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Piaggio Avanti

Old 21st Sep 2013, 23:01
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Pilot technique can reduce the noise considerably. You get the flaps up, reduce the props to 1800 RPM, reduce torque to 2000 LBS and climb to 3000' AGL and you will get a lot less complaints before pouring the coal to go full bore.
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 06:30
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Two planes on the ramp a P180 and and a King Air...only on PPRuNe does someone want to fly 100kts slower, 10,000 feet lower, crawl in and out of the cabin, and fly steam guages, burning more fuel, you know, because that is what experienced knowledgable pilots on PRUNE would do.

Honestly I don't even know why I bother logging in...maybe it's to remind myself just how screwed up the industry is right now.
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 08:46
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Ah but teldo. It doesn't do them all at the same time. 100 kts faster = huge burn. Less burn = slower.

And it won't matter anyway when your grounded due woeful support.

Maybe all these experienced people actually know better than you!
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 13:31
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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The King Air hasn't been steam gauge for some time now.
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 13:31
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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The issue is not on the speed of the plane nor its cabin size, it is about its noise. This design is flawed, period. The engineers did not bother. We invite Piaggio test pilots to try to demonstrate a way to fly the plane, in a more environment friendly manner. Not only they did not show up, but they dropped the ball to a poor soul, who found bitterly, that the "noise alleviating procedure" for traffic pattern, would prevent him to land commercially at the said airport.
So far, some operator are mandating their pilots to operate outside the AFM, and wrote a somewhat part B, trying to circumnavigate the outcome. But the scheme is in motion, and Piaggios WILL BE banned at some noise sensitive airport.Snowball effect will do the rest. Tip of the day : do not buy any.

If you want to fly fast get a Falcon, or a Global, or anything without props. If you want to go anywhere else for the years to come : buy a King Air

Last edited by CL300; 23rd Sep 2013 at 13:34.
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 14:54
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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The King Air hasn't been steam gauge for some time now.
Never ever let facts get in the way of a 'good story'....
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 17:26
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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The way I see this, the Avanti is a wonderful aircraft that has not lived up to its full potential.
As mentioned above, It looks good on the ramp, its got a good interior and cruises faster and higher on less fuel than the competion.

Unfortuanately, the manufacturer has not supported the aircraft. For a design this old, I would have expected a new model - the Avant III, Larger overal.
8 Seats and a small galley; 9 including the belted potty.
Improved prop design that produces a pleasant noise that is not annoying.
Props at 1800 rpm??

If this design was taken on by a legacy manufacturer, i'm sure we would see a complete diffference in the number of aircraft out there.

Any takers??
Gulfstream ??

Last edited by JABAG; 23rd Sep 2013 at 17:46.
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 18:39
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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The starships were loud to the people on the ground too.

New KA and P180 are both Collins Pro Line 21.
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 23:06
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
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The problem with the P180 was the buy in cost, not the noise.

They made it work by selling shares, which was found out to be a pyramid scheme.

Great design, just over priced. Plans to put some Williams on the wings are in the works, but the market being what it is, killed the SJ30, another great design, but bad company financing and pilots to slow to step up to high performance corporate aircraft has been problematic. Reminds of the Mu2. A capable aircraft, but an industry full of tards bad mouthed it.

We should be busting the speed of sound right now, but the industry is still stuck in the 1940s. Sucks.
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 23:46
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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The trouble is, Skype beats the speed of sound without even trying.
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Old 24th Sep 2013, 02:13
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Sticking F44's on it won't work, there will not be enough rudder to get it certified.
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Old 24th Sep 2013, 20:01
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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LASJayhawk -

I suggest you crack open a book on aerodynamics or get an MEII - you don't have asymetrical thrust issues on the P180 and certainly they will mount jet engines closer to the airframe - Not that they would need to. Can't remember the last time I stood on a rudder in a jet, but hey, airline guys in Airbus's that have figured out a way to step on a pedal and take the tail off...so depending on the retard they figure might be flying these things...you might be right.
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Old 25th Sep 2013, 07:56
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Do you never land in crosswinds TD

Last edited by stilton; 25th Sep 2013 at 07:56.
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Old 25th Sep 2013, 12:59
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
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He hasn't worked out how to put a crosswind on Flight Sim yet Stilton.
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Old 25th Sep 2013, 14:45
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
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And speaking of crosswinds, that Piggie I heard doing the patterns was grounded with a bend wing for quite a while after havíng suffered a crosswind landing going wrong...
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Old 25th Sep 2013, 16:52
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Telford...
Beech tried the same thing on a B200 (BB-4 IIRC) Hung a pair of jets on the aft fuselage.

Lose an engine at V2 and not enough rudder to keep it straight at that low a speed.......
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Old 25th Sep 2013, 16:57
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Hung a pair of jets on the aft fuselage
You sure ? Only image I have ever seen of a B200 with Jets was one where the Jets were mounted where the PT6s are....on top of the wing.

Have a look here: (PD290)

Beechcraft Super King Air - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Heres a pic:

beech pd290 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Last edited by His dudeness; 25th Sep 2013 at 17:00.
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Old 25th Sep 2013, 17:30
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
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An I sure? Heck I'm not sure what I had for breakfast.

That's BB-1 in the picture, I'm still thinking they tried the aft fuselage on BB-4 but could quite be wrong.... The plane was still in the boneyard at the factory as of a few years ago, I'll check with one of my factory buddies and have him see what's still there.
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Old 26th Sep 2013, 23:31
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
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LAS -

Can't speak to their attempt at a retrofit, but the P180 makes sense. Williams are light, it should work. No doubt some engineering, but if you are making the case that you need more rudder in an asymetrical yaw with a jet vs a Tprop then you need to get some multi training under your belt.

To me it's seems a no brainer, but who knows maybe it's not in the wing or w/b but other factors such as the AF can only go so fast.
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Old 28th Sep 2013, 19:36
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Teldorserious, I take it you are an American with your attitude to retards, sorry pilots! If only everyone was a shit-hot as you.....

Silverknapper sums it up adequately.

CL300's comments on noise are quite true. Heard one in LFMD yesterday, a long time before I saw it.....then again Teldorserious wasn't flying it, so that is the probable cause.
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