Saudi Landing Permits - New Rules?
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Saudi Landing Permits - New Rules?
Not sure if anyone has any info on these new rules in KSA? Would very much appreciate any input.
Apparently there is a new guy in GACA who has implemented a rule which is affecting many VIP Charter Operators.
I am being told that if you cannot ferry in or out of the KSA if you are a foreign registered aircraft, i.e. you cannot do Paris - Jeddah or Jeddah - Paris with an EU or even a GCC registered operator - they must be a KSA operator.
I have spoken to handling agents in Jeddah and Riyadh who have confirmed this rule and both stated it is causing havoc and subsequent loss of business. I have also tried speaking with GACA directly to get this new rule and its regulations in writing, but with it being Ramadan very few are willing to talk!
However, I note on CFMU today that there are a small number of evident charter aircraft operating in and out of the KSA today. Whilst I can appreciate your passenger has a lot to do with your landing permit in that part of the world....how can some EU operators get permits and others not?
I have lost 3 (different) charters all with repeat passengers (so individuals who have got KSA permits before with ease) within a space of a week due to these new regulations, with operators telling me they cannot get the permit.
GACA were going through a phase of revalidating all KSA based operators and putting them on AOCs to help stamp out grey charters. But surly this bizarre permit rule will only force more business to KSA grey charter operators...!
Does anyone have any suggestions, guidance, similar info? Thanks!
Apparently there is a new guy in GACA who has implemented a rule which is affecting many VIP Charter Operators.
I am being told that if you cannot ferry in or out of the KSA if you are a foreign registered aircraft, i.e. you cannot do Paris - Jeddah or Jeddah - Paris with an EU or even a GCC registered operator - they must be a KSA operator.
I have spoken to handling agents in Jeddah and Riyadh who have confirmed this rule and both stated it is causing havoc and subsequent loss of business. I have also tried speaking with GACA directly to get this new rule and its regulations in writing, but with it being Ramadan very few are willing to talk!
However, I note on CFMU today that there are a small number of evident charter aircraft operating in and out of the KSA today. Whilst I can appreciate your passenger has a lot to do with your landing permit in that part of the world....how can some EU operators get permits and others not?
I have lost 3 (different) charters all with repeat passengers (so individuals who have got KSA permits before with ease) within a space of a week due to these new regulations, with operators telling me they cannot get the permit.
GACA were going through a phase of revalidating all KSA based operators and putting them on AOCs to help stamp out grey charters. But surly this bizarre permit rule will only force more business to KSA grey charter operators...!
Does anyone have any suggestions, guidance, similar info? Thanks!
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They grey market is an issue that EASA wants stamped out, KSA is therefore insisting that all large aircraft are operated under a new 125 regulation if not 135. And foreign registered aircraft will not be permitted to stay in KSA for more than 48 hours or similar, therefore the grey market will be closed.
As usual in this part of the world the initial interpretation of the rulings can sometimes cause confusion.
Once the Eid is over, you should try contacting VP Safety and Economic Affairs in GACA for clarification, alternatively for the flights that you have now, could you not save them by using a Saudi operator?
Mutt
As usual in this part of the world the initial interpretation of the rulings can sometimes cause confusion.
Once the Eid is over, you should try contacting VP Safety and Economic Affairs in GACA for clarification, alternatively for the flights that you have now, could you not save them by using a Saudi operator?
Mutt
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Just that I understood this correctly, EU reg charter or private aircraft brings passengers in from any EU country and return flight is planned 4 days later. In this scenario the aircraft will no longer be permitted to stay and wait for passengers for return flight?!
How will this fix the problem with gray charter market?
CP
How will this fix the problem with gray charter market?
CP
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This rule has not only been affecting foreign charter operators, but foreign management companies managing aircraft that are wholly owned by a Saudi individual or company. You can ferry in for a private owner, but only after a lengthy discussion between the owner's office and the GACA, presenting evidence of aircraft ownership etc.
For ferrying to collect passengers on a charter, unless there is a passenger on the manifest when applying for the Saudi permits the permits will not be granted. For most of the Gulf companies who operate on a Part 121 style AOC, will this mean having to apply for 5th freedom rights in Saudi to pick up paying passengers and fly them to their onward destination??
The rumour I heard is that this is only a temporary 'overkill' barring even the legit foreign charter operators from ferrying in. I heard there is someone in an acting capacity at the top and it is through this gentleman where the immediate change came into affect. Once he steps down, we can expect some of these changes to be relaxed. That's what I heard anyway.
The Grey market is a big issue there so I would expect there will still be a change in procedures, but maybe to a lesser extent that there has been now.
On a different note, have you heard of the new bar procedures?...
Caution when you fly into Saudi even with a sealed bar if your next leg is a domestic sector. They confiscate your bar at your port of entry and only return it to you when you depart from your entry airport to a foreign destination. For example flying from Europe into Jeddah and then out again you'll be fine. Flying from Europe to Jeddah, on to Riyadh then out will mean your bar remains in Jeddah...even on a short turnaround.
Cheers!
For ferrying to collect passengers on a charter, unless there is a passenger on the manifest when applying for the Saudi permits the permits will not be granted. For most of the Gulf companies who operate on a Part 121 style AOC, will this mean having to apply for 5th freedom rights in Saudi to pick up paying passengers and fly them to their onward destination??
The rumour I heard is that this is only a temporary 'overkill' barring even the legit foreign charter operators from ferrying in. I heard there is someone in an acting capacity at the top and it is through this gentleman where the immediate change came into affect. Once he steps down, we can expect some of these changes to be relaxed. That's what I heard anyway.
The Grey market is a big issue there so I would expect there will still be a change in procedures, but maybe to a lesser extent that there has been now.
On a different note, have you heard of the new bar procedures?...
Caution when you fly into Saudi even with a sealed bar if your next leg is a domestic sector. They confiscate your bar at your port of entry and only return it to you when you depart from your entry airport to a foreign destination. For example flying from Europe into Jeddah and then out again you'll be fine. Flying from Europe to Jeddah, on to Riyadh then out will mean your bar remains in Jeddah...even on a short turnaround.Cheers!
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Thanks for all the suggestions folks, much appreciated.
Mutt - wasn't aware of the 48hr rule for non KSA operators, much appreciated on the heads up. Will certainly start contacting GACA as suggested once Eid is over. I had used 1 KSA operator for one of my flights, but the supply of qualifiable operators is very slim. Hopefully the force of 125 / 135 operations will bring more stability to the region in the market.
Desert Budgie - Glad to hear there is the suggestion that this new GACA chap will be moved on...eventually! Although again today on CFMU there seemed to be more non KSA charter operators performing flights in and out of the region. Perhaps things are already settling down during the post Ramadan rush? I was aware of the bar situation, but I seem to remember at one point GACA implementing this rule previously, then relaxing it? That certainly limits charter operators picking up empty leg deals, unless aircraft are located accordingly.
Thanks once again and please do PM me if you have further advice or hear of any further GACA developments!
Mutt - wasn't aware of the 48hr rule for non KSA operators, much appreciated on the heads up. Will certainly start contacting GACA as suggested once Eid is over. I had used 1 KSA operator for one of my flights, but the supply of qualifiable operators is very slim. Hopefully the force of 125 / 135 operations will bring more stability to the region in the market.
Desert Budgie - Glad to hear there is the suggestion that this new GACA chap will be moved on...eventually! Although again today on CFMU there seemed to be more non KSA charter operators performing flights in and out of the region. Perhaps things are already settling down during the post Ramadan rush? I was aware of the bar situation, but I seem to remember at one point GACA implementing this rule previously, then relaxing it? That certainly limits charter operators picking up empty leg deals, unless aircraft are located accordingly.
Thanks once again and please do PM me if you have further advice or hear of any further GACA developments!
