Lydd fuelling refusal without decal
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: london
Age: 60
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lydd fuelling refusal without decal
Saw this on the Lydd website whilst planning a fuel stop.
*** NOTICE ****
Please be advised that as of Saturday 1st September 2012 all aircraft will require an appropriate Fuel Grade Decal clearly displayed adjacent to the aircraft refuelling point. If the aircraft does not display the appropriate Decal our Ground Operations Team will be unable to carry out your refuel request.
This policy is being introduced by Senior Management to further reduce any possibility of aircraft "misfuelling" with the obvious potential consequences.
If you require Fuel Grade Decals, they will be available for purchase from our Customer Services Desk @ £1.80 each .
Anyone had experience of this? Is there something about Lydd refuellers that makes this necessary or is this middle (sorry, Senior) management at its worst? or was there an incident and this is the knee jerk reaction ?
This attitude was enough to make me reconsider my options and re route. I wonder what other rules like this exist there. In their risk assessment I wonder if they considered the scenario of someone being so hacked off with this bit of pettyness that they decide to depart without refueling and cut it fine on reaching their next stop, or the consequences of irritated pilots.
Has anyone ever been "mis-fuelled" anywhere and if so was there a decal ?
*** NOTICE ****
Please be advised that as of Saturday 1st September 2012 all aircraft will require an appropriate Fuel Grade Decal clearly displayed adjacent to the aircraft refuelling point. If the aircraft does not display the appropriate Decal our Ground Operations Team will be unable to carry out your refuel request.
This policy is being introduced by Senior Management to further reduce any possibility of aircraft "misfuelling" with the obvious potential consequences.
If you require Fuel Grade Decals, they will be available for purchase from our Customer Services Desk @ £1.80 each .
Anyone had experience of this? Is there something about Lydd refuellers that makes this necessary or is this middle (sorry, Senior) management at its worst? or was there an incident and this is the knee jerk reaction ?
This attitude was enough to make me reconsider my options and re route. I wonder what other rules like this exist there. In their risk assessment I wonder if they considered the scenario of someone being so hacked off with this bit of pettyness that they decide to depart without refueling and cut it fine on reaching their next stop, or the consequences of irritated pilots.
Has anyone ever been "mis-fuelled" anywhere and if so was there a decal ?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: chances are, not at home
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and whats wrong with the owner/pilot standing next to the plane and saying 'yes, it takes avgas'? Are we not to be believed?
If we are so clueless, whats to say we buy the right decal?!
If we are so clueless, whats to say we buy the right decal?!
and whats wrong with the owner/pilot standing next to the plane and saying 'yes, it takes avgas'? Are we not to be believed?
If we are so clueless, whats to say we buy the right decal?!
If we are so clueless, whats to say we buy the right decal?!
This happens with shocking regularity with cars so don't see why someone renting a piper for a day should be any different ;-)
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: ME
Posts: 5,502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Had this happen in Doha in a jet, so not exclusive to Lydd, problem is, what right to i have to attach a decal to an aircraft when that decal isn't produced by the manufacturer and not detailed in the manufacturers manuals? Have the decals being distributed by fuel companies undergone high speed testing at high altitudes and cold temperatures? Are we invalidating the aircraft insurance by applying such a decal?
I did have fun trying to get the fueler in Doha sign a liability letter for attaching a decal to the aircraft without a "no technical objection" letter from the manufacturer.
Mutt
I did have fun trying to get the fueler in Doha sign a liability letter for attaching a decal to the aircraft without a "no technical objection" letter from the manufacturer.
Mutt
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: london
Age: 60
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mutt - that wouldn't surprise me in Doha ! I'd agree that placarding a fuel tank is not a matter to be undertaken lightly actually.
I hear the sense in the possibility of confusion with diesel/A1 powered SEP but I'm guessing such aircraft are well placarded for that very reason and have little need of this rule. On the other hand a Citabria owner might have very little desire to have some crappy label done in powerpoint with god knows what adhesive on being stuck to his fabric.
Seems to me though that airport management aren't the right people to be the placard police and its somewhere between arse covering and ineffectiveness. If they really cared a refresher/toolbox talk for the fuelers would be the way to ensure attention. If it really is about safety rather than back watching , they could ask pilots to explicitly tell them what grade they wanted or sign the fuel chit before fueling.
And yes, why would we be more trusted to buy the right decal than check the fuel itself?
I hear the sense in the possibility of confusion with diesel/A1 powered SEP but I'm guessing such aircraft are well placarded for that very reason and have little need of this rule. On the other hand a Citabria owner might have very little desire to have some crappy label done in powerpoint with god knows what adhesive on being stuck to his fabric.
Seems to me though that airport management aren't the right people to be the placard police and its somewhere between arse covering and ineffectiveness. If they really cared a refresher/toolbox talk for the fuelers would be the way to ensure attention. If it really is about safety rather than back watching , they could ask pilots to explicitly tell them what grade they wanted or sign the fuel chit before fueling.
And yes, why would we be more trusted to buy the right decal than check the fuel itself?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ASN Aircraft accident Douglas C-47B-20-DK (DC-3) C-GSCA Saint Louis-Lambert International Airport, MO (STL)
Very good friend lost his life in this accident - he was with the aircraft when they began fueling - being winter he went inside while they finished refueling.
The refueler who was new - the avgas truck kept stalling on him, so he took it back and got a JetA1 truck to finish refueling.
Nobody noticed the meter readings on the fuel ticket didn't match - before the 3rd take-off - they contacted the FBO to confirm they received avgas - they checked the metered ticket (which didn't add up) and confirmed the avgas truck had been used to refuel the aircraft.
Also had a Aero Commander piston fueled with Jet A1 !!! Fuel was checked and discovered.
Very good friend lost his life in this accident - he was with the aircraft when they began fueling - being winter he went inside while they finished refueling.
The refueler who was new - the avgas truck kept stalling on him, so he took it back and got a JetA1 truck to finish refueling.
Nobody noticed the meter readings on the fuel ticket didn't match - before the 3rd take-off - they contacted the FBO to confirm they received avgas - they checked the metered ticket (which didn't add up) and confirmed the avgas truck had been used to refuel the aircraft.
Also had a Aero Commander piston fueled with Jet A1 !!! Fuel was checked and discovered.
I'd have to wonder whether a refueller who is so dozy as to not notice he'd replaced an Avgas truck with a Jet A truck *and* not noticed the different smell & feel while pumping, would notice a little placard next to the cap.
As for Lydd: What about the Kingair I fly? It's approved to use Avgas instead of Jet A**. If I need avgas in it for some reason and the placard specifies Jet A are they going to refuse to supply the fuel?
**Yes, I know there are maintenance penalties but that's not the point.
As for Lydd: What about the Kingair I fly? It's approved to use Avgas instead of Jet A**. If I need avgas in it for some reason and the placard specifies Jet A are they going to refuse to supply the fuel?
**Yes, I know there are maintenance penalties but that's not the point.
Which Fuel
Guys,
The simple solution to this very real problem that I used to use was to give the fueler a piece of paper requesting the fuel upload which had a/c type, Reg, fuel type, quantity, my name and signature. This gave them all they needed. My actions were prompted after I saw a Golden Eagle pilot ask for fuel, the FBO radioed the fuelers and asked for fuel to the Golden Eagle and the fueler turned up with the A1 bowser. I saw it and stopped it fortunately but then decided to make sure my requests were more specific.
I agree that we should not be sticking decals all over the place. I once persuaded the airport management of a big airport to give the FBO and the refuelers copies of the forms I had generated for regular use.
If we request the uplift in writing then that should be enough for most places. Of course you still have to check that they actually put in what you asked for.
Don't assume - Check
MM
The simple solution to this very real problem that I used to use was to give the fueler a piece of paper requesting the fuel upload which had a/c type, Reg, fuel type, quantity, my name and signature. This gave them all they needed. My actions were prompted after I saw a Golden Eagle pilot ask for fuel, the FBO radioed the fuelers and asked for fuel to the Golden Eagle and the fueler turned up with the A1 bowser. I saw it and stopped it fortunately but then decided to make sure my requests were more specific.
I agree that we should not be sticking decals all over the place. I once persuaded the airport management of a big airport to give the FBO and the refuelers copies of the forms I had generated for regular use.
If we request the uplift in writing then that should be enough for most places. Of course you still have to check that they actually put in what you asked for.
Don't assume - Check
MM
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: london, UK
Age: 57
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a discussion about this in a CJ a few years ago - they were refusing to refuel me without stickers by the overwing caps. Helpfully, they offered to give me a couple. We put them on and started fuelling. When the fueller lifted the nozzle out a dribble of fuel spilt over the nice new sticker. The nice black lettering promptly dissolved and some dribbled into the tank.
oh how we laughed..
oh how we laughed..
