My next aircraft
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My next aircraft
I'm a CPL (VFR only) pilot, and in several months I'll be a CPL IR-ME MEP pilot, when I complete my training.
I'll change my aircraft from a 172 to another one.
I'm in the dreaming phase of the research, the most pleasant one, so my budget is unlimited (yet).
I don't want a jet (some airfields I like forbid jets), so it won't be a C510, although I like that aircraft very much.
I'd like to be able to operate from a SL 700 metres runway.
I'd like to be able to use my aircraft for a sight seeing flight in VFR on Sunday afternoon, but I can change my mind, after all, there's always a flight school/club willing to rent an aircraft, but it would be a shame to miss an opportunity to practice handling on a regular basis, as most other flights would be IFR with Auto Pilot.
I need a Jet A1 aircraft, so that I can refuel at airfields where Avgas is not available, unless tanks are big enough for the return trip.
I don't need a huge payload, most flights would be solo, some with my wife and some luggage
Typical mission would be 400 NM solo for business, with a return trip at night, to an Airfield without AVGAS.(*)
Other missions would be 600 to 1000NM with my wife and some (not much) luggage.
I want the maximum bad weather protection/ability: I fly from London ( freezing conditions from September to June), so FIKI seems to be a must (*)
I'd like a twin, but I can change my mind.
I don't want a DA42 (my entire family says it's ugly).
What would be your choice?
I'll change my aircraft from a 172 to another one.
I'm in the dreaming phase of the research, the most pleasant one, so my budget is unlimited (yet).
I don't want a jet (some airfields I like forbid jets), so it won't be a C510, although I like that aircraft very much.
I'd like to be able to operate from a SL 700 metres runway.
I'd like to be able to use my aircraft for a sight seeing flight in VFR on Sunday afternoon, but I can change my mind, after all, there's always a flight school/club willing to rent an aircraft, but it would be a shame to miss an opportunity to practice handling on a regular basis, as most other flights would be IFR with Auto Pilot.
I need a Jet A1 aircraft, so that I can refuel at airfields where Avgas is not available, unless tanks are big enough for the return trip.
I don't need a huge payload, most flights would be solo, some with my wife and some luggage
Typical mission would be 400 NM solo for business, with a return trip at night, to an Airfield without AVGAS.(*)
Other missions would be 600 to 1000NM with my wife and some (not much) luggage.
I want the maximum bad weather protection/ability: I fly from London ( freezing conditions from September to June), so FIKI seems to be a must (*)
I'd like a twin, but I can change my mind.
I don't want a DA42 (my entire family says it's ugly).
What would be your choice?
Last edited by 172510; 11th Feb 2013 at 20:17.
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Definetly agree with Antoine, the TBM 850 seems like an amazing plane. never had the chance to fly it but from what I've heard and read it's the plane you want to go for.
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With the unlimited budget that you have, I'd definitely be going for a twin because two is better than one having flown with the luxury of four engines (big ones) ... I can say that 4 is better than 2 :-)
Also if you're flying ifr at night you really want the second engine despite what the sales man tells you engines do fail! You don't want that at night in a single in IFR....not cool... or over large amounts of H2O also not cool....
My choice would be a B200 not cheap but a sweet ride safe and tested Beechcraft got it soooo right with that bird...also it will get you in to the types of fields you want to go.. It has a bit more performance than a C172....
I'm not a sales man!
Good luck with your search,
Happy Landings!
Pete77
Also if you're flying ifr at night you really want the second engine despite what the sales man tells you engines do fail! You don't want that at night in a single in IFR....not cool... or over large amounts of H2O also not cool....
My choice would be a B200 not cheap but a sweet ride safe and tested Beechcraft got it soooo right with that bird...also it will get you in to the types of fields you want to go.. It has a bit more performance than a C172....
I'm not a sales man!
Good luck with your search,
Happy Landings!
Pete77
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I suggest that you have a word with your insurance company to establish what minimum flight experience, initial and recurrent training they will require and at what cost.
I suspect that for probably the first 50 hr they will require you to fly with a suitably qualified pilot.
I suspect that for probably the first 50 hr they will require you to fly with a suitably qualified pilot.
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I would say, with your level of IFR inexperience, number one priority is a modern user friendly IFR panel, with an ultra reliable autopilot. So older/cheaper king-airs and commanders may be out - Single pilot IFR is intensely demanding - I know.
Ironically you have ruled out the bird I would have chosen. I actually think it has a hawkish appeal.
Ironically you have ruled out the bird I would have chosen. I actually think it has a hawkish appeal.
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I would say King Air or PC12, but can see how they may be somewhat over the top for lower experience, and also they don't fit the VFR sightseeing category very well.
How about a good used Cessna 310 or 340?
Otherwise maybe a Piper Meridian or something similar, but that's single engine again.
How about a good used Cessna 310 or 340?
Otherwise maybe a Piper Meridian or something similar, but that's single engine again.
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C90GT, PC12NG or Glass converted Turbo Commander. The turbo commander will perform better than the others but they are old; That said, you do have an unlimited budget and my money would be on a renaissance upgrade. The PC12NG will look after you and it does make the job of flying easy. There is always the chance that she could go quiet but it is very survivable over land with smart view and remember, the other two are not designed to crash.
I'd be vary wary with the path you're going down. All three have the potential to turn around and kill a freshly minted IFR pilot who doesn't respect the performance and limitation. Be smart, don't cut corners, don't be a tight arse, respect your supervising pilot and good luck.
I'd be vary wary with the path you're going down. All three have the potential to turn around and kill a freshly minted IFR pilot who doesn't respect the performance and limitation. Be smart, don't cut corners, don't be a tight arse, respect your supervising pilot and good luck.
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Right. Night, IFR, Jet A-1, 400 nm return, decent autopilot, best ice-protection, 700 metres sea-level:
Lightly loaded Cessna Conquest I / Baby King Air / or what Adam said, Commander. Pay an experienced pilot to fly with you and keep an eye on you for the first bit. Turbines can actually be easier than complex piston twins, I found, anyway. (try the C340 single-pilot IFR, that's eight levers you're faffing with just for the engines and the thing isn't really appreciably slower around the circuit than a B200) In order for the project to become massively cheaper you'd have to axe at least the Jet A-1 requirement. If you did you'd have a welter of Barons, Senecas, 310's etc. to choose from, getting cheaper by the day they are, too. I also think that D42-thingy looks heinous, but then tastes differ.
Always fun, these 'let's choose an aircraft' threads!
Lightly loaded Cessna Conquest I / Baby King Air / or what Adam said, Commander. Pay an experienced pilot to fly with you and keep an eye on you for the first bit. Turbines can actually be easier than complex piston twins, I found, anyway. (try the C340 single-pilot IFR, that's eight levers you're faffing with just for the engines and the thing isn't really appreciably slower around the circuit than a B200) In order for the project to become massively cheaper you'd have to axe at least the Jet A-1 requirement. If you did you'd have a welter of Barons, Senecas, 310's etc. to choose from, getting cheaper by the day they are, too. I also think that D42-thingy looks heinous, but then tastes differ.
Always fun, these 'let's choose an aircraft' threads!
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I think you'll find he was referring to manual waste-gates, not cowl flaps. I didn't think the C340 had them but there sure are a few larger twins with them.
You just get used to where to put the waste gate for take off then limit the MP with the throttle, then reduce the waste gate and increase the throttle to maintain correct MP at WOT after gear retraction. It means you have to make 6 engine adjustments within a minute or so after take off. Same plane with turbines, 2 engine adjustments within 5 minutes after take off.
You just get used to where to put the waste gate for take off then limit the MP with the throttle, then reduce the waste gate and increase the throttle to maintain correct MP at WOT after gear retraction. It means you have to make 6 engine adjustments within a minute or so after take off. Same plane with turbines, 2 engine adjustments within 5 minutes after take off.
If your budget is healthy why not spend some time as a working (and paid) CPL in the right seat of something old that flogs around in all weather day and night?
The experience and knowledge you gain over a couple of thousand hours will be the best safety benefit you can give your family. You will learn about flying and get a 'heads up' about aircraft ownership and who you can and cannot trust in this industry. It is likely your choice in aircraft type will change as you gain experience and as you do you can hire increasingly complex aircraft and take on more complex trips. Hopefully your family will grow with you in the pursuit of private flying.
Moving on from the thread drift: my top three choices are C441, PC12 and B200.
I would prefer modern rather than old. A Conquest with -10 engines & glass cockpit over the original, PC12NG over the Legacy and a Pro Line King Air over the Classic.
In my opinion the C441 is more enjoyable to fly, the PC12 is a delight because it does everything so well & is continuously being developed. In contrast, the B200 is disappointing because of little product development over the years. The King Air is still a reasonable and honest airframe and the Rudder Boost and real Auto Feather are just great.
When it comes to choosing, in my book, it comes down the the quality of initial and recurrent training you have access to. If you don't have access to good and continuing simulator based training in an aircraft type, then cross it off your list.
Having said all that, I'd settle for a sunny, summers day and a Chippy
The experience and knowledge you gain over a couple of thousand hours will be the best safety benefit you can give your family. You will learn about flying and get a 'heads up' about aircraft ownership and who you can and cannot trust in this industry. It is likely your choice in aircraft type will change as you gain experience and as you do you can hire increasingly complex aircraft and take on more complex trips. Hopefully your family will grow with you in the pursuit of private flying.
Moving on from the thread drift: my top three choices are C441, PC12 and B200.
I would prefer modern rather than old. A Conquest with -10 engines & glass cockpit over the original, PC12NG over the Legacy and a Pro Line King Air over the Classic.
In my opinion the C441 is more enjoyable to fly, the PC12 is a delight because it does everything so well & is continuously being developed. In contrast, the B200 is disappointing because of little product development over the years. The King Air is still a reasonable and honest airframe and the Rudder Boost and real Auto Feather are just great.
When it comes to choosing, in my book, it comes down the the quality of initial and recurrent training you have access to. If you don't have access to good and continuing simulator based training in an aircraft type, then cross it off your list.
Having said all that, I'd settle for a sunny, summers day and a Chippy
Last edited by pithblot; 13th Feb 2013 at 06:41.
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Correct Mr Tinstaafl. But as opposed to most little piston twins the C340 has massively effective cowl flaps and the engines won't take kindly to those cowls being mismanaged, another difference to all the also-rans is that the C340 will usually be descending from a higher cruising-level, being pressurised, and will therefore be more vulnerable to cooling in the longer descent.
The honourable Pithblot (best handle on Proone
) writes truth from beginning to end of his post, methinks. Including the bit about the Chippy.
The honourable Pithblot (best handle on Proone
) writes truth from beginning to end of his post, methinks. Including the bit about the Chippy.
Last edited by Doodlebug; 13th Feb 2013 at 08:15.