Global Express Type Rating
Join Date: May 2002
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g f, the fact that you can look at a 103 resumes, all with jet time and many with PIC, I suggest, is more a product of the times than history. From what I understand there are a very large number of pilots furloughed from the airlines, all of whom would be desperate to be back in work.
It may well be the case that, in your particular circumstances, you can afford the luxury of being choosey as to who gets the nod, but, should your elected donkeys get their heads out of their fundamental orifices and realise that posturing will not stoke the fires of the economy then that pilot pool may well get thinned out rapidly.
I suggest that there is nothing fundamentally difficult about flying a GLEX compared to a LJ, in fact they are probably considerably easier than 1st generation jets which basically had the same systems as their prop-driven brethren. Good training is the key, after all, we sent young men out in the largest aircraft of the day with little more than 200 hours of training and they had others flinging lumps of metal at them to boot.
I will admit that there does appear to be same cost-cutting imperative at work in training as there is across the whole aviation industry. The article by John Deakin on obtaining a GIV rating is quite illuminating and he had something approaching 30,000 hours when he trained. It makes interesting reading. Modern Flight Training...Isn't
It may well be the case that, in your particular circumstances, you can afford the luxury of being choosey as to who gets the nod, but, should your elected donkeys get their heads out of their fundamental orifices and realise that posturing will not stoke the fires of the economy then that pilot pool may well get thinned out rapidly.
I suggest that there is nothing fundamentally difficult about flying a GLEX compared to a LJ, in fact they are probably considerably easier than 1st generation jets which basically had the same systems as their prop-driven brethren. Good training is the key, after all, we sent young men out in the largest aircraft of the day with little more than 200 hours of training and they had others flinging lumps of metal at them to boot.
I will admit that there does appear to be same cost-cutting imperative at work in training as there is across the whole aviation industry. The article by John Deakin on obtaining a GIV rating is quite illuminating and he had something approaching 30,000 hours when he trained. It makes interesting reading. Modern Flight Training...Isn't
Join Date: Jul 2004
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@ PLovett
I love that article, so true!
BTW, there is no difference in FAA or JAA training, ALL are just trying to fill the squares and only those differ very slightly
Modern training ist just a bureaucratic excercise, and that just makes it harder on the young aspiring pilot wannabies.
BTW, there is no difference in FAA or JAA training, ALL are just trying to fill the squares and only those differ very slightly
Modern training ist just a bureaucratic excercise, and that just makes it harder on the young aspiring pilot wannabies.
I'm not so sure--all those resumes were working pilots, several were working airline guys. About 15 were ex-military, the same number working corporate pilots, a lot of RJ captains. None of them furloughed airline types.
GF
GF
Join Date: May 2002
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G F, thanks for the update, always willing to be proved wrong. However, the USA does have a very large pool to recruit from as there are multiple ways to make a career in aviation in your country.
I have noticed that ads for corporate jobs in the USA do have high time requirements. I once, tongue in cheek, suggested that an ad for an FO that was seeking very high time requirements should also have included 2 moon landings and 5 shuttle flights. No-one, to my disappointment, responded.
I have noticed that ads for corporate jobs in the USA do have high time requirements. I once, tongue in cheek, suggested that an ad for an FO that was seeking very high time requirements should also have included 2 moon landings and 5 shuttle flights. No-one, to my disappointment, responded.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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A colleague of mine, as F/O on an N-reg Citation X, needed the min. required time of 4000hrs TT. Despite knowing the chief pilot before he got on!
It's perfectly doable in the States.... you get your CFI after your commercial, instruct here, there and between jobs, fly mail or small cargo, count cattle or spray crops. You'll get to those 4000 hrs easily enough.
What's there to do in Europe (and elsewhere)?
General Aviation and private flying is - and has been - overregulated and overpriced for years, and everyone not in the business looks down on it as a hobby of lawyers and doctors.
One could build hours 4000hrs by towing gliders until 40 years old, or instruct PPLs in a Cessna 150 for ten years.
Nothing else there really. The only way forward is through an airline or a bizjet.
And for the record (I was fortunate enough to get my FAA licenses before the European ones and enjoy the hands-on approach in the US):
I don't think someone who has 2000hrs instructing PPLs in the pattern is automatically a more proficient AIRLINE or GA pilot than one who is sent for his GLEX TR at 300hrs. That jet is going to fly you during the first 50 hrs anyway and not the other way round, no difference whether you come from a C150 with 2000hrs or a C150 with 200.
It's perfectly doable in the States.... you get your CFI after your commercial, instruct here, there and between jobs, fly mail or small cargo, count cattle or spray crops. You'll get to those 4000 hrs easily enough.
What's there to do in Europe (and elsewhere)?
General Aviation and private flying is - and has been - overregulated and overpriced for years, and everyone not in the business looks down on it as a hobby of lawyers and doctors.
One could build hours 4000hrs by towing gliders until 40 years old, or instruct PPLs in a Cessna 150 for ten years.
Nothing else there really. The only way forward is through an airline or a bizjet.
And for the record (I was fortunate enough to get my FAA licenses before the European ones and enjoy the hands-on approach in the US):
I don't think someone who has 2000hrs instructing PPLs in the pattern is automatically a more proficient AIRLINE or GA pilot than one who is sent for his GLEX TR at 300hrs. That jet is going to fly you during the first 50 hrs anyway and not the other way round, no difference whether you come from a C150 with 2000hrs or a C150 with 200.
2,000 hours of instructing PPLs isn't gonna ear one a GLEX seat, either. And I fully understand and endorse the "cadet" type system used by many European airlines, after all, that is what most AFs do--structured, disciplined training with real evaluation standards and time lines for learning. I do have a problem with a 500 hour, or 200 hour, pilot with a brand new CPL spending his money to get a type rating in the hopes someone will give him a job. First, it encourages new pilots to try to "short cut" the required experience; second, it creates a pool of those willing to work for sub-standard wages; third, their lack of training sometimes endangers their charges who think they are being flown by the best for less.
I sometimes fly with the product of the "CFI, school of hard knocks" and they can be truly frightening--unwilling to learn, "I've been around, I know what I'm doin', "the book doesn't apply to me" guys. I'd rather fly with that 300- hour pilot from a good cadet program. I did it as an AF instructor in heavies for 18 years.
GF
I sometimes fly with the product of the "CFI, school of hard knocks" and they can be truly frightening--unwilling to learn, "I've been around, I know what I'm doin', "the book doesn't apply to me" guys. I'd rather fly with that 300- hour pilot from a good cadet program. I did it as an AF instructor in heavies for 18 years.
GF
Join Date: Apr 2007
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GF,
We're absolutely on the same page re. paying for a TR - any TR!
I wouldn't for my life.
We all know - and have seen - that there are some who really won't make it into a jet cockpit in their career, despite trying however hard.
Met one of these poor souls a few weeks ago at a job interview.
He failed the airline interviews, no matter where he went. Then thought to "consider the GA" after all, didn't get a shot. Not in a Mustang, a Phenom or a Caravan. Nothing.
He told me he called every single operator in Western Europe, offering to pay for a TR and fly for free for his first year... imagine that.
Not giving up on one's childhood dreams goes a long way it seems.
We're absolutely on the same page re. paying for a TR - any TR!
I wouldn't for my life.
We all know - and have seen - that there are some who really won't make it into a jet cockpit in their career, despite trying however hard.
Met one of these poor souls a few weeks ago at a job interview.
He failed the airline interviews, no matter where he went. Then thought to "consider the GA" after all, didn't get a shot. Not in a Mustang, a Phenom or a Caravan. Nothing.
He told me he called every single operator in Western Europe, offering to pay for a TR and fly for free for his first year... imagine that.
Not giving up on one's childhood dreams goes a long way it seems.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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here we go again.
First one in the bin at my place. Fly for free? Any chiefpilot should be able to imagine what that would mean for himself and all the other pilots in the company.
I remember a dude who offered to fly for half the difference between F/O and capt salary plus F/O in order to get promoted. He also had a pension from the military thus could afford to cuircumnavigate all the others ahead of him. Met him years later when he was bitching about the fact that he would not get a pay rise.
Sometimes one gets what he deserves....
offering to pay for a TR and fly for free for his first year
I remember a dude who offered to fly for half the difference between F/O and capt salary plus F/O in order to get promoted. He also had a pension from the military thus could afford to cuircumnavigate all the others ahead of him. Met him years later when he was bitching about the fact that he would not get a pay rise.
Sometimes one gets what he deserves....
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Does "INITIAL" have to be Cool ?
Hi Guys,
in fact, Intial Type Rating is often "not so cool" as we don't quite know yet where we are aiming for, even if we believe we do, and what it's gonna look like in the end...
...when all the bits and pieces of (hard) work and learnings will have fully integrated our brain, and its storage room.
Initial is essential, and has to be dealt in peaceful environment, with determination and seriousness, even if we are "among the best pilots in the world". (which I don't any longer believe I am or have ever been).
The thing is that we are each time entering in a new world (especially when changing aircraft manufacturer [and philosophy]), unless having been lucky enough to fly as an observer on the aircraft we are now getting trained for. Things don't always speak by themselves, until we get to use them on a daily basis or so.
Most of the time, we meet more failures, faults and defects during initial training than what we ever will in the rest of our pilot's life, (for the majority of us, I mean. Beware: there are some unlucky exceptions in the real life!), and in the end of the training, we are pretty sharp about dealing perfectly well and safely with all those situations.
Thanks for the good training center and devices, the well experienced instructors...
...and our own hard work too.
The recurrent training will be an other important piece of work, because this time, we have built up a real experience on type. This should open some useful feedback topics. Just to say: the deepest we grab during training, the easiest and coolest it gets in the real cockpit.
After all, this is where we spend most of our working time, and we wish to keep it cool.
Anyway, congratulations for your Type Rating, enjoy your new aircraft
.
CD
in fact, Intial Type Rating is often "not so cool" as we don't quite know yet where we are aiming for, even if we believe we do, and what it's gonna look like in the end...
...when all the bits and pieces of (hard)
work and learnings will have fully integrated our brain, and its storage room.Initial is essential, and has to be dealt in peaceful environment, with determination and seriousness, even if we are "among the best pilots in the world". (which I don't any longer believe I am or have ever been).
The thing is that we are each time entering in a new world (especially when changing aircraft manufacturer [and philosophy]), unless having been lucky enough to fly as an observer on the aircraft we are now getting trained for. Things don't always speak by themselves, until we get to use them on a daily basis or so.
Most of the time, we meet more failures, faults and defects during initial training than what we ever will in the rest of our pilot's life, (for the majority of us, I mean. Beware: there are some unlucky exceptions in the real life!), and in the end of the training, we are pretty sharp about dealing perfectly well and safely with all those situations.
Thanks for the good training center and devices, the well experienced instructors...
...and our own hard work too.
The recurrent training will be an other important piece of work, because this time, we have built up a real experience on type. This should open some useful feedback topics. Just to say: the deepest we grab during training, the easiest and coolest it gets in the real cockpit.
After all, this is where we spend most of our working time, and we wish to keep it cool.
Anyway, congratulations for your Type Rating, enjoy your new aircraft
.CD
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Global 5000/6000 TR cost
Hello,
Could someone please provide info on the current cost of a Global 5/6 type rating ? (Please state whether its per pilot or for a crew)
Where could this be done? Has anyone been through it in the last few years?
How long does the full type rating last?
Feel free to PM/email me. Thanks for your help!
Could someone please provide info on the current cost of a Global 5/6 type rating ? (Please state whether its per pilot or for a crew)
Where could this be done? Has anyone been through it in the last few years?
How long does the full type rating last?
Feel free to PM/email me. Thanks for your help!
Montreal or DFW BATC quotes about 100 grand US for the rating, if you have the ATP. Certainly nogotiatble, but not many openings available.
GF
GF
Having tried to arrange circuits, it's near impossible outside of an employer. Insurance and/or owners usually prohibit renting out the plane for training use.
GF
GF
Join Date: Oct 2003
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There is one place, but advertising rules prevent me naming it since I am involved. You will see an advert on here in the next few weeks though.
BJJ
BJJ
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flaretoland,
You can get a Global 6000 Vision TR in either BATC, CAE or FSI. Prices per pilot could easily be above 70.000 USD without Base Training.
Base Training will be very difficult to accomodate if you don't have your aircraft yet.
I've been through the same process some months ago. The TR was carried through my employer and therefore the prices were lower than above stated.
Base Training for EASA License (4 landings in my personal case) was held through AeronautX and I found them very helpful and got a way to have a Privately owned Global for my Base Training.
PM me if you fell I may be of help.
Regards,
You can get a Global 6000 Vision TR in either BATC, CAE or FSI. Prices per pilot could easily be above 70.000 USD without Base Training.
Base Training will be very difficult to accomodate if you don't have your aircraft yet.
I've been through the same process some months ago. The TR was carried through my employer and therefore the prices were lower than above stated.
Base Training for EASA License (4 landings in my personal case) was held through AeronautX and I found them very helpful and got a way to have a Privately owned Global for my Base Training.
PM me if you fell I may be of help.
Regards,
