German LBA revokes authorization of TRTO
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German LBA revokes authorization of TRTO
On June 20th, the German federal aviation authority LBA revoked the authorization of the TRTO IKON GmbH in Erlangen, near Nuremberg.
Apparently, there have been several cases of fraudulently recorded SIM trainings, landing trainings in the actual aircraft and check rides that never have taken place. They all involve the acquisition of the Bombardier Global Express (BD700) type rating.
As a holder of a Swiss pilot's license submitted his paperwork to get his TRI for the BD700, the Swiss authorities stumbled over discrepancies and notified the LBA.
For example, flights, that have been conducted with paying passengers onboard, were recorded as training flights with multiple approaches, low approaches and overshoots - the OFPs for the flights in question cannot be found any more...
On one day in July 2012, when a check ride has been recorded, neither the applicant nor the examiner actually were present.
In another example in October 2012, landing training involving the actual aircraft (BD700) was recorded at LOTB, an ICAO identifier to which the LBA couldn't associate an existing airport.
The LBA sums up that 'It has to assumed (...) that, in conjunction with the applicant, the instructor, the examiner and the chief flight instructor / accountable manager, the training records have been fabricated in a manner to leave the impression as if the training has been conducted in an orderly fashion.'
IKON wasn't available for a comment. The LBA's speaker was only able to confirm that IKON GmbH isn't an authorized training organization any longer.
Here's the link to an article in German:
Watch out!
Apparently, there have been several cases of fraudulently recorded SIM trainings, landing trainings in the actual aircraft and check rides that never have taken place. They all involve the acquisition of the Bombardier Global Express (BD700) type rating.
As a holder of a Swiss pilot's license submitted his paperwork to get his TRI for the BD700, the Swiss authorities stumbled over discrepancies and notified the LBA.
For example, flights, that have been conducted with paying passengers onboard, were recorded as training flights with multiple approaches, low approaches and overshoots - the OFPs for the flights in question cannot be found any more...
On one day in July 2012, when a check ride has been recorded, neither the applicant nor the examiner actually were present.
In another example in October 2012, landing training involving the actual aircraft (BD700) was recorded at LOTB, an ICAO identifier to which the LBA couldn't associate an existing airport.
The LBA sums up that 'It has to assumed (...) that, in conjunction with the applicant, the instructor, the examiner and the chief flight instructor / accountable manager, the training records have been fabricated in a manner to leave the impression as if the training has been conducted in an orderly fashion.'
IKON wasn't available for a comment. The LBA's speaker was only able to confirm that IKON GmbH isn't an authorized training organization any longer.
Here's the link to an article in German:
Watch out!
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Watch out!
Last edited by what next; 27th Jun 2013 at 12:31.
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how hillarious,
3 years ago I needed the 604 to 605 transition.
One of the options was Ikon...
contacted Herr Dokter Kotcher ( this is how he answered his phone....
) and we agreed we would do a transition course the next Thursday, details to be emailed.
Wednesday came without anything, he didn't answer his phone and I called the flightschool.
my dillema explained, the assistant cursed, " he did it again" turned out he makes deals without telling his staff.
But she would figure out.
Herr Dokter and the rest of the alphabet called 5 minutes later and said he didn't feel like it anymore and he didn't like foreigners anyway!?
I addressed him in German, my fourth language but acceptable and out of respect I talked his language.
Told me my German was **** anyways,.. why can't we talk English, in my book the only language in aviation anyways.
Lost the new job because of this.
Tried to forget this threat to the civilzed world and aviation in particular.
Until, a couple of months later one of my Fo's told me how he got his transition.
He talked to our dear Dr on Skype and got a hardly readable copy of a handbook via Skype IM, please fill out your certificate yourself and within 3 minutes he became qualified on the 605!
This seems to be the typical German way, simulators are costing too much.
Look at their next door neighbor FAI, their FOM, untill recently, had friends within the LBA and everything went over there.
Pretty much every professional pilot in Germany knows how things go over there but the LBA choose to ignore their regular gross infractions of dutytimes.
Connections.
And, Mr Flexjet, they operate 3 Globals....
Stay professional
3 years ago I needed the 604 to 605 transition.
One of the options was Ikon...
contacted Herr Dokter Kotcher ( this is how he answered his phone....
) and we agreed we would do a transition course the next Thursday, details to be emailed.Wednesday came without anything, he didn't answer his phone and I called the flightschool.
my dillema explained, the assistant cursed, " he did it again" turned out he makes deals without telling his staff.
But she would figure out.
Herr Dokter and the rest of the alphabet called 5 minutes later and said he didn't feel like it anymore and he didn't like foreigners anyway!?
I addressed him in German, my fourth language but acceptable and out of respect I talked his language.
Told me my German was **** anyways,.. why can't we talk English, in my book the only language in aviation anyways.
Lost the new job because of this.
Tried to forget this threat to the civilzed world and aviation in particular.
Until, a couple of months later one of my Fo's told me how he got his transition.
He talked to our dear Dr on Skype and got a hardly readable copy of a handbook via Skype IM, please fill out your certificate yourself and within 3 minutes he became qualified on the 605!
This seems to be the typical German way, simulators are costing too much.
Look at their next door neighbor FAI, their FOM, untill recently, had friends within the LBA and everything went over there.
Pretty much every professional pilot in Germany knows how things go over there but the LBA choose to ignore their regular gross infractions of dutytimes.
Connections.
And, Mr Flexjet, they operate 3 Globals....
Stay professional
Last edited by CL605driver; 27th Jun 2013 at 21:35.
N4790P
The LBA sums up that 'It has to assumed (...) that, in conjunction with the applicant, the instructor, the examiner and the chief flight instructor / accountable manager, the training records have been fabricated in a manner to leave the impression as if the training has been conducted in an orderly fashion.'
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This seems to be the typical German way, simulators are costing too much.
So potentially the SFI, HoT and the TRE as well as any involved 'student' will/should face criminal proceedings now in addition to losing their licences?
If they spend the money they saved on their ratings for a good aviation lawyer, they have realistic chances of keeping their licenses - a very good aviation lawyer might even preserve their typeratings. And if they can prove they were drunk at the time they signed the application form for their rating, they may even get away without a fine, because here in Germany you can't be held responsible for things you do while intoxicated
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So potentially the SFI, HoT and the TRE as well as any involved 'student' will/should face criminal proceedings now in addition to losing their licences?
If they spend the money they saved on their ratings for a good aviation lawyer, they have realistic chances of keeping their licenses - a very good aviation lawyer might even preserve their typeratings.
Seems like a good time to get a (genuine) BD700 type rating as quite a few positions will be vacant in the very near future.
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Am disappointed that so many apparently knew about this scam but said nothing allowing unqualified pilots and even examiners to occupy the same airspace.
Gloating here saying that you guys knew all along speaks volumes about you.
Gloating here saying that you guys knew all along speaks volumes about you.
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IKON were bad but the really corrupt guys are at the LBA ! They were aware all the time that this was going on. IKON were very proud of their "close" connection to some in LBA !
An LBA examiner signed off a new TRE on BD700 in return for his own re validation On another aircraft !
An LBA examiner signed off a new TRE on BD700 in return for his own re validation On another aircraft !
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What a beautiful conspiracy theory there Absolute, of course you have prove that the entire LBA conspired to allow untrained and unqualified pilots to fly around.
only came to light sometime after the event.
Whenever you found out, you had the moral duty to report it and not now gloat about how you knew all along.
Aviation safety is in a large chunk based on self policing and depends on us looking out for each other and ourselves. Keeping mum when you are aware of something blatantly illegal and dangerous to us all is not an approach that should be taken lightly.
Some of you guys need to evaluate your attitude towards safety, this industry may well not be for you when you sit idly by when you see others blatantly ignoring rules and procedures that puts all of us in danger.
Again, shame on you.
only came to light sometime after the event.
Aviation safety is in a large chunk based on self policing and depends on us looking out for each other and ourselves. Keeping mum when you are aware of something blatantly illegal and dangerous to us all is not an approach that should be taken lightly.
Some of you guys need to evaluate your attitude towards safety, this industry may well not be for you when you sit idly by when you see others blatantly ignoring rules and procedures that puts all of us in danger.
Again, shame on you.
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cldrvr...Half of the industry is corrupted, the other is waiting to be...Just a matter of time. Everything comes to light on an aftermath of an event or whistle blowers..
This is it.
Next please..
This is it.
Next please..
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Everything comes to light on an aftermath of an event or whistle
blowers..
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Hmmmmm....many moons ago I went through IKONs ATP course and they were pretty strict on the stuff they had control over (as for example the records of attendance in class). I didnīt do any flying there as I held a CPL/IFR at the time, but I can`t say anything bad about their way of teaching and running the school. And I haven`t heard anything before the press release on the "possibilities" that apparently existed. Most likely I just belong to the few that "weren`t in the know"... or maybe that statement is bollocks...?
Funnigly enough I wouldnīt think that Dr.Kotzor - who held "allgemeine Navigation" in my course - is a racist or dislikes foreigners.
I thought his class was top notch.
Not defending him, just telling what my experience with this guy was....
Funnigly enough I wouldnīt think that Dr.Kotzor - who held "allgemeine Navigation" in my course - is a racist or dislikes foreigners.
I thought his class was top notch.
Not defending him, just telling what my experience with this guy was....
Last edited by His dudeness; 30th Jun 2013 at 07:56.
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I'll stick up for the Dr. too - he has always been pleasant, courteous and helpful when I've needed his help arranging training or finding elusive 604 TREs at short notice. There must be more to CL605drvrs' story.
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Well,
Have to agree with CL605driver, my experiences are pretty much the same.
In my case it was a LJ60 to LJ60XR transition, we agreed upon a classdate.
This date came, no further feedback from IKON and I called Kotzor too.
He was plain rude, a reference was made to my nationality, (and we are the good guys!) plans changed, no class but he would send a copy of the manuals instead and how was I going to pay the 2700 Euros?
I was not.
Asked the LBA if this guy was for real, apparently so, cldvr, in Germany you have a liason ("a buddy") within the LBA who you call if you have issues and issues are being dealt with on a personal level is my experience.
The LBA didn't care,he asked me what I expected of him
It is so unprofessional to get ratings in this manner, but if the LBA doesn't care, how and where will you file a complaint?
Go European level?
I went to Bombardier Dallas, spend 4 days in the classroom and 16 hours in the (motion turned off) sim.
Money well spend and I still had to learn a lot more after this real training.
Later in life I heard similair stories of how colleagues got their transition via IKON, you just get a copy of the avionics manual.
Face it, the whole industry is in a bad shape, why waste more energy without results?
I am happy that professionalism seemed have won in this instance.
CK
Have to agree with CL605driver, my experiences are pretty much the same.
In my case it was a LJ60 to LJ60XR transition, we agreed upon a classdate.
This date came, no further feedback from IKON and I called Kotzor too.
He was plain rude, a reference was made to my nationality, (and we are the good guys!) plans changed, no class but he would send a copy of the manuals instead and how was I going to pay the 2700 Euros?
I was not.
Asked the LBA if this guy was for real, apparently so, cldvr, in Germany you have a liason ("a buddy") within the LBA who you call if you have issues and issues are being dealt with on a personal level is my experience.
The LBA didn't care,he asked me what I expected of him
It is so unprofessional to get ratings in this manner, but if the LBA doesn't care, how and where will you file a complaint?
Go European level?
I went to Bombardier Dallas, spend 4 days in the classroom and 16 hours in the (motion turned off) sim.
Money well spend and I still had to learn a lot more after this real training.
Later in life I heard similair stories of how colleagues got their transition via IKON, you just get a copy of the avionics manual.
Face it, the whole industry is in a bad shape, why waste more energy without results?
I am happy that professionalism seemed have won in this instance.
CK
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(and we are the good guys!)
He was plain rude, a reference was made to my nationality,
Anyhow, doesnīt matter any more now...
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Mr Dudeness, no, I am not German, we can't be all perfect!
Some of my best friends are German, I have worked for German companies in the past, no issue for me.
Let's put it on the sarcasm from Dr Kotzor, he blew me off pretty fast.
One point that does amaze me is that in Germany it is (or was since EASA implemented?) possible to perform a LPC on the actual airplane, a take off abort at 40 knots and that is your V1 cut.
In a lot of EASA countries you can only renew your license after a LPC on an approved simulator.
This is not so good for the pilot competition when applying for a job me thinks.
Obviously a renewal on the airplane combined with a ferry flight saves a lot of money.
Would be good if we get one European rule on this, or did we allready?
But having said all this, German income paid for part of my house, and a couple of beers, so nothing wrong there!
Happy landings
Some of my best friends are German, I have worked for German companies in the past, no issue for me.
Let's put it on the sarcasm from Dr Kotzor, he blew me off pretty fast.
One point that does amaze me is that in Germany it is (or was since EASA implemented?) possible to perform a LPC on the actual airplane, a take off abort at 40 knots and that is your V1 cut.
In a lot of EASA countries you can only renew your license after a LPC on an approved simulator.
This is not so good for the pilot competition when applying for a job me thinks.
Obviously a renewal on the airplane combined with a ferry flight saves a lot of money.
Would be good if we get one European rule on this, or did we allready?
But having said all this, German income paid for part of my house, and a couple of beers, so nothing wrong there!
Happy landings
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Mr Dudeness, no, I am not German, we can't be all perfect!
Some of my best friends are German, I have worked for German companies in the past, no issue for me.
Some of my best friends are German, I have worked for German companies in the past, no issue for me.
I have worked for German companies and I had issues with at least one of them...
CK, I was merely trying to make a joke... being German, probably, not my strongest capacity...
Last edited by His dudeness; 5th Jul 2013 at 07:37.
