Private jet crashed at Moscow Airport Vnukovo: 4 killed
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Terma claims that their surface movement radar is installed in Vnukovo: http://www.terma.com/media/195921/sm..._may2012__.pdf
It would seem that either the ATC was asleep at the wheel (figuratively speaking) or the SMR was out of order. The snow plow guy could have driven onto the wrong runway by accident, and failsafe systems meant to prevent this kind of collision somehow malfunctioned.
It would seem that either the ATC was asleep at the wheel (figuratively speaking) or the SMR was out of order. The snow plow guy could have driven onto the wrong runway by accident, and failsafe systems meant to prevent this kind of collision somehow malfunctioned.
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Aaaargh - so much disinformation already less than 24h after the accident... 
About questioning the pilot's decision to take off: well, I assume they did LVTO training at FSI (the BEA will certainly find out about that) and - voilá - a takeoff in 350m vis shouldn't have posed a problem.
About no proper de-icing: valid point but
. The airplane crashed because it hit a vehicle on the runway during takeoff.
Pressure from the passenger or get-home-itis: again. See above.
It seems to be obvious what happened. Now it only has to be established why on earth this vehicle and the fast moving Falcon were on the same runway at the same time.
Should be easy enough to find out, one should think, but let's see...
About questioning the pilot's decision to take off: well, I assume they did LVTO training at FSI (the BEA will certainly find out about that) and - voilá - a takeoff in 350m vis shouldn't have posed a problem.
About no proper de-icing: valid point but
. The airplane crashed because it hit a vehicle on the runway during takeoff.Pressure from the passenger or get-home-itis:
again. See above.It seems to be obvious what happened. Now it only has to be established why on earth this vehicle and the fast moving Falcon were on the same runway at the same time.
Should be easy enough to find out, one should think, but let's see...
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And as for Russia meeting the standards and recommended practices of ICAO....another joke, like their airports, airport managers, and the medieval way in which airport officials behave...like robots of a despotic state!
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jetopa:
Exactly this is the question. Everything else is nothing more than contributing factors at this point, if at all.
...why on earth this vehicle and the fast moving Falcon were on the same runway at the same time
Exactly this is the question. Everything else is nothing more than contributing factors at this point, if at all.
Last edited by 20milesout; 21st Oct 2014 at 20:54. Reason: typo
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Vnukovo has two intersecting runways. Early indications are that the jet was taking off on one, the snow plow was cleaning the other, and they just happened to meet at the intersection of two runways at the same time.
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Sigh......
In my mind, the most dangerous place to be in a powered aircraft is on the surface.
Remember, the most awful accident in aviation history is the collision on the ground of two 747's at Tenerife.
It will be interesting to see the sophistication of the surface surveillance system in place (and whether it was operational or compromised). And whether it provided any warnings to ATC prior to impact.
The problem with all surface surveillance systems in place around the world right now is, regardless of their sophistication, the warning software only activates in the tower. By the time the threat is (1) announced, (2) recognized (3) reacted to (4) warning issued to aircraft/surface vehicle involved (5) warning recognized (assuming transmission not "blocked" (6) and warning reacted to, well the event is already over.
The only way to solve this problem with existing technologies is the put the warning in the cockpit as well as ATC. The only way to do this is with ADS-B technology.
I was involved in the research of this application. It is promising. But, to initiate, it will involve full integration of "Next Gen" technology in all aircraft and surface vehicles.
I know I will not see this in my lifetime (and I am not that old). I wish it would.
Current surface systems, even at their most sophisticated level (ASDE-X), are still limited by the above limitations. Cockpit annunciations of conflict must be incorporated to enhance surface safety. That technology would have saved this accident from happening, along with many others.
And, surface guidance must be provided in the cockpit. One of the great ironies in aviation is that Part 25 aircraft are being delivered with the capability of navigating around the world within meters of assigned route, achieving an autoland with virtual zero visibility, then clear the runway and be guided to the gate by a paper document and compass. Taxi out with the same technology.Bizarre.
Surface vehicles can purchase (Garmin) GPS equipment that shows surface position. Part 25 aircraft cannot unless equipped with Class III EFB's. (Maybe Class II's by now? Not sure).
Boeing has a system installed in their 777 research simulator that provides surface guidance (magenta line) for ground operations. Delivered by CPDLC.
The Falcon 50 involved could well have been a large transport aircraft, with the result being hundreds of fatalities. This story will be relegated to page 3 or later because of the relative low number of fatalities.
Hopefully, the aviation press will attach the great significance to this event that it deserves.
In my mind, the most dangerous place to be in a powered aircraft is on the surface.
Remember, the most awful accident in aviation history is the collision on the ground of two 747's at Tenerife.
It will be interesting to see the sophistication of the surface surveillance system in place (and whether it was operational or compromised). And whether it provided any warnings to ATC prior to impact.
The problem with all surface surveillance systems in place around the world right now is, regardless of their sophistication, the warning software only activates in the tower. By the time the threat is (1) announced, (2) recognized (3) reacted to (4) warning issued to aircraft/surface vehicle involved (5) warning recognized (assuming transmission not "blocked" (6) and warning reacted to, well the event is already over.
The only way to solve this problem with existing technologies is the put the warning in the cockpit as well as ATC. The only way to do this is with ADS-B technology.
I was involved in the research of this application. It is promising. But, to initiate, it will involve full integration of "Next Gen" technology in all aircraft and surface vehicles.
I know I will not see this in my lifetime (and I am not that old). I wish it would.
Current surface systems, even at their most sophisticated level (ASDE-X), are still limited by the above limitations. Cockpit annunciations of conflict must be incorporated to enhance surface safety. That technology would have saved this accident from happening, along with many others.
And, surface guidance must be provided in the cockpit. One of the great ironies in aviation is that Part 25 aircraft are being delivered with the capability of navigating around the world within meters of assigned route, achieving an autoland with virtual zero visibility, then clear the runway and be guided to the gate by a paper document and compass. Taxi out with the same technology.Bizarre.
Surface vehicles can purchase (Garmin) GPS equipment that shows surface position. Part 25 aircraft cannot unless equipped with Class III EFB's. (Maybe Class II's by now? Not sure).
Boeing has a system installed in their 777 research simulator that provides surface guidance (magenta line) for ground operations. Delivered by CPDLC.
The Falcon 50 involved could well have been a large transport aircraft, with the result being hundreds of fatalities. This story will be relegated to page 3 or later because of the relative low number of fatalities.
Hopefully, the aviation press will attach the great significance to this event that it deserves.
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Snowplower driver says he didn't see any lights of the approaching aircraft, didn't hear any noise due to the noises of the snowplower and he also says he lost orientation and didn't know he was approaching the active runway.
"I lost orientation and didn't notice when I ended up on the runway" said Vladimir during the interview with investigators.
"The aircraft was taking off and I almost didn't see it, didn't hear it, because of the working snowplower".
(don't ask me why he used the word "almost" and how it is possible to "almost not see" something -nonetheless, it is the exact word he used)
"There were no lights, nothing, I didn't see a thing..and then there was a collision", he added.
The driver has been working in Vnukovo for 10 years.
Medical personnel in Vnukovo confirmed that the driver was absolutely sober at the beginning of his shift and that he was allowed to start the shift in accordance with the regulations.
http://top.rbc.ru/society/22/10/2014/54474451cbb20f63ae234f11#xtor=AL-[internal_traffic]--[rbc.ru]-[main_body]-[main_item]-[title]
"I lost orientation and didn't notice when I ended up on the runway" said Vladimir during the interview with investigators.
"The aircraft was taking off and I almost didn't see it, didn't hear it, because of the working snowplower".
(don't ask me why he used the word "almost" and how it is possible to "almost not see" something -nonetheless, it is the exact word he used)
"There were no lights, nothing, I didn't see a thing..and then there was a collision", he added.
The driver has been working in Vnukovo for 10 years.
Medical personnel in Vnukovo confirmed that the driver was absolutely sober at the beginning of his shift and that he was allowed to start the shift in accordance with the regulations.
http://top.rbc.ru/society/22/10/2014/54474451cbb20f63ae234f11#xtor=AL-[internal_traffic]--[rbc.ru]-[main_body]-[main_item]-[title]
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@ Shore Guy: very good point. I'd like to see that sort of equipment, too.
@ Surnamer: I am surprised to read the snowplower's declaration at this stage already. Normally, one would expect these kind of things to be said in front of investigators, most likely in the presence of an attorney - and behind closed doors.
Which again leads me to my suspicion that in this country nobody is interested in digging deep and finding uncomftortable truths leading to uncomfortable questions.
Finding a probable scapegoat so early on must be convenient.
@ Surnamer: I am surprised to read the snowplower's declaration at this stage already. Normally, one would expect these kind of things to be said in front of investigators, most likely in the presence of an attorney - and behind closed doors.
Which again leads me to my suspicion that in this country nobody is interested in digging deep and finding uncomftortable truths leading to uncomfortable questions.
Finding a probable scapegoat so early on must be convenient.
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Been flying out of VKO last 8 years, this was an accident to happen sooner or later. Ruskies have improved a lot since I first flew into VKO but still are way too far from standards in all country.
Knowing VKO I can be sure crash happened on runway intersection, no lights or signs that tell you are entering either runway so truck driver just entered it with no idea he was on it. Rest is speculation and bad luck.
Knowing VKO I can be sure crash happened on runway intersection, no lights or signs that tell you are entering either runway so truck driver just entered it with no idea he was on it. Rest is speculation and bad luck.
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Crash of Falcon 50 on TO from UUWW.
Total's CEO Christophe de Margerie dies in Moscow plane crash
Christophe de Margerie, the chief executive of French oil company Total, has died in an air crash in Moscow.
His corporate jet collided with a snow plough and was then engulfed in flames. All four people on board were killed.
Crash occured at 23:58MSK 20-09-2014 at bad weather takeoff from RWY06 (mist with 350m visibility) at intersection after plane hit snowplug with (from different sources) right wing or nose gear.
(...when I lost direction...and doesn't recognise that I drove to the runaway...let's assume that I drove to rwy... have not noticed that she begin takeoff... I heard and see nothing, because technics was working...no lights, nothing... and than impact... )
Christophe de Margerie, the chief executive of French oil company Total, has died in an air crash in Moscow.
His corporate jet collided with a snow plough and was then engulfed in flames. All four people on board were killed.
Crash occured at 23:58MSK 20-09-2014 at bad weather takeoff from RWY06 (mist with 350m visibility) at intersection after plane hit snowplug with (from different sources) right wing or nose gear.
(...when I lost direction...and doesn't recognise that I drove to the runaway...let's assume that I drove to rwy... have not noticed that she begin takeoff... I heard and see nothing, because technics was working...no lights, nothing... and than impact... )
Last edited by Kulverstukas; 22nd Oct 2014 at 10:17.
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1. The driver had to stop 100 meters before RWs intersection, but due to fog he could not see any markings or lights (what he says).
2. The investigation will be VERY deep, because VIP passenger was VERY important investor.
2. The investigation will be VERY deep, because VIP passenger was VERY important investor.
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"It has also been revealed that the taxiing shortly before the crash was being coordinated by a traffic control intern, RIA Novosti was told by a source inside Vnukovo. The official spokesman for the airport has declined to comment".
Report carried by RT News
http://rt.com/news/197740-video-plane-total-crash/
Note of Caution
RT news also carried "library photos" of the jet concerned.
However... that was a 900 belonging to NJE
Report carried by RT News
http://rt.com/news/197740-video-plane-total-crash/
Note of Caution
RT news also carried "library photos" of the jet concerned.
However... that was a 900 belonging to NJE
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BBC News - Moscow Total plane crash snowplough driver 'got lost'
A snowplough driver at a Moscow airport has said he lost his bearings before a collision with a private plane in which Total boss Christophe de Margerie died.
Vladimir Martynenkov told Russian TV he was unaware he had entered the runway.
A snowplough driver at a Moscow airport has said he lost his bearings before a collision with a private plane in which Total boss Christophe de Margerie died.
Vladimir Martynenkov told Russian TV he was unaware he had entered the runway.
Is it true that the lawyer now suddenly admits that the driver in fact had a drop or two?
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The spox of the investigating authority said:
"By now it is obvious that the crash was caused by the negligence of officials who did not bother to make sure airport staff were doing their jobs. Instead they claim it was a tragic coincidence"
"By now it is obvious that the crash was caused by the negligence of officials who did not bother to make sure airport staff were doing their jobs. Instead they claim it was a tragic coincidence"