Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc.
Reload this Page >

Big Redundancies Coming at Netjets?

Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc. The place for discussion of issues related to corporate, Ag and GA aviation. If you're a professional pilot and don't fly for the airlines then try here.

Big Redundancies Coming at Netjets?

Old 10th Oct 2012, 18:47
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: glasgow, uk
Posts: 2
Big Redundancies Coming at Netjets?

Found this in a pilot lounge:

Please find below details of the launch of a Redundancy Consultation for Pilots in Command (PICs) which I have just announced to all affected pilots.

A revised gateway policy reflecting these changes will be circulated to all crew members today and comes into force with immediate effect. From today all permanent gateway moves will be suspended for the duration of the consultation period.

I fully recognise that this is difficult news. However in such challenging global conditions, this is a necessary step in order for the company to remain competitive, and I trust that I can continue to rely upon your professionalism to keep the NetJets spirit going through the challenging period ahead.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

Dear Colleagues,

As you are all aware, NetJets Europe has over the last few years faced unprecedented market conditions.

The prolonged downturn in the economy has led to a fall in demand for business aviation. In the circumstances, we have had to look at whatever steps we can take to control and reduce our own costs to safeguard the competitiveness of our business.

Currently, we employ 780 pilots of whom 529 are pilots-in-command (PICs) and 251 are seconds-in-command (SICs). Our assessment is that, whilst we do not have any excess of SICs (and they are not therefore affected by this proposal), we need to reduce the total number of PICs by 128.

In addressing this matter, we have to take account of another issue facing the business which is a significant change in European social security regulations. As you are aware from previous communications, the current position is that under EU law the UK system of social security contributions applies to crew employed by NetJets Management Limited (NJML). However, a new European regulation that has come into force now affects the social security regime applicable to crew based upon the country in which their gateway is located. We estimate that based on current crew levels and social security rates, these changes will cost the business an additional 6.3m Euros per year in employer contributions.

If the necessary reduction in the number of PICs cannot be achieved through voluntary redundancy, then the proposal is to select PICs for compulsory redundancy based first on the employer social security rates of their gateway country and secondly, where employees have gateways in the same country, by reference to their salary costs. Therefore, French and Belgian gateway PIC's will be first to go. It is proposed that PICs who are made compulsorily redundant would receive their contractual notice and a redundancy payment calculated in accordance with UK law but not any enhanced severance package.

In addition to the proposals outlined above, we have decided that, while gateways in the following countries will remain open for PICs and SICs already operating from those gateways, they will be closed to new moves:
doggedpilot is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2012, 22:01
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 4,760
If the necessary reduction in the number of PICs cannot be achieved through voluntary redundancy, then the proposal is to select PICs for compulsory redundancy based first on the employer social security rates of their gateway country and secondly, where employees have gateways in the same country, by reference to their salary costs. Therefore, French and Belgian gateway PIC's will be first to go.
Sounds a lot like a hoax to me.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2012, 22:56
  #3 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,027
If it is a hoax it appears to have been a very well thought out one? Had it been released on 1st April then yes, an 'FO's Revenge' type of thing. Are Netjets pilots self employed? It would be interesting to know what the laws of the respective lands have to say about the method chosen for selecting compulsory redundancy too.
parabellum is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2012, 00:00
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: US
Posts: 120
Hoax?

I don't think so. You will notice seniority has not been mentioned in this writeup. That is typical US style management of course. Loyalty to a company is rewarded with a kick up the ****.
screwballburling is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2012, 03:35
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: here and there, mostly there...
Posts: 331
...

Serious business guys and girls.

I hope that all the pilots involved will find a new job real soon.
Must give you guys a lot of stress...

Hang in there!
N.
natops is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2012, 04:08
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: on the move
Age: 50
Posts: 866
Netjets china will need a fair few pilots, there AOC is being processed now.If you like the Tate of noodles......the Zhuhai base might be the place for u!
Flying Mechanic is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2012, 15:30
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1
It's even worse... They are targeting mainly French and Belgian Captains.



"Our proposal is to reduce the number of PICs employed by NJML from 529 to 401, i.e. a reduction of 128.
We therefore propose to offer voluntary redundancy to PICs with gateways in the six countries with the highest employer social security rates. These are listed below in descending order (i.e. of the six countries France has the highest rate and Hungary the lowest):

Country / Number of PICs with gateways in that country as at 5 October 2012
France /105
Belgium /61
Czech Republic /2
Sweden /9
Italy /10
Hungary /1"
AngryPilot is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2012, 17:52
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Right hand seat
Posts: 89
Dogged pilot,

"Found this in a pilot lounge:"

was it left visible on an open computer page or printed out? Just curious as to the provenence!
Mike Oxbig is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2012, 18:34
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: MAN
Posts: 768
Netjets is just responding to the Socialist government in France. If you want to have a go at anyone, send Hollande an email.

NJE cannot be expected to carry French pilots when their cost have increased by 6Mn a year.
cldrvr is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2012, 18:39
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: MAN
Posts: 768
Loyalty to a company is rewarded with a kick up the ****.
You are venting your frustration in the wrong direction. NJE is in the business of making money, not providing employment for those who are loyal or buy donuts on a Monday.

When the cost of employment goes up for one part of the company, any company, American or not, will cut costs it just happens to be French pilots today.
cldrvr is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2012, 19:21
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 53
Posts: 2,271
You are venting your frustration in the wrong direction. NJE is in the business of making money, not providing employment for those who are loyal or buy donuts on a Monday.

When the cost of employment goes up for one part of the company, any company, American or not, will cut costs it just happens to be French pilots today.
Whilst this seems todays fashion, I was most impressed with NJE when they offered their packages 3 years ago in order to make it not too hard for the crews...IMO - I´m oldfashioned, I know - if I were Mr.NetJets, I´d TALK to the guys concerned first, before I slash their jobs. Maybe some of them would like to move and keep their jobs ?

Of course, we can throw everything over board that our fathers and grandfathers fought for and do as the capital pleases, the question is: is this a world we want to really live in ?


Good luck to all the guys in question...
His dudeness is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2012, 20:06
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 263
@ His dudeness: 100% spot on.
733driver is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2012, 03:30
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: US
Posts: 120
cldrvr

Jolly good.

I doubt you would be singing the same tune, if it was your job on the line.

Maybe you are so brain washed by the corporate mentality, you would actually volunteer for redundancy? Just to save the company a few dollars. You know, the, (soon to be) company you did work for.

Gimme a break.

Last edited by screwballburling; 12th Oct 2012 at 03:35.
screwballburling is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2012, 08:04
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,578
was it left visible on an open computer page or printed out? Just curious as to the provenence!
Good question. The stuff I see in crew room printers and download folders on PUBLIC computers never stops to amaze me!! By the way, deleting downloaded files is not enough, you have to delete the files from the trash can as wel....l

CP
CaptainProp is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2012, 08:34
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Right hand seat
Posts: 89
But the costs of employment are not going up for a maximum of another 10 years! My understanding (and please correct me if wrong) is that there is a 10 year transition period before the new social security laws come into force where the employee can decide whether to continue paying in the UK (in NetJets case) OR their country of residence. if the company were to request all employees to maintain NI contributions to the UK, the cost is deferred 10 years. There is obviously another agenda under the table to target these nationalities - why not use time and trusted seniority as all other airlines seem to? That then retains those loyal and experienced employees.

Still waiting for the explanation of 'Found in the crew room'!

Last edited by Mike Oxbig; 12th Oct 2012 at 08:35. Reason: additional comment
Mike Oxbig is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2012, 09:07
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: with smeagel
Posts: 92
@Angry Pilot

From reading the letter at the top and your post it does not appear that they are not targeting French and Belgian pilots. They are targeting a Gateway. I imagine there will be many English and other nationality of pilots living in France (not sure about Belgium, no offence guys) and therefore affected.
Smeagels Boyfriend is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2012, 05:31
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Lis
Posts: 1
Devil

Dear Colleagues,



As you are all aware, NetJets Europe has over the last few years faced unprecedented market conditions.



The prolonged downturn in the economy has led to a fall in demand generally for business aviation. In the circumstances, we have had to look at whatever steps we can take to control and reduce our own costs to safeguard the competitiveness of our business.



We have already implemented a comprehensive set of measures to reduce and control costs. Both the Voluntary Options and the more recent Voluntary Separation programme sought to minimise impact on pilots as far as possible and were initiated in good faith to avoid having to terminate employment on the grounds of redundancy, in the hope that in due course the economy would pick up.



As the Voluntary Options programme comes to an end within the next 15 months and following the final swap of most crew members to their job share year on, we have had to look again at the number of pilots we employ and compare this with anticipated demand.



Last year, when we launched the Voluntary Separation programme, we informed you that our forecasts indicated that at the end of the Voluntary Options programme, the probability was that we would still have too many pilots when compared with likely flight demand. The Voluntary Separation programme was therefore intended to help address this. Although the offer of voluntary separation was taken up by 152 employees, unfortunately, in the light of continued lower flight demand, this was not sufficient to address the issue of over-capacity of pilots. We expect that trading conditions across Europe will remain fragile and, based on our current forecasts, we do not expect to see a return to the levels of demand that would require our present crewing levels for several years. In the circumstances, it is critical for the future of the business that we take steps now to address this issue.



Currently, we employ 780 pilots of whom 529 are pilots-in-command (PICs) and 251 are seconds-in-command (SICs). Our assessment is that, whilst we do not have any excess of SICs (and they are not therefore affected by this proposal), we need to reduce the total number of PICs by 128.



In addressing this matter, we have to take account of another issue facing the business which is a significant change in European social security regulations. As you are aware from previous communications, the current position is that under EU law the UK system of social security contributions applies to crew employed by NetJets Management Limited (NJML). However, a new European regulation that has come into force now affects the social security regime applicable to crew based upon the country in which their gateway is located. We estimate that based on current crew levels and social security rates, these changes will cost the business an additional €6.3m per year in employer contributions.



Proposals



In light of the position outlined above, we have formulated proposals to address the issues we face as a business. Unfortunately these proposals would involve job losses. These proposals are subject to consultation with employee representatives to be elected by the affected employees.



Our proposal is to reduce the number of PICs employed by NJML from 529 to 401, i.e. a reduction of 128.



If possible, we would like to avoid the need to make any compulsory redundancies. We therefore propose to offer voluntary redundancy to PICs with gateways in the six countries with the highest employer social security rates. These are listed below in descending order (i.e. of the six countries France has the highest rate and Hungary the lowest):



Country

Number of PICs with gateways in that country as at 5 October 2012

France

105*

Belgium

61

Czech Republic

2

Sweden

9

Italy

10

Hungary

1



* PICs with Basel and Geneva gateways have been included in the total number of PICs with gateways in France and will be given the opportunity to opt for voluntary redundancy. Further clarification is required from the authorities regarding the treatment for social security purposes of PICs with these gateways before we can confirm whether or not such PICs would be included in any compulsory redundancy exercise.



PICs with gateways in these countries will under the proposal have the option to leave with a one-off compensation payment equivalent to 15 months’ base salary (less applicable tax and social security payments) regardless of seniority. This sum will include any individual notice pay and redundancy payment entitlements but, clearly, will be well in excess of the value of those entitlements.



If the necessary reduction in the number of PICs cannot be achieved through voluntary redundancy, then the proposal is to select PICs for compulsory redundancy based first on the employer social security rates of their gateway country and secondly, where employees have gateways in the same country, by reference to their salary costs. It is proposed that PICs who are made compulsorily redundant would receive their contractual notice and a redundancy payment calculated in accordance with UK law but not any enhanced severance package.



In addition to the proposals outlined above, we have decided that, while gateways in the following countries will remain open for PICs and SICs already operating from those gateways, they will be closed to new moves:



France

Belgium

Czech Republic

Sweden

Italy

Hungary

Finland

Norway



A revised gateway policy reflecting these changes will be circulated to all crew members today and comes into force with immediate effect.



From today all permanent gateway moves will be suspended for the duration of the consultation period.



Consultation and Election of Employee Representatives



As stated above, these proposals are subject to consultation with employee representatives to be elected by PICs with gateways in France, Belgium, Czech Republic, Sweden, Italy and Hungary.



Details of the main functions of these representatives can be found at: The role of employee representatives | Business Link.



The company therefore invites PICs to elect:



• two representatives for PICs with gateways in France (the France Constituency);

• two representatives for PICs with gateways in Belgium (the Belgium Constituency); and

• two representatives for PICs with gateways in Czech Republic, Sweden, Italy and Hungary (the Third Constituency).



As a PIC with a gateway in one of the relevant countries, you are entitled to nominate an individual for election as an employee representative. You may nominate yourself or any other PIC with a gateway in the same constituency as yourself. For example, PICs with gateways in France can only nominate themselves or any other PIC with a gateway in France. PICs in the Czech Republic may nominate themselves or any other PIC with a gateway in the Czech Republic, Sweden, Italy or Hungary.



Your nominee must be an employee of NJML. Please also check that your nominee is willing to stand as a candidate for election.



Employee representatives will serve until the end of the consultation process which is anticipated to last until 31 January 2013. It is anticipated that the first meeting with employee representatives will take place on 31 October 2012 and that subsequent meetings may take place at regular intervals thereafter.



If you wish to nominate yourself or someone else for election, please complete the nomination form (at the end of this email and attached) and return it to Carla Pombeiro by e-mail at [email protected] by 12pm Lisbon time on 12 October 2012. In the case of a nomination of a colleague, your form must be accompanied by an email from the nominee agreeing to stand for election. Nomination forms received after this date will not be considered.



If more nominations are received than the number of vacancies, then a secret ballot will be arranged to elect employee representatives. Each PIC in a constituency will be entitled to two votes. The ballot will be conducted by Electoral Reform Services (an independent body) in order to ensure fairness, accuracy and confidentiality.



Questions



If you have any questions in relation to the proposals set out above or the consultation process, please send them by email to [email protected]. I have also attached answers to some FAQs for your information.



I appreciate that the announcement of these proposals is likely to cause significant concern and great uncertainty. As soon as the representatives have been elected we will commence detailed consultation with them and in addition we will keep you informed of developments throughout the consultation process. In the meantime, I would ask you to continue to focus on delivering to our customers the highest standards of safety and service.



Yours,



Mark

MARK WILSON
Chief Operating Officer



Discover the Bombardier Global 6000,
the new flagship of the NetJets fleet.
NetJets Europe | Enjoy Fractional Jet Ownership

Last edited by Dark Master; 13th Oct 2012 at 10:33.
Dark Master is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2012, 12:29
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: FL410
Age: 17
Posts: 98
Clear message

Seems like a very clear message. They have over-capacity and need to reduce the number of employees. Seems they are offering people a voluntary package that also seems fair. If the desired reduction is achieved, that will be the end. If not, then they will fire some people.

It seems that on other forums, there was some laughing at Ryanair.....now they will get their comeuppance....they will have to start paying the social benefits where their employees are based.....lol! Well, the other side of the coin, is that everyone else, based on their Base, will cost their company the local social contribution. In some countries, this contribution is heavily employer-based.

Let's be fair in thinking about this question. Consider a company based in Spain, with aircraft all over Europe and employees based in every European country. Where should these employees be taxed, where should they be socially insured? The technocrats have finally decided that taxes are paid in the country where the aircraft (or ship) is registered, while (and this is new) the social insurance is paid where the crew member has his/her BASE. So you can actually live in France, say.....but determine your base gateway to be London. You pay your own way to London at the start of your duty and back after duty. The company gets you to/from that gateway to the aircraft.

All theory. But the reality is that, due to the different systems of social insurance in the various countries, where some countries can add 35% of salary TO BE PAID BY THE EMPLOYER as social insurance, then that is a severe extra cost to the company. The result is that companies will avoid hiring people with base (gateways in NJ speak) in those countries.

So if you are presently living in France and want to continue to do so, make your gateway a German city and pay what it costs to get there and back. If you are too far away from another country to make this practical, you will have to relocate or find another employer.

Sorry.....that is a result of a change in legislation. Example---So in Denmark, cars are taxed at 105% up to about 8500€ wholesale price. Thereafter at 180%(!!) Then when all this is added together, 25% VAT on top! So in principle, you buy three cars and give two of them to the State in taxes. That is why you see an immediate change in the size and age of cars when crossing the border from Germany or Sweden. Same deal......you get some advantages living in Denmark, have to weigh the disadvantages and make your decision. If you are a motorhead, then maybe Denmark is not the place to live.

It is the same all over. We are nomads, our industry is international in scope. The various governments are all fighting to get the right to tax our salaries and have us pay social insurance. The technocrats have passed legislation to address these conflicting demands on our tax money.

Make your decisions based on what is important to you. But it certainly is not NJE "fault" at the end of the day. It is what it is.......
mushroom69 is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2012, 13:36
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 97
"So if you are presently living in France and want to continue to do so, make your gateway a German city and pay what it costs to get there and back. If you are too far away from another country to make this practical, you will have to relocate or find another employer. "
If you'd read the thread in its entireity, you'd realise that all gateway changes are frozen!
So my mate in France, can't move to one of NJ's preferred gateways to keep his job!! It should be LIFO, and all those above the line have to relocate, if they choose not to, then seek employement elsewhere.
Tags is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2012, 15:37
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: FL410
Age: 17
Posts: 98
I did read that the gateways were frozen for the time. I was generalizing for all of us, as every pilot will be impacted by this ruling if they work for a company in another country and have a "base." Every company will be impacted as well. Imagine the nightmare situation for a large company with many employees spread all over the EU.

Each of these countries have differing rules and the book-keeping function will have to learn all these country rules and processes. It can be difficult to understand the rules in one's own country at times......but 23 sets of rules?

I understood the base freeze was temporary in NJ case, as they are trying to get a handle on the implications, but it looks grim for the French and Belgian based.

It is in a way another case of pulling one leg of the table and being surprised that the other three move as well. This regulation was addressed at one aspect and no one thought about the other aspects, it seems. So someone is feeling smug, that they will get some money into their country coffers. The end result, might be that the impacted pilot either moves or becomes unemployed. In either case, the money his family previously spent locally on clothing, shoes, meals, supermarkets, services etc, will now go elsewhere. Net result is less money in circulation, fewer jobs and in an even worse case, a ward of the unemployment office is created out of a former net positive contributor.

I remember when ports in Norway were required to be "self-financed." It sounds good, doesn't it? The port income and the port expenses should be in balance. What happens in reality though, is that the port fees go up so high, that the ships go to other ports, making the remaining ships pay even more. As ships leave, the radar repairman, the dry dock, the painters and carpenters, the chandlers, and their families are out of jobs. The end result is that the largest port in Norway is now in Sweden! So many goods arrive "in Norway," via GØteborg and are driven in by lorries.

"Well yes, but it is a principle of this government that the ports and administrations other places be user-financed." Again, sounds good.....net results---closed airports, closed or reduced ports, high costs of licenses.
mushroom69 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.