Grey Market
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
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Or the presumably 'white' guys have so much 'dirt' on themselves that they are rather grey themselves?
Does that make sense? If that charter is illegal and he reports it, the CAA are obliged to check that out, aren`t they? Or is there maybe a little bit of doubt?
There is no doubt from what the operator knows that the charter is illegal, but he is not telling the CAA.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
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An operation that is willing to operate illegally to help pay the bills, headed by a shady character with no respect for the regulations is unlikely to be safe
Since the recession many are struggling
Pace
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South Est
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Ah Pace - agree with alot of what you say, but disagree with a lot too!
Lack of convictions is simply down to CAA resources and weak law. Putting any safety issues to one side for a moment, the fact is that the main document you require in order to perform flights for hire or reward is in fact an Operating Licence, not an AOC. The Operating Licence in essence is a commercial right to operate CAT. How do you get an OL? - One of the mandatory qualifying aspects is an AOC!!
It's the OL that is amended should you choose to operate scheduled services, operate larger aircraft etc...it then ramps up the financial fitness and CAA bond accordingly.
There has been such a massive surge in operations of small jets and turbo props, both CAT, corporate, private and of course unregulated illegal CAT that the CAA have simply been caught wanting, and now have mountain to climb to tidy it all up. It's a mucking fuddle.
Re AOC's - Alas you are quite right. There are operators that are under par, under resourced and under performing I'm sure. One would hope that the audits from the CAA picks up on that, and ultimatley said operators shape up or ship out. The current financial situation is hurting more for some than others, and its where the wheat is seperated from the chaff. Darwinism in action!
Unfortunately, in grey land (black land) those operators that are below par, and not performing well are simply not picked up on, and it's the passengers in the back that are unprotected and at the mercy of one or two individuals that think they are beyond the law, and perhaps don't even realise themselves that they are operating under par.
We all have a responsibility to raise the bar, and not just sit idly by while a few spoil it for the many.
Lack of convictions is simply down to CAA resources and weak law. Putting any safety issues to one side for a moment, the fact is that the main document you require in order to perform flights for hire or reward is in fact an Operating Licence, not an AOC. The Operating Licence in essence is a commercial right to operate CAT. How do you get an OL? - One of the mandatory qualifying aspects is an AOC!!
It's the OL that is amended should you choose to operate scheduled services, operate larger aircraft etc...it then ramps up the financial fitness and CAA bond accordingly.
There has been such a massive surge in operations of small jets and turbo props, both CAT, corporate, private and of course unregulated illegal CAT that the CAA have simply been caught wanting, and now have mountain to climb to tidy it all up. It's a mucking fuddle.
Re AOC's - Alas you are quite right. There are operators that are under par, under resourced and under performing I'm sure. One would hope that the audits from the CAA picks up on that, and ultimatley said operators shape up or ship out. The current financial situation is hurting more for some than others, and its where the wheat is seperated from the chaff. Darwinism in action!
Unfortunately, in grey land (black land) those operators that are below par, and not performing well are simply not picked up on, and it's the passengers in the back that are unprotected and at the mercy of one or two individuals that think they are beyond the law, and perhaps don't even realise themselves that they are operating under par.
We all have a responsibility to raise the bar, and not just sit idly by while a few spoil it for the many.
Join Date: Feb 2012
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His Dudeness
My point is that some charters are certainly illegal. The operator of the charter knows it is illegal, he knows that the passengers have paid him for the flight in a way that legally constitutes a charter, which he cannot legally operate. He is not likely to report himself to the CAA for illegal operations though, is he?
My point is that some charters are certainly illegal. The operator of the charter knows it is illegal, he knows that the passengers have paid him for the flight in a way that legally constitutes a charter, which he cannot legally operate. He is not likely to report himself to the CAA for illegal operations though, is he?
Join Date: Mar 2001
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An air operator's certificate (AOC) is the approval granted from a national aviation authority to an aircraft operator to allow it to use aircraft for commercial purposes
AOC = commercial permit. ATC FPLs filed as G with pax? Are they all admin flights (non-revenue)? How many G coded flights are flying around with revenue involved? There isn't really a proper 91K outside the US to my knowledge. I accept corrections.
The French and Italians are on the right track, but they should also expedite the proceedings and above all be available to approve requests during weekends and holidays for short-notice landing permits (for non-EU27 countries).
We all need to make money fairly/squarely, CAAs, Airports, FBOs, Operators, Chaterer Brokers, etc..
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Its not the reporting, its the grounding
many such charters are reported, with 100% proof, but the regulators refuse to action.
so until there is a realistic penalty, these charters will continue.
lastly, do you know how much my brother pays for his flights on my other brothers aircraft...
.
glf
so until there is a realistic penalty, these charters will continue.
lastly, do you know how much my brother pays for his flights on my other brothers aircraft...
.glf
