FAA Multi Crew Rating - Time Between Renewals
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FAA Multi Crew Rating - Time Between Renewals
Am currently working my notice period before joining another operator and was expecting to leave when recurrency due on 30th June as I last did my type recurrent mid June last year (FAA calendar year being to end of applicable month). Have now been told that will have to work 'till end July as FAA allows an extra month to do recurrent and therefore legal to fly for 13th month.
Have spoken with head of standards at a FSI school and have searched at length for something that seems to back this up but have only come up with FAR Sec 61.58 where para (a)(1) states that check has to be done in preceding 12 months and para (g) seems to state that you can do your training a month late but have to back date the date of test. Para (b) says however that this section does not apply to operations under part 91 (thats me!!!).
Anybody got any REAL ideas???
Thanks.
Have spoken with head of standards at a FSI school and have searched at length for something that seems to back this up but have only come up with FAR Sec 61.58 where para (a)(1) states that check has to be done in preceding 12 months and para (g) seems to state that you can do your training a month late but have to back date the date of test. Para (b) says however that this section does not apply to operations under part 91 (thats me!!!).
Anybody got any REAL ideas???
Thanks.
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(b) This section does not apply to persons conducting operations under subpart K of part 91
So in reality this means that as a basic FAR-91 pilot you can do the 61.58 check in the 13th month.
As a FAR-91K pilot you can also do it in the 13th month but it wont be a 61.58 checkride.
As a FAR-135 pilot you can also do it in the 13th month but it will be a 135.293 (?) check ride.
You are stuck til the end of July as per 61.58(g)..... sorry.
Mutt
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Thanks for your extensive answer Mutt.
My version of 61.58 para (b) and (c) says "subpart K OR Part 91" but I certainly agree OF makes more sense.
The link I have been using is FAR Part 61 Sec. 61.58 effective as of 10/03/2005
Can I just onfirm yours definately says OF ???
My version of 61.58 para (b) and (c) says "subpart K OR Part 91" but I certainly agree OF makes more sense.
The link I have been using is FAR Part 61 Sec. 61.58 effective as of 10/03/2005
Can I just onfirm yours definately says OF ???
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61.58 is a PIC requirement. If you fly as SIC you don't need to worry about this.
Yes, 61.58 (b) says:"..OF part 91", not "..OR part 91".
Also, (g) allows you to take your check one month early or late from your base month but you must keep the same base month.
Yes, 61.58 (b) says:"..OF part 91", not "..OR part 91".
Also, (g) allows you to take your check one month early or late from your base month but you must keep the same base month.
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So just to clarify the day to day implementation of these rules:-
61.58 doesn't apply to Fractional Operators, Airline, Ad-Hoc 135 Operators or the others mentioned but does apply to standard private Part 91 pilots
A PIC check must be done each 12 calendar months HOWEVER
You may go over into the 13th month before check provided you back date the date of the checkride one month AND
You are legal to fly PIC in the 13th month even if there is no intention by the aircraft operator to carry out the recurrent training or checkride
Correct???
61.58 doesn't apply to Fractional Operators, Airline, Ad-Hoc 135 Operators or the others mentioned but does apply to standard private Part 91 pilots
A PIC check must be done each 12 calendar months HOWEVER
You may go over into the 13th month before check provided you back date the date of the checkride one month AND
You are legal to fly PIC in the 13th month even if there is no intention by the aircraft operator to carry out the recurrent training or checkride
Correct???
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In order:
61.58 applies to the Part 91 guy.
Yes.
Checkride is not "backdated" but your base-month, month due next year, doesn't move up 1 month, so essentially you are right.
The FARs can be interpreted by what they "don't" say as much as by what they "do" say...so, Yes.
61.58 applies to the Part 91 guy.
Yes.
Checkride is not "backdated" but your base-month, month due next year, doesn't move up 1 month, so essentially you are right.
The FARs can be interpreted by what they "don't" say as much as by what they "do" say...so, Yes.
The memory jogger for the rule is 'ace, base, grace'. Base month is the month that the renewal/checkride is due. Ace is the month prior ie 1 month early, and grace is a...well, grace month to meet the requirement even though past due. The ace, base, grace rule doesn't change when the next check is due ie 6 or 12 months from the base month.
Just like some loan or overdraft repayments. You may be allowed a bit of leeway to pay slightly late but it doesn't change when the next payment is due.
Just like some loan or overdraft repayments. You may be allowed a bit of leeway to pay slightly late but it doesn't change when the next payment is due.
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Not exactly. no.
My 'base' month is June so I expected to be able to work on this particular aircaft until end June (as operator would not be looking to pay for my renewal this year).
Now had letter saying it legal for me to work to end July but FAR's are unclear and i'm looking for clarification.
My 'base' month is June so I expected to be able to work on this particular aircaft until end June (as operator would not be looking to pay for my renewal this year).
Now had letter saying it legal for me to work to end July but FAR's are unclear and i'm looking for clarification.
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Are you operating Part 91 or 135
If 91, you are done at the end of June.
If 135 with a base month in June you can fly until the end of July.
This is assuming you are PIC. Your insurance company may also have a problem if you go past 12 months without a recurrent training event, even if Part 135.
If 135 with a base month in June you can fly until the end of July.
This is assuming you are PIC. Your insurance company may also have a problem if you go past 12 months without a recurrent training event, even if Part 135.
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61.58
Code of Federal Regulations
Hide details for Sec. 61.58Sec. 61.58
Part 61 CERTIFICATION: PILOTS, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS, AND GROUND INSTRUCTORS
Subpart A--General
Sec. 61.58
Pilot-in-command proficiency check: Operation of an aircraft that requires more than one pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, to serve as pilot in command of an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered, a person must--
(1) Within the preceding 12 calendar months, complete a pilot-in-command proficiency check in an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered; and
(2) Within the preceding 24 calendar months, complete a pilot-in-command proficiency check in the particular type of aircraft in which that person will serve as pilot in command, that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet- powered.
(b) This section does not apply to persons conducting operations under subpart K of part 91, part 121, 125, 133, 135, or 137 of this chapter, or persons maintaining continuing qualification under an Advanced Qualification program approved under subpart Y of part 121 of this chapter.
(c) The pilot-in-command proficiency check given in accordance with the provisions of subpart K or part 91, part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter may be used to satisfy the requirements of this section.
(d) The pilot-in-command proficiency check required by paragraph (a) of this section may be accomplished by satisfactory completion of one of the following:
(1) A pilot-in-command proficiency check conducted by a person authorized by the Administrator, consisting of the aeronautical knowledge areas, areas of operations, and tasks required for a type rating, in an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered;
(2) The practical test required for a type rating, in an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered;
(3) The initial or periodic practical test required for the issuance of a pilot examiner or check airman designation, in an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered;
(4) A pilot proficiency check administered by a U.S. Armed Force that qualifies the military pilot for pilot-in-command designation with instrument privileges, and was performed in a military aircraft that the military requires to be operated by more than one pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered;
(5) For a pilot authorized by the Administrator to operate an experimental turbojet-powered aircraft that possesses, by original design or through modification, more than a single seat, the required proficiency check for all of the experimental turbojet-powered aircraft for which the pilot holds an authorization may be accomplished by completing any one of the following:
(i) A single proficiency check, conducted by an examiner authorized by the Administrator, in any one of the experimental turbojet-powered aircraft for which the airman holds an authorization to operate if conducted within the prior 12 months;
(ii) A single proficiency check, conducted by an examiner authorized by the Administrator, in any experimental turbojet-powered aircraft (e.g., if a pilot acquires a new authorization to operate an additional experimental turbojet-powered aircraft, the check for that new authorization will meet the intent), if conducted within the prior 12 months;
(iii) Current qualification under an Advanced Qualification Program (AQP) under subpart Y of part 121 of this chapter;
(iv) Any proficiency check conducted under subpart K of part 91, part 121, or part 135 of this chapter within the prior 12 months if conducted in a turbojet-powered aircraft; or
(v) Any other Sec. 61.58 proficiency check conducted within the prior 12 months if conducted in a turbojet-powered aircraft.
(e) The pilot of a multi-seat experimental turbojet-powered aircraft who has not received a proficiency check within the prior 12 months in accordance with this section may continue to operate such aircraft in accordance with the pilot's authorizations. However, the pilot is prohibited from carriage of any persons in any experimental turbojet-powered aircraft with the exception of those individuals authorized by the Administrator to conduct training, conduct flight checks, or perform pilot certification functions in such aircraft, and only during flights specifically related to training, flight checks, or certification in such aircraft.
(f) This section will not apply to a pilot authorized by the Administrator to serve as pilot in command in experimental turbojet- powered aircraft that possesses, by original design, a single seat, when operating such single-seat aircraft.
(g) A check or test described in paragraphs paragraphs (d)(1) through (5) of this section may be accomplished in a flight simulator under part 142 of this chapter, subject to the following:
(1) Except as provided for in paragraphs (g)(2) and (3) of this section, if an otherwise qualified and approved flight simulator used for a pilot-in-command proficiency check is not qualified and approved for a specific required maneuver--
(i) The training center must annotate, in the applicant's training record, the maneuver or maneuvers omitted; and
(ii) Prior to acting as pilot in command, the pilot must demonstrate proficiency in each omitted maneuver in an aircraft or flight simulator qualified and approved for each omitted maneuver.
(2) If the flight simulator used pursuant to paragraph (g) of this section is not qualified and approved for circling approaches--
(i) The applicant's record must include the statement, "Proficiency in circling approaches not demonstrated"; and
(ii) The applicant may not perform circling approaches as pilot in command when weather conditions are less than the basic VFR conditions described in Sec. 91.155 of this chapter, until proficiency in circling approaches has been successfully demonstrated in a flight simulator qualified and approved for circling approaches or in an aircraft to a person authorized by the Administrator to conduct the check required by this section.
(3) If the flight simulator used pursuant to paragraph (g) of this section is not qualified and approved for landings, the applicant must--
(i) Hold a type rating in the airplane represented by the simulator; and
(ii) Have completed within the preceding 90 days at least three takeoffs and three landings (one to a full stop) as the sole manipulator of the flight controls in the type airplane for which the pilot-in-command proficiency check is sought.
(h) For the purpose of meeting the pilot-in-command proficiency check requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, a person may act as pilot in command of a flight under day VFR conditions or day IFR conditions if no person or property is carried, other than as necessary to demonstrate compliance with this part.
(i) If a pilot takes the pilot-in-command proficiency check required by this section in the calendar month before or the calendar month after the month in which it is due, the pilot is considered to have taken it in the month in which it was due for the purpose of computing when the next pilot- in-command proficiency check is due.
(j) A pilot-in-command of a turbojet powered aircraft that is type certificated for one pilot does not have to comply with the pilot-in- command proficiency check requirements in paragraphs (a)(1) and (a)(2) of this section until October 31, 2012.
(k) Unless required by the aircraft's operating limitations, a pilot-in-command of an experimental turbojet-powered aircraft does not have to comply with the pilot-in-command proficiency check requirements in paragraphs (a)(1) and (a)(2) of this section until October 31, 2012.
Amdt. 61-128, Eff. 10/31/2011
Hide details for Sec. 61.58Sec. 61.58
Part 61 CERTIFICATION: PILOTS, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS, AND GROUND INSTRUCTORS
Subpart A--General
Sec. 61.58
Pilot-in-command proficiency check: Operation of an aircraft that requires more than one pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, to serve as pilot in command of an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered, a person must--
(1) Within the preceding 12 calendar months, complete a pilot-in-command proficiency check in an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered; and
(2) Within the preceding 24 calendar months, complete a pilot-in-command proficiency check in the particular type of aircraft in which that person will serve as pilot in command, that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet- powered.
(b) This section does not apply to persons conducting operations under subpart K of part 91, part 121, 125, 133, 135, or 137 of this chapter, or persons maintaining continuing qualification under an Advanced Qualification program approved under subpart Y of part 121 of this chapter.
(c) The pilot-in-command proficiency check given in accordance with the provisions of subpart K or part 91, part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter may be used to satisfy the requirements of this section.
(d) The pilot-in-command proficiency check required by paragraph (a) of this section may be accomplished by satisfactory completion of one of the following:
(1) A pilot-in-command proficiency check conducted by a person authorized by the Administrator, consisting of the aeronautical knowledge areas, areas of operations, and tasks required for a type rating, in an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered;
(2) The practical test required for a type rating, in an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered;
(3) The initial or periodic practical test required for the issuance of a pilot examiner or check airman designation, in an aircraft that is type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered;
(4) A pilot proficiency check administered by a U.S. Armed Force that qualifies the military pilot for pilot-in-command designation with instrument privileges, and was performed in a military aircraft that the military requires to be operated by more than one pilot flight crewmember or is turbojet-powered;
(5) For a pilot authorized by the Administrator to operate an experimental turbojet-powered aircraft that possesses, by original design or through modification, more than a single seat, the required proficiency check for all of the experimental turbojet-powered aircraft for which the pilot holds an authorization may be accomplished by completing any one of the following:
(i) A single proficiency check, conducted by an examiner authorized by the Administrator, in any one of the experimental turbojet-powered aircraft for which the airman holds an authorization to operate if conducted within the prior 12 months;
(ii) A single proficiency check, conducted by an examiner authorized by the Administrator, in any experimental turbojet-powered aircraft (e.g., if a pilot acquires a new authorization to operate an additional experimental turbojet-powered aircraft, the check for that new authorization will meet the intent), if conducted within the prior 12 months;
(iii) Current qualification under an Advanced Qualification Program (AQP) under subpart Y of part 121 of this chapter;
(iv) Any proficiency check conducted under subpart K of part 91, part 121, or part 135 of this chapter within the prior 12 months if conducted in a turbojet-powered aircraft; or
(v) Any other Sec. 61.58 proficiency check conducted within the prior 12 months if conducted in a turbojet-powered aircraft.
(e) The pilot of a multi-seat experimental turbojet-powered aircraft who has not received a proficiency check within the prior 12 months in accordance with this section may continue to operate such aircraft in accordance with the pilot's authorizations. However, the pilot is prohibited from carriage of any persons in any experimental turbojet-powered aircraft with the exception of those individuals authorized by the Administrator to conduct training, conduct flight checks, or perform pilot certification functions in such aircraft, and only during flights specifically related to training, flight checks, or certification in such aircraft.
(f) This section will not apply to a pilot authorized by the Administrator to serve as pilot in command in experimental turbojet- powered aircraft that possesses, by original design, a single seat, when operating such single-seat aircraft.
(g) A check or test described in paragraphs paragraphs (d)(1) through (5) of this section may be accomplished in a flight simulator under part 142 of this chapter, subject to the following:
(1) Except as provided for in paragraphs (g)(2) and (3) of this section, if an otherwise qualified and approved flight simulator used for a pilot-in-command proficiency check is not qualified and approved for a specific required maneuver--
(i) The training center must annotate, in the applicant's training record, the maneuver or maneuvers omitted; and
(ii) Prior to acting as pilot in command, the pilot must demonstrate proficiency in each omitted maneuver in an aircraft or flight simulator qualified and approved for each omitted maneuver.
(2) If the flight simulator used pursuant to paragraph (g) of this section is not qualified and approved for circling approaches--
(i) The applicant's record must include the statement, "Proficiency in circling approaches not demonstrated"; and
(ii) The applicant may not perform circling approaches as pilot in command when weather conditions are less than the basic VFR conditions described in Sec. 91.155 of this chapter, until proficiency in circling approaches has been successfully demonstrated in a flight simulator qualified and approved for circling approaches or in an aircraft to a person authorized by the Administrator to conduct the check required by this section.
(3) If the flight simulator used pursuant to paragraph (g) of this section is not qualified and approved for landings, the applicant must--
(i) Hold a type rating in the airplane represented by the simulator; and
(ii) Have completed within the preceding 90 days at least three takeoffs and three landings (one to a full stop) as the sole manipulator of the flight controls in the type airplane for which the pilot-in-command proficiency check is sought.
(h) For the purpose of meeting the pilot-in-command proficiency check requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, a person may act as pilot in command of a flight under day VFR conditions or day IFR conditions if no person or property is carried, other than as necessary to demonstrate compliance with this part.
(i) If a pilot takes the pilot-in-command proficiency check required by this section in the calendar month before or the calendar month after the month in which it is due, the pilot is considered to have taken it in the month in which it was due for the purpose of computing when the next pilot- in-command proficiency check is due.
(j) A pilot-in-command of a turbojet powered aircraft that is type certificated for one pilot does not have to comply with the pilot-in- command proficiency check requirements in paragraphs (a)(1) and (a)(2) of this section until October 31, 2012.
(k) Unless required by the aircraft's operating limitations, a pilot-in-command of an experimental turbojet-powered aircraft does not have to comply with the pilot-in-command proficiency check requirements in paragraphs (a)(1) and (a)(2) of this section until October 31, 2012.
Amdt. 61-128, Eff. 10/31/2011
