BizAv airports in Germany- a survey

[Transition]

Hi everyone,

I was asked to write an article for a German aviation magazine about airports in Germany that are available to business aircraft - big players like EDDF or EDDH as well as smaller fields like Schwäbisch Hall or Augsburg. What are your experiences with German airfields when approaching them with a BA aircraft? Is the equipment sufficient? Have you always been handled well? What is missing? Just feel free to give your opinion - I won't quote anybody without prior permission.

Thanks for your help!

[vodka_gorbachev]

Well, I was in couple of "regional" airports in Germany:

– Sigerland
– Augsburg
– Dortmund
– Nuremberg
– Memmingen
– Padeborn

I'm not taking big airports into account like EDDF, EDDM, EDDB, EDDK, EDDL – all experience is just positive. I can't remember any issues. Like German cars – efficient, on-time. Slots some-time can be annoying.

Considering small regionals airports – even easier than big ones, because they normally not busy at all. There are some drawbacks in very small airports like Sigerland, Augsburg – you can't order catering. You should go to a restaurant in order to do so. Once have a delay in Augburg early in the morning, due to de-icing truck was not ready and it took 30 minutes to heat up fluid. But it's very small issues, from almost positive experience.

Equipment – all above regionals airports are fitted with ILS CAT I at lease from one side, and normally non-precision VOR from another.

[Cpt_Schmerzfrei]

Hi Transition,

just a thought -

Although Germany has many (VFR) airfields and relatively speaking many airports, it seems to me that there is a lack of dedicated business aviation airfields. Take a look at Paris Le Bourget or many of the airfields in the London area: these airfields help to make business aviation shine: they are well situated, usually well equipped, and they offer fast access to the aircraft. Where do you find such an airfield in e.g. Berlin?

Cpt

[what next]

Where do you find such an airfield in e.g. Berlin?

Or Munich? Or Hamburg? Or Frankfurt? Just to list some of the real GA unfriendly ones.

[rightbank]

Where do you find such an airfield in e.g. Berlin?

There used to be one-Templehof. Now sadly closed.

[Transition]

Just to list some of the real GA unfriendly ones.

What is it that makes them so GA unfriendly? Costs? Slots? Oder the people themselves?

[MCP_SPD]

Magdeburg/Cochstedt (EDBC). Very friendly place, only had good experiences there.

[INNflight]

It's all politics, and sadly politicians would much rather shut down a perfectly fine airfield to make room for building shopping malls and condos.
The public opinion ain't very favourable either. People like quiet neighborhoods, airports are noisy, and private jets very unnecessary and only for the super-rich. No thank you, nobody needs that.

Germany (Munich, Berlin...) have mostly lost the battle, keep the fight for GA airfields going where you can. Zurich for example - Dubendorf may still not yet be completely lost and maybe even at some point in time take over the GA traffic from Zurich. Not that it will be easy to integrate it in the current ATC system, and again, there's still public opinion, but still...

[what next]

Good morning!

What is it that makes them so GA unfriendly? Costs? Slots? Oder the people themselves?

No, I didn't mean the airports, but the towns themselves are business-aviation-unfriendly. Business aviation is for people who are on such a tight schedule that it pays for them to own or charter their own aircraft. Time is far more important and precious than money. Forcing those people to use big international airports that are an hour's drive from where the business is done takes away most of the advantage business aviation has to offer. Berlin and Munich are the worst in this respect because there used to be excellent "business airfields" right in the middle of town or in the close vicinity which were either shot down (Tempelhof) or restricted to a point that they become almost unusable (Oberpfaffenhofen). And no effort whatsoever is undertaken to develop one of the smaller but suitable airfields in the area into a business airport.

[Kerosene Kraut]

Berlin's Business Aviation field, as somebody was asking above, is Schönhagen if you don't want to go straight to Schönefeld.

Frankfurt's is Egelsbach, or Mainz-Finthen or Söllingen, depends where you go to.

Munich's is Oberpfaffenhofen or Augsburg. Or Manching.

There is a lot of choices. Plenty of more really small airfields all around the country. Plus mil airfields that sometimes can be used by special permission too if you convince their commanding officers.

[what next]

Schönhagen

VFR only, 12t maximum

Egelsbach

VFR only, runway too short for most commercial operations

Oberpfaffenhofen

Severly restricted

Augsburg.

Excellent business airfield. If your business is in Augsburg

Manching

Excellent business airfield. If your business is in Ingolstadt.

[Kerosene Kraut]

These fields actually see quite a bit of business traffic.
If you need bigger fields why not just use the big internatonal airports? Munich is full of bizjets and Schönefeld has quite a few as well. Even Frankfurt has more slots again these days.

Welcome to Special Airport Oberpfaffenhofen

[Kak Klaxon]

What's the point in having a VFR business airport? You going to die/ kill someone.

[Kerosene Kraut]

When needed under IMC you have munich EDDM just 30 miles away anytime. "Obi" is next to the most plush places. Bit like Aspen if you want.

[what next]

If you need bigger fields why not just use the big internatonal airports? Munich is full of bizjets and Schönefeld has quite a few as well.

For lack of alternatives we do use them all the time. But if you read my post above, this is not what our always-short-of-time clients regard business-friendly, because both are about an hour's drive away from town centre. And long delays due to taxi times and big distances to be covered on ground at the airfield. Take London City or even Le Bourget as examples of business-friendly airports for comparison.

[Kerosene Kraut]

So you like to wait for your customers at London City with almost no apron space available?
Berlin had it's Le Bourget with Tempelhof back then.

[Kak Klaxon]

Good Chinese restaurant next to Obi, and its got an ILS and hangar, I am a big fan.

[His dudeness]

So you like to wait for your customers at London City with almost no apron space available?

Sure, at least they got their act together in terms of :

- crew lounge with internet
- Nice facilities (in spite of their obvious space issue)
- apron usage to full extent possible

But I would not like to have to pay the landing nad handling fees everywhere.

So what does a business airport need:

- good facilities especially for crews that often have a long stay
- good IFR procedures (most desirable ILS with GOOD lighting)
- personel willing to go the extra mile
- easy to access aprons with short distances to cover aicraft/terminal
- an easy immigration / customs procedure
- cheap fuel
- hangarage at 'normal' prices

We usually do not need loaders, we do not need high viz vest Gestapo nor other procedures that are unique to one airport....

Go and see EDTY as an example. (with the exemption of the fuel price...)

[what next]

So you like to wait for your customers at London City with almost no apron space available?

This is not about what I like or don't! If my boss can only travel between major international airports with his own aircraft, then he will be better off by using Lufthansa business class. At ten percent of the cost. Even less, because he doesn't have to pay me anymore as well. This is why I want (and need!) business-friendly airfields close to major towns. Not business pilot friendly.

And regarding the EDTY example: Yes, this is about as good as it gets. Pity is only that there is no major city anywhere close. Even Stuttgart is an hour's driving away.

[ewe.lander]

Friedrichshafen - excellent Staff, utterly efficient, and ideal when Zurich won't give you a slot. Down town reasonable priced Hotac, great restaurants and if you have time to kill - visit the Dornier Museum