King Air Runup - In Reality
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King Air Runup - In Reality
Hi Dear King Air Guys,
It's time to confess: do you go through all the runup items (governors, autofeather, etc.) before every takeoff? With all those vibrations, shaking, noise and wear and tear on your plane? Even if there is a long queue behind you at a major airport? With the boss and his guests on board? I know, I know it is in the AFM. But in reality, do you have some shortcuts or own, simplified procedure?
Appreciate your replies,
b
It's time to confess: do you go through all the runup items (governors, autofeather, etc.) before every takeoff? With all those vibrations, shaking, noise and wear and tear on your plane? Even if there is a long queue behind you at a major airport? With the boss and his guests on board? I know, I know it is in the AFM. But in reality, do you have some shortcuts or own, simplified procedure?
Appreciate your replies,
b
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Any King Air checklist I have ever seen pretty clearly allows for pilot discretion on the items you cite, and others, after the first flight of the day. If you choose to do those items on every flight then that is an operational decision on your or your flight department's part and not necessarily an AFM/POH requirement.
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Agree above. Mainly first flight of day. Though in some of the shadier parts of the world I've seen certain items ignored away from home. A good example being the FSOV check before start, given the propensity for some part numbers to freeze on the closed position.
It's amazing how little time they take with a bit of practice though.
It's amazing how little time they take with a bit of practice though.
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Yes. Because when you take off and your autofeather doesn't work everyone on the plane dies.
The fact that this has to be explained to professional pilots is just beyond amazingly stupid and belies what's going on in the industry right now.
The fact that this has to be explained to professional pilots is just beyond amazingly stupid and belies what's going on in the industry right now.
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Teldorserious, a little overreactive and general too, IMO. I am totally for all required checks to be done, however a failed auto-feather system should not result in your predicted outcome as long as the pilot can manage the situation correctly.
Balaton,
Your question is a good sensible and one and just to help your understanding when managing a New B200 for a few years I always did the run up checks and allowed the engines to idle for 1 min before shutting down as per the flight manual. I used to get slightly better fuel burn than other aircraft I was aware of. Also someone I knew never did the checks in the KA he managed and had to have a full overhaul on one engine before the mid life hotsection was due due to bearing wear.
In addition doing the checks effectively changes the oil in the propeller control mechanism which means the 'cold' oil has been flushed through with warm oil before the takeoff run which would otherwise be the first time the pitch change mechanism is used on the trip thus possibly reducing long term wear and thermal shock.
I also never selected reverse below 60kts which was the unofficial advice of my FS instructor/Beechcraft and P&W rep. My propellers remained in good condition. Although I did use the full flight envelope of the engine whist some people do advise keeping the temp below 700 in flight.
Overall I believe in doing the checks, never reversing the aircraft to park and allowing the engines to run down before shutdown whist using the full flight envelope.
I hope this is a useful view for you,
MM
Your question is a good sensible and one and just to help your understanding when managing a New B200 for a few years I always did the run up checks and allowed the engines to idle for 1 min before shutting down as per the flight manual. I used to get slightly better fuel burn than other aircraft I was aware of. Also someone I knew never did the checks in the KA he managed and had to have a full overhaul on one engine before the mid life hotsection was due due to bearing wear.
In addition doing the checks effectively changes the oil in the propeller control mechanism which means the 'cold' oil has been flushed through with warm oil before the takeoff run which would otherwise be the first time the pitch change mechanism is used on the trip thus possibly reducing long term wear and thermal shock.
I also never selected reverse below 60kts which was the unofficial advice of my FS instructor/Beechcraft and P&W rep. My propellers remained in good condition. Although I did use the full flight envelope of the engine whist some people do advise keeping the temp below 700 in flight.
Overall I believe in doing the checks, never reversing the aircraft to park and allowing the engines to run down before shutdown whist using the full flight envelope.
I hope this is a useful view for you,
MM
Inop autofeather shouldn't be an excuse to crash when one burner goes to shavasana mode.
Usually there are VmcA increments and/or max mass limitations when it's inop but it's still perfectly dispatchable.
Usually there are VmcA increments and/or max mass limitations when it's inop but it's still perfectly dispatchable.
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Doing full systems tests first flight of the day makes sense. Any full/partial systems tests for any particular reason on consecutive trip the same day - why not. BUT just because you run a systems test doesn't mean that the systems can't fail when a failure happens.
Most importantly - what the aircraft manufacture has written in the AFM/OM/FM should of course be followed. As a professional pilot one should know that he is not better than those test pilots who worked out the numbers and the engineers who constructed the systems.
If there's doubt - there's no doubt.
Most importantly - what the aircraft manufacture has written in the AFM/OM/FM should of course be followed. As a professional pilot one should know that he is not better than those test pilots who worked out the numbers and the engineers who constructed the systems.
If there's doubt - there's no doubt.
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Hi All,
Many thanks for your replies, most of your points are taken and will be considered.
Miles Magister: appreciate your very good points. I was not aware of these warm-up considerations in relation to pretakeoff checks.
Cheers,
b
Many thanks for your replies, most of your points are taken and will be considered.
Miles Magister: appreciate your very good points. I was not aware of these warm-up considerations in relation to pretakeoff checks.
Cheers,
b
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You guys aren't very sharp. First if belies you guys haven't flown Tprops single engine, secondly it belies that you don't understand certfication standards. No one puts AF on an aircraft for fun and games. It's there because the FAA required it to be there. If you knew why, then you would check your AF.
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ahhh, the ultimate Skygod spoke.
Good point.
Even the FAA MMEL says "C" item... May be inoperative provided:
a) Aircraft is not modified with STC SA2307CE, and
b) Aircraft is not equipped with Four Bladed Propellers.
Back to you, Master of flying....
What happens on the Kingairs with no autofeather fitted? Glad you're not flying those!
Even the FAA MMEL says "C" item... May be inoperative provided:
a) Aircraft is not modified with STC SA2307CE, and
b) Aircraft is not equipped with Four Bladed Propellers.
Back to you, Master of flying....
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I've got plenty of multi engine turbo prop. time and what I do KNOW is that its not God damn rocket science to feather a propeller - if you can't handle that, you should just go back to your office job and fly the latest flight simulator version, where you can do a re-boot! Autofeather - wooow - big deal. Give me a break.
Do what the manual says and what the situational awareness says its right - PILOT ****.
The initial question is a very good one - what do PILOTs acutally do, on the King Airs at the end of the day. To what I recall we would do all the checks FFOTD. This was back in 97-98 EU reg.
Do what the manual says and what the situational awareness says its right - PILOT ****.
The initial question is a very good one - what do PILOTs acutally do, on the King Airs at the end of the day. To what I recall we would do all the checks FFOTD. This was back in 97-98 EU reg.
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I'm still waiting for a WHY AF is installed. Yeager thinks it's an extra pilot to feather the prop, and dudeness has no idea, just reads the checklist....WHY gentleman. The WHY is the difference between a guy that reads checklist and a captain that has to know these things.
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and dudeness has no idea, just reads the checklist
Thanks for enlightening me.
Just for the record, an MMEL / MEL is NOT a checklist. But you knew that, didn´t you?
Now, troll, fukc off to MS FS land.
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I'm still waiting for a WHY AF is installed
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A working AF reduces VMCa . This is reflected in AFM, where also TO distance will change accordingly between a dispatch with AF working and AF not working, due to different VMCa
The TO speeds and distances based on a working AF are lower than for the same a/c with the AF not working –can be even 20 KIAS.
Knowing that AF work, allows the scheduling of lower TO speeds , and use of shorter runways.
In order to ‘know’ the functionality f the systems , the manufacturer/CAA/FAA can require a check every flight , or every day , or every xxx something, and if you need to use the lower speed schedule, you need to do the AF test as requested by the manufacturer
The TO speeds and distances based on a working AF are lower than for the same a/c with the AF not working –can be even 20 KIAS.
Knowing that AF work, allows the scheduling of lower TO speeds , and use of shorter runways.
In order to ‘know’ the functionality f the systems , the manufacturer/CAA/FAA can require a check every flight , or every day , or every xxx something, and if you need to use the lower speed schedule, you need to do the AF test as requested by the manufacturer