Job on CitationXLS or Ryanair?
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I was in a similar situation few years ago. I decided to quit the bizjet world for a while to fly buses for a low cost carrier and recently I've been promoted on the left seat. I will stay a bit longer to get PIC experience and the I'll start to look again the bizjet market.
Go for the 737 job
Go for the 737 job
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Position Choice.
I personally have read all the links etc and knowing the industry well and your particular circumstances I would offer the advice as possible.
Corporate
Its a great position your being offered with your Low TT in addition flying a nice corporate Jet, down side to this working in corporate these positions can leave as soon as they arrive in addition you will at best do maybe 400 hours a year.
Ryan Air
we all know how good bad and indifferent the Airline can be etc, working under EU OPS lots of sectors, weather, passenger loading MMEL items, crew duty times, crappy hotels, Fuel police on your case. 900 hours max per year.
This is the best OJT you can get at your level and take the 700 rating do you time and in 3 years time you should have 3500 hours under your belt.
You need to be in a structured operation gain all of the above and then consider the choices.
Your a very lucky person to have options I know so many TYPE RATED Pilots looking for work.
Good Luck in your choices.
Corporate
Its a great position your being offered with your Low TT in addition flying a nice corporate Jet, down side to this working in corporate these positions can leave as soon as they arrive in addition you will at best do maybe 400 hours a year.
Ryan Air
we all know how good bad and indifferent the Airline can be etc, working under EU OPS lots of sectors, weather, passenger loading MMEL items, crew duty times, crappy hotels, Fuel police on your case. 900 hours max per year.
This is the best OJT you can get at your level and take the 700 rating do you time and in 3 years time you should have 3500 hours under your belt.
You need to be in a structured operation gain all of the above and then consider the choices.
Your a very lucky person to have options I know so many TYPE RATED Pilots looking for work.
Good Luck in your choices.
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Sorry Old chap had to bite.....
Its easy to be disciplined in an airline as the mode of flying lends itself to repetition, at FR you will see the destinations that they fly to from your base and thats it. SOP's are much easier to apply in those cases as you know the routes and the likely curve balls that ATC will throw at you.
Now imagine jumping in your XL on a Monday and not knowing if the sector after next will take you N/S/E or west. CRM demands are greater as you will no doubt be spending extended periods with your other pilot including evenings out possibly and you must have that chameleon factor to be able to get along without friction.
In addition you will be encouraged/required to fly outside of CAS into smaller airfields, encouraged to join with other VFR traffic you will find yourself behind a PA28 downwind at 130 knots.
You will NEVER get that mix of flying at an airline, its why airline guys who to be honest in the main (sorry to generalise) stumble from one radar environment to another can take a long time to line train.
I know lots of Airline guys who cant file a flight plan. If you cant think on your feet join Ryanair.
Also regardless of weight and if requested you can see rates of climb and or huge rates of acceleration that you will never ever see in an airline environment. If you can handle that every day any boeing or bus TR will not be a problem going forward.
Its a no brainer. Go for the 737 and learn some airline disciplin.
Now imagine jumping in your XL on a Monday and not knowing if the sector after next will take you N/S/E or west. CRM demands are greater as you will no doubt be spending extended periods with your other pilot including evenings out possibly and you must have that chameleon factor to be able to get along without friction.
In addition you will be encouraged/required to fly outside of CAS into smaller airfields, encouraged to join with other VFR traffic you will find yourself behind a PA28 downwind at 130 knots.
You will NEVER get that mix of flying at an airline, its why airline guys who to be honest in the main (sorry to generalise) stumble from one radar environment to another can take a long time to line train.
I know lots of Airline guys who cant file a flight plan. If you cant think on your feet join Ryanair.
Also regardless of weight and if requested you can see rates of climb and or huge rates of acceleration that you will never ever see in an airline environment. If you can handle that every day any boeing or bus TR will not be a problem going forward.
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Career ambitions
Depends what your ambitions are but realistically to upgrade you will be joining either a middle eastern airline or asian since they are the only ones with a degree of growth:
http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/28...ds-merged.html
http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/24...need-know.html
http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/28...ds-merged.html
http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/24...need-know.html
Join Date: Apr 2003
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No brainer, FR. Hours, some tricky destinations onto runways that are performace limiting etc.. Will be much more difficult going from corporate to Airline than the other way.
I did my first 1000H on light twin turboprobs. The next 10 years with two major airlines. Now recently entered Biz Jet aviation and have a lot to learn - from this part of our industry and looking forward to it. So far so good.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Airline standard of training and checking will be beneficial for your flying career forever. It will teach you SOPs and attitudes that you later on will apprecite in the Biz Jet environment where a lot of decisions will be left up to you as a commander and help to be found is limited.
At the end of the day though - the question really is what kind of lifestyle and flying you are looking for. "Boring" low-coast airline flying from A to B getting burned out or more interesting and diverse Corporate Biz Jet flying with lots of exciting flying with or without autopilot engaged.
The Biz Jet job will later on give you an opportunity to work something like 16on/14off and you can live where you want - but you are away from you family for a long periode of time. The arline job you may be at home - as I belive in Ryanair's case - ever night - but will you be "there" and awake or bured out
If you want an "easy" and comfortable job - go for the airline flying. Things will be in some sort of order.
I left some very comfortable airline jobs behind to join this Biz Jet industry and though the beginning havn't been the easiest of kind - I do not look back missing the airline job for a single second - though I would never have been without it either!
If I was you I would ask myself what you want with your life in say five years time from now. Whichever of the two job opportunities you believe will get you best positioned for the job providing you with that lifestyle choice - go for it.
If you after all are still in doubt - go for the Airline job now and evaluate the market and situation again after a couple of years!
Best of luck and happy for you lucky position
There is no doubt in my mind that the Airline standard of training and checking will be beneficial for your flying career forever. It will teach you SOPs and attitudes that you later on will apprecite in the Biz Jet environment where a lot of decisions will be left up to you as a commander and help to be found is limited.
At the end of the day though - the question really is what kind of lifestyle and flying you are looking for. "Boring" low-coast airline flying from A to B getting burned out or more interesting and diverse Corporate Biz Jet flying with lots of exciting flying with or without autopilot engaged.
The Biz Jet job will later on give you an opportunity to work something like 16on/14off and you can live where you want - but you are away from you family for a long periode of time. The arline job you may be at home - as I belive in Ryanair's case - ever night - but will you be "there" and awake or bured out
If you want an "easy" and comfortable job - go for the airline flying. Things will be in some sort of order.
I left some very comfortable airline jobs behind to join this Biz Jet industry and though the beginning havn't been the easiest of kind - I do not look back missing the airline job for a single second - though I would never have been without it either!
If I was you I would ask myself what you want with your life in say five years time from now. Whichever of the two job opportunities you believe will get you best positioned for the job providing you with that lifestyle choice - go for it.
If you after all are still in doubt - go for the Airline job now and evaluate the market and situation again after a couple of years!
Best of luck and happy for you lucky position
BestAviation.net
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you can always go corporate later
If money isn't a limiting factor then the 737 job may be a good idea. Corporate you can always come back to, airline jobs you will grow too old for. Besides, at 900H on some heavier stuff every year you will build some valuable time quickly. In corporate you don't fly that much...
I know a few airline guys who have later gone corporate. I don't know many who have gone the other way (or maybe that's just because biz jets are so much more fun?
)
I know a few airline guys who have later gone corporate. I don't know many who have gone the other way (or maybe that's just because biz jets are so much more fun?
)
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If you wouldn't have to pay for either rating, I would go for the 73. Then again it's all about what you want from your career, what lifestyle you prefer, your family situation, etc...
See above replies.
See above replies.
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Would advise you to go to RYR, purely for the likelyhood that you'll recieve more consistent training to a likely higher standard. You'll also benefit from a more structured SOP environment whilst you learn your trade.
Many many guys and girls struggle with the bizjet to airline transition, the same certainly isn't true with airline to bizjet (just look at TAG, Nietjets..plus a few more besides) although to be fair, it is a totally different world to airline flying.
I've flown GA, Airlines, then went to Bizjets, and am now working back in the Airlines. My personal preference would have been to stay in the Bizjet world..but with a wife, kiddies and mortgage..bizjets just dont offer that financial security...unless of course you are one of the 5% or so who bag a job with a great owner/family who view you as an idespensible member of their team.
Go to RYR, experience the life...then when you are settled and dont have to think too hard about actually flying anymore...have a look at bizjets if you are still interested.
One last thing...the biggest issue ex airline guys face with their transition to bizjets is quite simple..FLEXIBILITY...so if you are prepared to be flexible...a few thousand 737 hours will look good on your CV, better in fact than 500 XLS hours to the vast majority of mid-sized and larger bizjet operators (cos they pay better!)
Many many guys and girls struggle with the bizjet to airline transition, the same certainly isn't true with airline to bizjet (just look at TAG, Nietjets..plus a few more besides) although to be fair, it is a totally different world to airline flying.
I've flown GA, Airlines, then went to Bizjets, and am now working back in the Airlines. My personal preference would have been to stay in the Bizjet world..but with a wife, kiddies and mortgage..bizjets just dont offer that financial security...unless of course you are one of the 5% or so who bag a job with a great owner/family who view you as an idespensible member of their team.
Go to RYR, experience the life...then when you are settled and dont have to think too hard about actually flying anymore...have a look at bizjets if you are still interested.
One last thing...the biggest issue ex airline guys face with their transition to bizjets is quite simple..FLEXIBILITY...so if you are prepared to be flexible...a few thousand 737 hours will look good on your CV, better in fact than 500 XLS hours to the vast majority of mid-sized and larger bizjet operators (cos they pay better!)
G-SPOTs Lost, sorry old chap but I have to bite back (and its not a biz vz airline thing)
I have to take issue with your comments here, with respect to guys taking longer to train..crm..and of course the lack of a plan thats common in the corporate world.
I would argue that this is PRECISELY why coming from (lets be honest) a far more structured and regulated environment stands someone with a lower level of experience a far better chance of learning good habits, rather than some of the less than desireable things I've seen from certain small jet operators.
Also, FWIW, yes its a BIG generalisation to say airliners stumble from one radar environ to another...but not always, as a case in point, I took a 777 into an airport recently...and was number 2 behind a PA-23.
CRM I wold say is in a general sense far easier in corporate..simply because you DO get to know who you are flying with..and unless you are a sociopath, it tends to allow you to figure the other bod out...it makes for a CRM level that exceeds most airliner flightdecks...unless of course you fly with one of those "unique" single pilot personalities that seem to mostly inhabit the GA ranks.
For a 700hr guy..with little real world exposure..RYR is the better option.
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Haughtney
I actually agree with you, but would still like to disagree on a couple of points.
Your tale of following a Piper in your 777 is very quaint but how many of those do you do compared to being put on the localiser at 12 miles and flying 160 to 4 - be honest.
In corporate you might well be on the road for 7 days at a time with the same guy, its quite a bit different from knowing that 15 minutes after brakes on you'll be walking out to the staff car park together probably not having to enjoy each others company for another 3-6 months. Its not easier or harder its just different and not everybody is able to do it, its a big part of the recruitment process and your comment about it being far easier shows a little naivety to the situation imvho.
Different disciplines requiring different skill sets over and above the common stick and rudder skills applicable to both that we take for granted. Not difficult to learn by any means just takes a bit of time.
Airline SOP's are there in the main to account for the lowest common denominator in terms of ability and to save money and reduce risk...in that order.
But for the record probably FR - you're right
I actually agree with you, but would still like to disagree on a couple of points.
Your tale of following a Piper in your 777 is very quaint but how many of those do you do compared to being put on the localiser at 12 miles and flying 160 to 4 - be honest.
In corporate you might well be on the road for 7 days at a time with the same guy, its quite a bit different from knowing that 15 minutes after brakes on you'll be walking out to the staff car park together probably not having to enjoy each others company for another 3-6 months. Its not easier or harder its just different and not everybody is able to do it, its a big part of the recruitment process and your comment about it being far easier shows a little naivety to the situation imvho.
Different disciplines requiring different skill sets over and above the common stick and rudder skills applicable to both that we take for granted. Not difficult to learn by any means just takes a bit of time.
Airline SOP's are there in the main to account for the lowest common denominator in terms of ability and to save money and reduce risk...in that order.
But for the record probably FR - you're right
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GA operators=piece of string!
With FR you know what youre letting youself in for. GA covers a whole spectrum of operations, lifestyles, duties, rosters (or not)....
You need to find out as much as you can about the XLS outfit as you can. It has the potential to provide a far more satisfying range of flying, but it also has the potential for you to fly with the same frustrating tosspot week after week!!
A job with a GOOD GA outfit is better than life with Ryanair.
Ryanair is far better than a life in a poor GA company!...IMHO
You need to find out as much as you can about the XLS outfit as you can. It has the potential to provide a far more satisfying range of flying, but it also has the potential for you to fly with the same frustrating tosspot week after week!!
A job with a GOOD GA outfit is better than life with Ryanair.
Ryanair is far better than a life in a poor GA company!...IMHO
