew UK corporate/GA but I can relate to some of the questionable practices I have read on this thread regarding tech issues and pressure to complete flights. As to having flown 1000's of sectors without incident, part of that is luck as well as design. When enough of the holes in the Swiss cheese line up then the rest is history!
A few years ago there was a Citation 550 operator that landed at the wrong airport in Oxfordshire which happened to be unlicensed. They realised their mistake but only after landing. They then immediately taxied around and took off to their intended destination. This was a public transport flight with pax! Can't remember the name of the operator but it was hushed up from recollection.
A few years ago there was a Citation 550 operator that landed at the wrong airport in Oxfordshire which happened to be unlicensed. They realised their mistake but only after landing. They then immediately taxied around and took off to their intended destination. This was a public transport flight with pax! Can't remember the name of the operator but it was hushed up from recollection.
Last edited by KyleRB; 18th Oct 2016 at 20:26.
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A few years ago there was a Citation 550 operator that landed at the wrong airport in Oxfordshire. They realised their mistake but only after landing. They then immediately taxied around and took off to their intended destination. This was a public transport flight with pax! Can't remember the name of the operator.
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That says much about The Association and absolutely nothing about the company formerly known as.......
Declining the nomination would be a much appreciated gesture by those of us who greatly miss our dead pilot friends.
It would be unthinkable to see yet more published pictures of the management team wearing funny hats and glasses at an award bash..... partying as if nothing had happened ....
Declining the nomination would be a much appreciated gesture by those of us who greatly miss our dead pilot friends.
It would be unthinkable to see yet more published pictures of the management team wearing funny hats and glasses at an award bash..... partying as if nothing had happened ....
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regarding the Zurich \munich incident this only came to light when reported by the flight attendant .......
The chap in the right seat was a highly competent and experienced multi-crew pilot.
ECON cruise, LR cruise...
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I spoke to the gentleman in the RHS 5 days before the crash, telling him to get his application with VJT in, PDQ. Still blaming myself for not pushing harder, earlier.
Ah, I see the comment to which I responded has disappeared. Thank you.
N4790P