Job on CitationXLS or Ryanair?
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Job on CitationXLS or Ryanair?
Hi guys I have a an Important decision to make. I'm a 700hr TT pilot with 300hrs on light turboprop.
I did an Interview and sim check with a biz jet operator, and have been on the waiting list for several months. In the meantime I attended a Ryanair assessment, and passed. I recently was informed that a position on the citation xls is available for me. The typerating is partly self funded I will be looking at approx £9000 out of my own pocket with a salary of about £2000/month after tax starting as FO. I would have to move to eastern europe but would be working for a western european company. I will be provided with the exact contract in a few days.
On the other hand I allready have a typerating starting date with ryanair and will have to make the £22000 payment for 737-NG rating within the next weeks. I would have to take on a loan in both cases... plus I'm getting close to 30 years old and this might be my last chance to get onto an airliner.
I'm really not sure what the right move here is.
What would you guys do?
I will have to make a choice within the next week.
I did an Interview and sim check with a biz jet operator, and have been on the waiting list for several months. In the meantime I attended a Ryanair assessment, and passed. I recently was informed that a position on the citation xls is available for me. The typerating is partly self funded I will be looking at approx £9000 out of my own pocket with a salary of about £2000/month after tax starting as FO. I would have to move to eastern europe but would be working for a western european company. I will be provided with the exact contract in a few days.
On the other hand I allready have a typerating starting date with ryanair and will have to make the £22000 payment for 737-NG rating within the next weeks. I would have to take on a loan in both cases... plus I'm getting close to 30 years old and this might be my last chance to get onto an airliner.
I'm really not sure what the right move here is.
What would you guys do?
I will have to make a choice within the next week.
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XLS XLS XLS XLS 
XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS XLS
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You're asking in the bizjet forum if you should join Ryanair! 
Of course you will receive completely impartial responses. Seems you already know what you want to do
Of course you will receive completely impartial responses. Seems you already know what you want to do
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Ok maybe I should post it in another forum aswell, to get an objective view on the opinions. To be honest I have doubts about living in eastern europe and it may sound odd but I think ryanair would offer more job security as their fleet is huge and they are still expanding...
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To be honest I have doubts about living in eastern europe...
....
I agree; go for the 737. After 1000 hours on the Boeing you will be eligable for employment on virtually any corporate jet.
If you find that you like airline work, that's great. If you find that you don't like it, stick it out for two years/1000 hours then look for a corporate job. The discipline instilled by airline flying will stand you in good stead for any future flying that you do.
Might seem unfair but that's been my experience sitting on both sides of the interview desk and line training candidates with varying backgrounds on airliners and exec jets over the past 35 years. The ex-airline guys and gals definitely had the edge over those who had never had that experience.
If you find that you like airline work, that's great. If you find that you don't like it, stick it out for two years/1000 hours then look for a corporate job. The discipline instilled by airline flying will stand you in good stead for any future flying that you do.
Might seem unfair but that's been my experience sitting on both sides of the interview desk and line training candidates with varying backgrounds on airliners and exec jets over the past 35 years. The ex-airline guys and gals definitely had the edge over those who had never had that experience.
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Ronand,
If you can afford the £13000 difference between the xls and 737 type ratings, GO for the 737 !!!!
As a relatively low-time pilot, you will get a lot of very valuable experience with Ryanair, and, in a couple of years, if you don't like it, you will probably have a lot more opportunities than you do now!
73, Ronand, 73!!
Regards,
Goose
(even though I fly the XLS myself...)
If you can afford the £13000 difference between the xls and 737 type ratings, GO for the 737 !!!!
As a relatively low-time pilot, you will get a lot of very valuable experience with Ryanair, and, in a couple of years, if you don't like it, you will probably have a lot more opportunities than you do now!
73, Ronand, 73!!
Regards,
Goose
(even though I fly the XLS myself...)
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Go for the ryanair job,
- 737 rating and experience, better then XLS-time (you know when you want to find another job)
- you're relatively low time and with ryan you'll do more sectors and lots of same routes but that will be easier for you to learn.
- you will always have a change to fly a bizjet if you like when you got the hours on the 737
only downside: take 22000 out of your pocket, jeez.
congrats with your new job, whatever it will be
- 737 rating and experience, better then XLS-time (you know when you want to find another job)
- you're relatively low time and with ryan you'll do more sectors and lots of same routes but that will be easier for you to learn.
- you will always have a change to fly a bizjet if you like when you got the hours on the 737
only downside: take 22000 out of your pocket, jeez.
congrats with your new job, whatever it will be
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Build up your experience first!
Even though I am also flying a bizjet, I have to tell you to take the 737.
Apart from the learning experience in a very standarized airline enviroment, it is much harder to build up your hours in a bizjet, some privately managed airplanes fly 2-300 hours per annum.
My advice: Get your feet wet and make the choice later!
Anyway, congrats on the job!
Apart from the learning experience in a very standarized airline enviroment, it is much harder to build up your hours in a bizjet, some privately managed airplanes fly 2-300 hours per annum.
My advice: Get your feet wet and make the choice later!
Anyway, congrats on the job!
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Hi Ronand,
Coming from the bizjet world myself (& I love the lifestyle), I would suggest you go for the XLS, however i tend to agree with those who suggest that you go for the 737.
A few hours in the 737 will get you into the biz jet world much easier if you find out that airline work is not for you & if it is .....well you are there already.
We all know that things at Ryanair are not ideal, however in my opinion this bizjet outfit is taking the p&%s when they are asking you to part pay the Type Rating, relocate to Eastern Europe (i guess at your own expense) & the salary is not that great either.....you might aswell provide the lube!!.
Good Luck with your future!
Coming from the bizjet world myself (& I love the lifestyle), I would suggest you go for the XLS, however i tend to agree with those who suggest that you go for the 737.
A few hours in the 737 will get you into the biz jet world much easier if you find out that airline work is not for you & if it is .....well you are there already.
We all know that things at Ryanair are not ideal, however in my opinion this bizjet outfit is taking the p&%s when they are asking you to part pay the Type Rating, relocate to Eastern Europe (i guess at your own expense) & the salary is not that great either.....you might aswell provide the lube!!.
Good Luck with your future!
Last edited by skylog; 18th Feb 2011 at 12:46.
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Go for the 737, even though it is a Ryanair job. I have been flying for over 20 years 10 in exec an 12 on the 737. I love Executive, but an airline job is just nice and boring. (scheduled days off etc.)
Nonetheless, with your experience I think that the 737 job is the fast lane for your career.
Nonetheless, with your experience I think that the 737 job is the fast lane for your career.
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Tough choice. You ask 5 pilots and get 7 different answers - that is to be expected.
Ryanair sucks, people say, but: you collect more jet hours in a shorter time, thus making you eligible for an upgrade faster. Also, the B737 rating is universally usable - these birds are just everywhere and even if you don't find in job in a JAA country, a broker would probably love to sell your a.. to a company in China, India or wherever.
The XLS is a valuable type rating to have, too. Nothing wrong with living in Eastern Europe (depending on where, that is).
Good luck!
Ryanair sucks, people say, but: you collect more jet hours in a shorter time, thus making you eligible for an upgrade faster. Also, the B737 rating is universally usable - these birds are just everywhere and even if you don't find in job in a JAA country, a broker would probably love to sell your a.. to a company in China, India or wherever.
The XLS is a valuable type rating to have, too. Nothing wrong with living in Eastern Europe (depending on where, that is).
Good luck!
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Probably you will struggle to do many hours driving the XLS (my max was 350 per year at NJE and more like 200 where I am now) so in order to increase your marketability, I would go for the Ryanair job to rapidly build hours & experience for unfreezing. You can always come back to Bizjets in the future (which offer a better lifestyle in my opinion - although only ever worked in this sector)
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Hi Ronand,
How times have changed.....!!
Having only worked in the Bizjet industry and not the airlines I can only give you one perspective.
I think it depends on your lifestyle.
Firstly, the role of GA is I expect very different to Airline. With GA, you do have to look after all aspects of the flight including the catering, ice, hot water, newspapers. You do have to deal with pax directly and if there are delays - you could be in the firing line with a barrage of abuse from a disgruntled passeneger who assumes that as they have paid thousands for the plane, they should be able to go when ever they want! You do have to clean the aircraft up including the hoovering and washing up - this part isn't as glamarous. You may or may not have a roster with your existing company but your working days could be fairly varied and you might not be able to guarantee when you will be working. This is why is say, "it depends on your lifefstyle". If your married and have dependants, the pro's and con's are that you are around a fair bit (during the quiet months) but can be away from 1 night to several nights away from your family (this could be a good or bad thing!). A lot of the jobs you do will mean being away from home. Plus, you might not know when you are working so its a little unstable. However, you routing is not structured. You could be in Geneva one day and then Moscow then next, its very varied and challenging as the airports you could be landing at have limited facilities i.e. NDB only...
In your type of aircraft, its below 10t where as the the 737 is a lot lot more. However, again, the role is similar in that you are flying in RVSM airspace at the same FLs (if not higher). Your paying £10000 for the XL rating compared to the 737 which is approx double. The flying part of the job is very similar (I think!)
In terms of prospects, as I said your flying an aircraft below 10t. It can be fairly limiting as a lot of the airlines will require experienced crew members with medium to heavy jet type if you chose to move on to the airlines at a later stage. You wont be doing the same sort of hours in GA compared to what you would be doing with the likes of Ryanair as you should expect around 350-400 hours per year for GA flying whereas you are sure to expect a lot more with Ryanair. So again, for career progression if you dont have a lot of hours then it will take you some time to climb the ladder.
Again, in terms of lifestyle. Its hard to make plans with your family and friends in GA. It is workable, only if you have an understanding partner and friends. If your roster permits, you might have one or two weekends a month off a month or none at all as the majority of the time, especially in the summer months, working Fridays - Sundays are the norm.
In regards of Pay. It depends....from my knowledge the majority of airline work is better paid however its not always that dissimlar. Sometimes it can be more....it just depends on who you work with.
Sorry to be harping on about lifestyle but it is so important. If your a single guy and have little responsibilities, its the best job! If your committed, then its very hard! Although, I am sure with the airlines its hard too as you dont have a normal 9-5 mon - fri job (but then you wouldn't be in flying if thats what you wanted!). However with the airlines there is (I believe from my mates) more structure...you know where you are from one month to the next. In GA your lucky if its the day before!!
If you need any further advice, pm me and more than happy to offer further advice.
How times have changed.....!!
Having only worked in the Bizjet industry and not the airlines I can only give you one perspective.
I think it depends on your lifestyle.
Firstly, the role of GA is I expect very different to Airline. With GA, you do have to look after all aspects of the flight including the catering, ice, hot water, newspapers. You do have to deal with pax directly and if there are delays - you could be in the firing line with a barrage of abuse from a disgruntled passeneger who assumes that as they have paid thousands for the plane, they should be able to go when ever they want! You do have to clean the aircraft up including the hoovering and washing up - this part isn't as glamarous. You may or may not have a roster with your existing company but your working days could be fairly varied and you might not be able to guarantee when you will be working. This is why is say, "it depends on your lifefstyle". If your married and have dependants, the pro's and con's are that you are around a fair bit (during the quiet months) but can be away from 1 night to several nights away from your family (this could be a good or bad thing!). A lot of the jobs you do will mean being away from home. Plus, you might not know when you are working so its a little unstable. However, you routing is not structured. You could be in Geneva one day and then Moscow then next, its very varied and challenging as the airports you could be landing at have limited facilities i.e. NDB only...
In your type of aircraft, its below 10t where as the the 737 is a lot lot more. However, again, the role is similar in that you are flying in RVSM airspace at the same FLs (if not higher). Your paying £10000 for the XL rating compared to the 737 which is approx double. The flying part of the job is very similar (I think!)
In terms of prospects, as I said your flying an aircraft below 10t. It can be fairly limiting as a lot of the airlines will require experienced crew members with medium to heavy jet type if you chose to move on to the airlines at a later stage. You wont be doing the same sort of hours in GA compared to what you would be doing with the likes of Ryanair as you should expect around 350-400 hours per year for GA flying whereas you are sure to expect a lot more with Ryanair. So again, for career progression if you dont have a lot of hours then it will take you some time to climb the ladder.
Again, in terms of lifestyle. Its hard to make plans with your family and friends in GA. It is workable, only if you have an understanding partner and friends. If your roster permits, you might have one or two weekends a month off a month or none at all as the majority of the time, especially in the summer months, working Fridays - Sundays are the norm.
In regards of Pay. It depends....from my knowledge the majority of airline work is better paid however its not always that dissimlar. Sometimes it can be more....it just depends on who you work with.
Sorry to be harping on about lifestyle but it is so important. If your a single guy and have little responsibilities, its the best job! If your committed, then its very hard! Although, I am sure with the airlines its hard too as you dont have a normal 9-5 mon - fri job (but then you wouldn't be in flying if thats what you wanted!). However with the airlines there is (I believe from my mates) more structure...you know where you are from one month to the next. In GA your lucky if its the day before!!
If you need any further advice, pm me and more than happy to offer further advice.
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Well done, one hardly hears of job offers these days!
The very few really happy pilots I know of are either well up the seniority-list at a MAJOR carrier, e.g. KLM, B.A., Cathay, etc., or have worked their way up in general aviation over many years and now fly the bigger bizjets which tend to come with proper rostering, good pay, decent colleagues and a bit of stability.
Starting at the bottom in a low-cost airline is obviously going to be tough, just as cleaning the Citations potty in a blizzard in eastern climes while waiting for the mobile to ring is no picnic. But with Ryanair you will get excellent training, good exposure (lots and lots of approaches) and you will quickly build hours, as previous posters have mentioned. The problem with starting out with low hours straight into a bizjet is that progression takes forever. Plenty of very frustrated bizjet FO's out there who never took the time to build a few hours before jumping into the shiny jet.
Maybe take the 737, get say 3000 hours, then try to get in with the likes of TAG, JET, Execujet or Comlux, to name a few. The better bizjet operators treat their employees well and the lifestyle can be very good.
Who knows, you might even enjoy airline?
Best of luck either way, keep us posted!
The very few really happy pilots I know of are either well up the seniority-list at a MAJOR carrier, e.g. KLM, B.A., Cathay, etc., or have worked their way up in general aviation over many years and now fly the bigger bizjets which tend to come with proper rostering, good pay, decent colleagues and a bit of stability.
Starting at the bottom in a low-cost airline is obviously going to be tough, just as cleaning the Citations potty in a blizzard in eastern climes while waiting for the mobile to ring is no picnic. But with Ryanair you will get excellent training, good exposure (lots and lots of approaches) and you will quickly build hours, as previous posters have mentioned. The problem with starting out with low hours straight into a bizjet is that progression takes forever. Plenty of very frustrated bizjet FO's out there who never took the time to build a few hours before jumping into the shiny jet.
Maybe take the 737, get say 3000 hours, then try to get in with the likes of TAG, JET, Execujet or Comlux, to name a few. The better bizjet operators treat their employees well and the lifestyle can be very good.
Who knows, you might even enjoy airline?
Best of luck either way, keep us posted!
