Challenger crash at KASE
If the tailwind/windshear conditions hold true for a landing on RWY 15 then they had no business being there and trying a second time after their initial missed approach.
That airport is already a hole to start with, never mind having to deal with bad wx conditions, circlings (especially at night) or trying to land with a tailwind that exceeds the manufacturers limits.
Our company policy for KASE is a "DAY VFR" operation only and with a 604 we take a minimum load out of there and go to Denver for a technical stop.
That airport is already a hole to start with, never mind having to deal with bad wx conditions, circlings (especially at night) or trying to land with a tailwind that exceeds the manufacturers limits.
Our company policy for KASE is a "DAY VFR" operation only and with a 604 we take a minimum load out of there and go to Denver for a technical stop.
Last edited by Jet Jockey A4; 6th Jan 2014 at 02:12.
Like I said in the Biz Jet forum...
If the tailwind/windshear conditions hold true for a landing on RWY 15 then they had no business being there and trying a second time after their initial missed approach.
That airport is already a hole to start with, never mind having to deal with bad wx conditions, circlings (especially at night) or trying to land with a tailwind that exceeds the manufacturers limits.
Our company policy for KASE is a "DAY VFR" operation only and with a 604 we take a minimum load out of there and go to Denver for a technical stop.
That airport is already a hole to start with, never mind having to deal with bad wx conditions, circlings (especially at night) or trying to land with a tailwind that exceeds the manufacturers limits.
Our company policy for KASE is a "DAY VFR" operation only and with a 604 we take a minimum load out of there and go to Denver for a technical stop.
Yes it is in a small way...
On the 604/605 they incorporated a small trap door that pops open prior to the main door opening and it is located above the door handle.
It's a bad picture I know but as you can see the handle is within the red stripe. If you look just above the stripe you can see the outline of that small pop out trap door.
The crashed Challenger's door does not have that pop out trap door making it a 601 model.
On the 604/605 they incorporated a small trap door that pops open prior to the main door opening and it is located above the door handle.
It's a bad picture I know but as you can see the handle is within the red stripe. If you look just above the stripe you can see the outline of that small pop out trap door.
The crashed Challenger's door does not have that pop out trap door making it a 601 model.
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4 white PAPI lights and rather long landing.
Fly the PAPI lights or you might have to climb to make it to the runway.
4 white PAPI lights and rather long landing.
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In that case you'd expect to see 4 Red PAPI lights.
I was expecting the illusion, and it still caught me by surprise!
red and white PAPI
Actually the PAPI is set for the designated GS ie 3.0/3.25/3.5 to the touchdown point. Just follow the correct combo of red and white for your acft.
So regardless of the runway gradient or slope, you should follow the PAPI and touchdown at the chosen spot in the windshield.
This may give you a high rate of closure with the ground landing up slope so an early flare may be called for - conversely landing down slope will need a little less flare. In PNG we were routinely landing without aids at runways with up to 13% slope - and on one earthquake relief task for the UN in Irian Jaya, one section of one high DA mountain strip was 25% slope - made for some short landing rolls
And lots of power to make the parking bay for the three point turn required to depart.
So regardless of the runway gradient or slope, you should follow the PAPI and touchdown at the chosen spot in the windshield.
This may give you a high rate of closure with the ground landing up slope so an early flare may be called for - conversely landing down slope will need a little less flare. In PNG we were routinely landing without aids at runways with up to 13% slope - and on one earthquake relief task for the UN in Irian Jaya, one section of one high DA mountain strip was 25% slope - made for some short landing rolls
And lots of power to make the parking bay for the three point turn required to depart.
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I'm actually surprised how many pilots are not able to follow the PAPI lights. Many times during line training I heard from the PF: I'll go below the PAPI on short final for a smoother landing 
Those guys really do not understand the physics of an aircraft... 
By the way:
An earlier glideslope indicator system, the visual approach slope indicator (VASI) is now obsolete and was deleted from Annex 14 in 1995. The VASI only provided guidance down to heights of 60 meters (200 ft) whereas PAPI provides guidance down to flare initiation (typically 15 meters, or 50 ft).
Those guys really do not understand the physics of an aircraft... By the way:
An earlier glideslope indicator system, the visual approach slope indicator (VASI) is now obsolete and was deleted from Annex 14 in 1995. The VASI only provided guidance down to heights of 60 meters (200 ft) whereas PAPI provides guidance down to flare initiation (typically 15 meters, or 50 ft).
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PAPI
The guys in the video seemed to be conscious about the PAPI situation. At about 0:45 the captain comments on 'four red' and then mentions a possible go-around ('vamos al aire'). Unfortunately there is some ATC audio during his comments, so not all is comprehensible.