Should EASA be allowed to monopolise licencing in Europe?
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As bose says folk have been poking them for years and now they have got the reaction.
Funny how people adjust their forum posts as it suits.
There are many other examples but I have better things to do than spend time digging them out.
Such hypocrisy.
Last edited by peterh337; 12th Apr 2012 at 13:40.
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CLDRVR quote:
"I can see exactly where the EU is coming from, they want to regulate the aircraft based and operated within the EU and are no longer tolerating non EU registered aircraft based within its borders, what is wrong with that"?
I assume this means that all M registered aircraft based in Europe will be affected and told to operate from Ronaldsway Airport on a permanant basis as the I-O-M is not a member of the EU.
"I can see exactly where the EU is coming from, they want to regulate the aircraft based and operated within the EU and are no longer tolerating non EU registered aircraft based within its borders, what is wrong with that"?
I assume this means that all M registered aircraft based in Europe will be affected and told to operate from Ronaldsway Airport on a permanant basis as the I-O-M is not a member of the EU.
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"Just what we need, yet another organisation thinking they should represent pilots but will just add to the confusion.
Spend your time productivity by getting pilots to support the voices they already have.
You might be free now, but that's not a sustainable model. Travel to meetings etc as well as websites, technology etc all need paying for."
U currently only have AOPA, as the majority which is not many of other associations/organizations are either Airline Specific or created for the Airline pilots. You do not find one that pulls all together for a common goal.
The once that started never succeeded...
Reason being that it is free is that one of the founders are more then well off, and a GA Pilot who likes to make sure everyone is head at the government bodies... But thanks for being positive, it sure is going well in the aviation community right now right??? ;-)
Spend your time productivity by getting pilots to support the voices they already have.
You might be free now, but that's not a sustainable model. Travel to meetings etc as well as websites, technology etc all need paying for."
U currently only have AOPA, as the majority which is not many of other associations/organizations are either Airline Specific or created for the Airline pilots. You do not find one that pulls all together for a common goal.
The once that started never succeeded...
Reason being that it is free is that one of the founders are more then well off, and a GA Pilot who likes to make sure everyone is head at the government bodies... But thanks for being positive, it sure is going well in the aviation community right now right??? ;-)
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Quote:
As bose says folk have been poking them for years and now they have got the reaction.
Bose has never been among those poking them, of course
Funny how people adjust their forum posts as it suits.
There are many other examples but I have better things to do than spend time digging them out.
Such hypocrisy.
As bose says folk have been poking them for years and now they have got the reaction.
Bose has never been among those poking them, of course
Funny how people adjust their forum posts as it suits.
There are many other examples but I have better things to do than spend time digging them out.
Such hypocrisy.
I told you a number of years ago thus would happen, but rather than listen you did as you ae doing now,resorted to childish efforts to discredit me.
I will admit to getting great pleasure out of you being proved wrong,despite the fact that I actually don't support it as I don't think it benefits flight safety at all.
Funny how you changed your tune in the end and got yourself a JAA PPL/IR though. Now who is the hypocrite?
At the end of the day it does not impact me as I have been dual qualified for years but I do feel for the guys whose careers this basically ends for nothing more than politics.
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Reason being that it is free is that one of the founders are more then well off, and a GA Pilot who likes to make sure everyone is head at the government bodies... But thanks for being positive, it sure is going well in the aviation community right now right??? ;-)
Not to mention that if you can't even research who else is in the game how do you expect to get a place at the table? There are several representative bodies in the pot, all with a place at the table.
Your attempt is laudable but naive.
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Haha Reading your previous post on the forum makes do make you sound like a grumpy old man that's just gone through a divorce... Good one for having a constant negative towards the majority of people who post on this forum!!!!
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The EASA wording is on where the Operator is based.
The location (or usual location) of the aircraft might one day feature in somebody's interpretation of where the Operator is based, but currently it appears nothing to do with it.
One definition of an Operator is whoever controls where the aircraft flies. This leads to various pretty obvious solutions/workarounds for many higher-end ops. It is not helpful for the typical single private owner-pilot (like myself) but if e.g. you imagine an aircraft rental outfit which is based on the IOM which runs a booking website, and owns the aircraft, and can refuse any given booking attempt, then presumably that outfit is the Operator.
And if I can think of that, I am sure that aviation lawyers are well on the case already.
It's just the small people that are getting shafted by EASA, not the bigger stuff which is emotionally the biggest red rag to the anti foreign reg bulls.
The location (or usual location) of the aircraft might one day feature in somebody's interpretation of where the Operator is based, but currently it appears nothing to do with it.
One definition of an Operator is whoever controls where the aircraft flies. This leads to various pretty obvious solutions/workarounds for many higher-end ops. It is not helpful for the typical single private owner-pilot (like myself) but if e.g. you imagine an aircraft rental outfit which is based on the IOM which runs a booking website, and owns the aircraft, and can refuse any given booking attempt, then presumably that outfit is the Operator.
And if I can think of that, I am sure that aviation lawyers are well on the case already.
It's just the small people that are getting shafted by EASA, not the bigger stuff which is emotionally the biggest red rag to the anti foreign reg bulls.
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Ain't going to happen unless FAA issue certs to EASA license holders under the same terms.
More political questions, like the ease of foreigners working in the respective countries is a slightly different question...
Great so see this thread getting personal...
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People are so afraid that uhhh all the foreigners are gonna come steal our jobs in Europe.... That's a bunch of BULL....
It is by far HARDER to get a Work-permit for an American in Europe then it is for a European to get hired by an American company....
Reason why it does not happen a lot in the states is that most companies do not wanna waist their time on the application process which is actually quite simple...
Ya I got the right to live and work in both the states and in Europe and i had to hire both Europeans in the states and TRIED to hire foreigners in Europe which was a MUCH greater Hazel!!!
EASA and not only EASA but the majority of Aviation government bodies like CAA and others around Europe, are being governed by a bunch of grumpy old men/woman where some of them may have seen a cockpit back in the 70's but thats about it... Dont believe me?? checkout the CAA offices in Gatwick (uk) NOTHING but old folk's who would benefit more from sitting at a retirement home then with their right hand on the aviation law's in Europe.
Can it be more retarded then it is right now? Sure it can and it will as long as you have a government body like EASA which is full of 50% old and narrow-minded x-aviators and 50% paper-pushers who got absolutely no knowledge of any kind when it comes to Aviation.
Which regulations has come up lately that has had ANY benefit towards any pilot right now????
Not long ago 100 Airline pilots from Europe who did the 14 JAA exams 5 Years + ago sat down and did 2 Multiple Choice JAA ATPL Exams as a study to see how well the great JAA training still stuck... needless to say that 94% FAILED BOTH TEST.
But the matter of fact is that the BIGGEST difference between Europe and the rest of the world are these 14 exams.
"Do your 14 exams and take an ATPL skill-test and now ur ok to fly in Europe, they said to John who was 54 and 13000hrs flying all types of private and airlines" **** OFF John said ill rather just join Emirates!! Which he did!!!
What are the reasons that the new rule is gonna take place? Is it a safety Issue???? NO not at all the problems facing should that be the reason would be beyond anything else as that directly would say that FAA/ICAO Pilots are ****ty compared to European Pilots!!!! Is it an issue about foreigners stealing the job's from Europeans?? No not that either!!! Is it the tax issues that was big 3-5 years ago... No not really that Either cos we already go the regulations stating that an aircraft is only allowed to stay in a European country for X-amount of time...
Well what the fxxxx is it then!!!!
I flown for over 12 years not yes not a lot compared to others, and all i see is an Aviation system that is rotting more then ever
It is by far HARDER to get a Work-permit for an American in Europe then it is for a European to get hired by an American company....
Reason why it does not happen a lot in the states is that most companies do not wanna waist their time on the application process which is actually quite simple...
Ya I got the right to live and work in both the states and in Europe and i had to hire both Europeans in the states and TRIED to hire foreigners in Europe which was a MUCH greater Hazel!!!
EASA and not only EASA but the majority of Aviation government bodies like CAA and others around Europe, are being governed by a bunch of grumpy old men/woman where some of them may have seen a cockpit back in the 70's but thats about it... Dont believe me?? checkout the CAA offices in Gatwick (uk) NOTHING but old folk's who would benefit more from sitting at a retirement home then with their right hand on the aviation law's in Europe.
Can it be more retarded then it is right now? Sure it can and it will as long as you have a government body like EASA which is full of 50% old and narrow-minded x-aviators and 50% paper-pushers who got absolutely no knowledge of any kind when it comes to Aviation.
Which regulations has come up lately that has had ANY benefit towards any pilot right now????
Not long ago 100 Airline pilots from Europe who did the 14 JAA exams 5 Years + ago sat down and did 2 Multiple Choice JAA ATPL Exams as a study to see how well the great JAA training still stuck... needless to say that 94% FAILED BOTH TEST.
But the matter of fact is that the BIGGEST difference between Europe and the rest of the world are these 14 exams.
"Do your 14 exams and take an ATPL skill-test and now ur ok to fly in Europe, they said to John who was 54 and 13000hrs flying all types of private and airlines" **** OFF John said ill rather just join Emirates!! Which he did!!!
What are the reasons that the new rule is gonna take place? Is it a safety Issue???? NO not at all the problems facing should that be the reason would be beyond anything else as that directly would say that FAA/ICAO Pilots are ****ty compared to European Pilots!!!! Is it an issue about foreigners stealing the job's from Europeans?? No not that either!!! Is it the tax issues that was big 3-5 years ago... No not really that Either cos we already go the regulations stating that an aircraft is only allowed to stay in a European country for X-amount of time...
Well what the fxxxx is it then!!!!
I flown for over 12 years not yes not a lot compared to others, and all i see is an Aviation system that is rotting more then ever
Peter, what you did to get your PPL re-issued was a class rating skill test, not the PPL skill test. The IR proficiency check will not in itself go any way towards revalidating or renewing a SEP class rating.
There is no reason that the CRE/IRR who conducts the IR proficiency check cannot also conduct a class rating proficiency check in the same flight but they remain two distinct and separate checks (and entirely separate from the PPL skill test). It is the ability to use the IR proficiency check in place of the training flight with an instructor that is removed under Part-FCL
There is no reason that the CRE/IRR who conducts the IR proficiency check cannot also conduct a class rating proficiency check in the same flight but they remain two distinct and separate checks (and entirely separate from the PPL skill test). It is the ability to use the IR proficiency check in place of the training flight with an instructor that is removed under Part-FCL
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Not long ago 100 Airline pilots from Europe who did the 14 JAA exams 5 Years + ago sat down and did 2 Multiple Choice JAA ATPL Exams as a study to see how well the great JAA training still stuck... needless to say that 94% FAILED BOTH TEST.
Many thx BillieBob for that info. It will save a bit of money.
Will M reg aircraft be affected as the Isle of Man is not in the EU?
This is dead handy for private owner-pilots who live on the IOM, or in the Channel Islands, all of whom appear to be totally protected from the EASA measure.
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yes of course he can.
Dear MJ,
Post #26 is about "locus standi" in European law. The cases drummed up by our honourable and learned friend have their roots in competition law. It basically boils down to the fact that representing organisations such as Balpa, N-Flyers, Aopa etc... cannot sue the Commission "on behalf of their members".
But obviously any individual Balpa member or any individual Aopa member or any individual citizen, if affected, can sue the Commission over a violation of Article 15 of the Charter (or any other article of any relevant treaty or rule - discrimination springs to mind too). And if half a dozen citizens sue at the same time on the same grounds, then cases are often merged. It then simply becomes "Bloggs, Jones, The Republic of Ireland, Cirrus Europe Ltd and the Bishop of Durham versus the Commission" or something like that. It'll take them 12-18 months to get to a decision, and it'll cost around € 10,000 in legal fees, but considering that the rest of his career is at stake, I'd say it's worth the time and effort.
So instead of "having a look" at post #26, I would suggest clvdr and yourself actually read it.
Post #26 is about "locus standi" in European law. The cases drummed up by our honourable and learned friend have their roots in competition law. It basically boils down to the fact that representing organisations such as Balpa, N-Flyers, Aopa etc... cannot sue the Commission "on behalf of their members".
But obviously any individual Balpa member or any individual Aopa member or any individual citizen, if affected, can sue the Commission over a violation of Article 15 of the Charter (or any other article of any relevant treaty or rule - discrimination springs to mind too). And if half a dozen citizens sue at the same time on the same grounds, then cases are often merged. It then simply becomes "Bloggs, Jones, The Republic of Ireland, Cirrus Europe Ltd and the Bishop of Durham versus the Commission" or something like that. It'll take them 12-18 months to get to a decision, and it'll cost around € 10,000 in legal fees, but considering that the rest of his career is at stake, I'd say it's worth the time and effort.
So instead of "having a look" at post #26, I would suggest clvdr and yourself actually read it.
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We shall see what comes out in the wash.
To be honest its not really worth arguing about.
They obviously have a plan, even if EASA goes tits up now the regulation is now on the books of every country. You would have to get every country to change it again.
Maybe thats been there plan from the start, get a heap of legislation through which is going to cause uproar then disappear.
Suddenly there is nobody to sue and your looking at working through every countries court systems to try and get it changed.
To be honest its not really worth arguing about.
They obviously have a plan, even if EASA goes tits up now the regulation is now on the books of every country. You would have to get every country to change it again.
Maybe thats been there plan from the start, get a heap of legislation through which is going to cause uproar then disappear.
Suddenly there is nobody to sue and your looking at working through every countries court systems to try and get it changed.
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OK I'm very tempted to join in this discussion of EU lawmaking...I subject that I know a little bit about...but I'll leave that one to others...
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I've contacted the DGAC (French CAA), their answer was an astounding 'we have no clue, check the EASA website'.
Nevertheless they were able to report that in France, the transition period will last not 2 but 1 year.
More info (or lack of) there, in french:
Reconnaissance des licences - Ministère du Développement durable
Nevertheless they were able to report that in France, the transition period will last not 2 but 1 year.
More info (or lack of) there, in french:
Reconnaissance des licences - Ministère du Développement durable
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France is an interesting case, because they have their own IR. It appears to be for private pilots only, however.
The whole thing is a mystery because France, of all people, would have the inside track on internal EASA workings.
The whole thing is a mystery because France, of all people, would have the inside track on internal EASA workings.
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It is the ability to use the IR proficiency check in place of the training flight with an instructor that is removed under Part-FCL