To those seeking work
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To those seeking work
A friendly word of advice, these days there are more pilots than jobs. When you see a position advertised with firmly stated minimus, do the poor guy a favour and do not apply if you do not meet those minimums. It is highly unlikely that the person having to review the huge amount of applications has the authority to change it so it will just be deleted and you (and all the others) have only wasted their time. There is no doubt that there will be many who exceed the minimum requirements by far so you really have no chance. In some cases I receive multiple applications from the same source when the qualifications are hardly enough to be a AFI. I feel for you all, we have all been there but these are cold hard facts, insurance companies are only interested in numbers, if you need a type rating, thats it, minimum hours are just that and you will not endear yourself to anyone by making them wade through a bunch of irrelevant applictions.
Having said that, very best of luck to you all.
Having said that, very best of luck to you all.
Last edited by NuName; 4th Dec 2010 at 03:44.
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An opposing view...
Companies routinely put people with questionable hours and credentials in planes all the time...if they want them.....on the other hand...no one knows the insurance premium of a pilot until that pilot has been put in front of the insurance company..
and that said....
In reality it's cheaper insurance wise to hire a ten thousand hour captain with no GV type but with 4000 hours of PIC jet time, then a 2000 hour pilot with a GV type and 100 hours of SIC...so everytime they want that 100 hours in type...
Translate : We don't want to have to pay for your training...we want someone else too....we are shopping training...not pilots.
Bottom line....most companies are chumming for a pilot who will move for free, come to them with a paid type, work for cheap.....and regardless of what the stated qualifications are....you can meet or exceed the stated qualification of what is advertised...then lo and behold the chief pilot hired the boss's nephew with zip flight time..
Just send in your resumes...you never know...you might get hired after they sift through all other guys.....because in the end, they hire who they want anyway...regardless of what they said they want.
Companies routinely put people with questionable hours and credentials in planes all the time...if they want them.....on the other hand...no one knows the insurance premium of a pilot until that pilot has been put in front of the insurance company..
and that said....
In reality it's cheaper insurance wise to hire a ten thousand hour captain with no GV type but with 4000 hours of PIC jet time, then a 2000 hour pilot with a GV type and 100 hours of SIC...so everytime they want that 100 hours in type...
Translate : We don't want to have to pay for your training...we want someone else too....we are shopping training...not pilots.
Bottom line....most companies are chumming for a pilot who will move for free, come to them with a paid type, work for cheap.....and regardless of what the stated qualifications are....you can meet or exceed the stated qualification of what is advertised...then lo and behold the chief pilot hired the boss's nephew with zip flight time..
Just send in your resumes...you never know...you might get hired after they sift through all other guys.....because in the end, they hire who they want anyway...regardless of what they said they want.
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Don't be fooled, questionable hours/credentials? I was not referring to such sharp practice and have no knowledge of this. The insurance certificate would normaly clearly state the minimum requirements for crew. When I am looking for a crewmember I know what I wish for, and so do all the others. We don't advertise for certain qualifications as a joke, we need them. My comments are in the main are to do with small corporate operations that do not have the facilities to offer ab initio introduction into the biz jet world, you get hired, jump in and do the job. The minimums are what has been decided you will need to do this.
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Not so easy to read the minds of the recruiters
If the initial min requirements are not met, then the recruiter MIGHT be able to find a most (on perfect) applicant, and propose to the company.
if the CP is actually recruiting, then sometimes the min requirements are set in rock, but sometimes NOT.
I would always suggest that IF you beleive that your abilities and qualifications make you suitable for that post, regardless of the mins stated then go for it.
For example Emirates say NO TP time will be credited. Unless they need you, and then the rules change.
glf
if the CP is actually recruiting, then sometimes the min requirements are set in rock, but sometimes NOT.
I would always suggest that IF you beleive that your abilities and qualifications make you suitable for that post, regardless of the mins stated then go for it.
For example Emirates say NO TP time will be credited. Unless they need you, and then the rules change.
glf
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I did think long and hard before making this post, I am not trying to be negative at all. Sure, if you come close to the requirements go for it, I'm talking about when jet time is required a C150 is all thats there, when 1500 hours are required 300 is offered when a type is required there is none just the C150 and 300 hours. This what I am pointing out here, nothing else, just keep it realistic. And I really do wish all the starters out there the best of luck, that and the right place at the right time is still working.
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NuName, can understand that all the irrelevant applications can take time to trawl through, equally i can also understand the mindset of those now trying in vain to apply even without the requisite hours/rating/contacts (can't blame them really can you ??) - in order to prevent a few applications landing on your desk/email, feel free to name your company/organisation and what you require and i'm sure that will remove a few applications that might have otherwise not met requirements but landed on your desk anyway.
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OutsideCAS, I appreciate the suggestion but the ad is out there with the conditions stated in no unceratin terms, I fear that any more exposure would only increase the amount of work for me. I do not like to not reply to all those who take the trouble to apply, but its becoming ridiculous.
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Those who are likely to agree with your suggestion don't need prompting, and those who don't agree will carry on regardless, therefore I would suggest that you have unfortunately wasted your time here.
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Contrarian
A buddy of mine got a GV job with no jet time as f/o with upgrade one year later for less tan half price of a rated captain. Captain with 000' hours on F50.
i suppose the inhibiting factor is insurance in many cases
i suppose the inhibiting factor is insurance in many cases
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NuName,
For a very important and busy person (wasn't that the bottom line of your posting?),
you sure seem to have a lot of time to react to a PPRUNE post every hour or so.
Maybe your time was better spent on getting the quality people out of those resumes......
johns7022, spot on.
It is about money nowadays, typerating with experience and too many operators don't even send their pilots to simulators anymore, LPC on the airplane.
The quality of our profession is sinking rapidly.
CJP
For a very important and busy person (wasn't that the bottom line of your posting?),
you sure seem to have a lot of time to react to a PPRUNE post every hour or so.
Maybe your time was better spent on getting the quality people out of those resumes......
johns7022, spot on.
It is about money nowadays, typerating with experience and too many operators don't even send their pilots to simulators anymore, LPC on the airplane.
The quality of our profession is sinking rapidly.
CJP
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corporatejetpilot
I am sorry if I have upset you, were you one of the applicants I was talking about? I have plenty of time now having found the pilot I was looking for, I don't fly for another six hours. Of course when our pilot decided to leave on short notice we could have just stopped flying, but no, there are many qualified and unemployed pilots out there so we didnt have to. Yes, johns7022 is spot on about many things, for some. And I have just re-read my posting, where does it say that I am a "very important and busy person", I have no idea why your venom is directed against me, I am only trying to give someone a job, what do you find wrong with that. I just have to think to myself, if I say in the ad, do not apply if you do not have blah blah blah and somebody does anyway, did they read the ad? did they understand the ad? do they always disregard written instructions? were they using initiative as there situation was so close to what was required? or do they just send off applications to anyone for anything in the hope of trawling something? You try wading through a couple of hundred applications when only 5% are viable. No I'm not an important person, reasonably busy and just trying to make a living.
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NuName,
I agree that it can be a bit irritating receiving applications from those who do not meet the experience requirements that one may seek, but a post such as yours will never stop it happening, especially when the employment market is as it is now.
If you made it clear in your advert that only those meeting your criteria will be considered, then you have two options; either ignore those who you feel are wasting your time, or have a standard email reply stating "sorry, you do not meet the advertised requirements, so can not be considered for the vacancy."
It may be a minor inconvenience, but is it such a big deal? Are you advertising for crew every month? I suspect not. The time spent here posting on the topic could have been better spent writing "thanks, but no thanks" to the unfortunate hopefuls who are perhaps desperate to find their first job.
I agree that it can be a bit irritating receiving applications from those who do not meet the experience requirements that one may seek, but a post such as yours will never stop it happening, especially when the employment market is as it is now.
If you made it clear in your advert that only those meeting your criteria will be considered, then you have two options; either ignore those who you feel are wasting your time, or have a standard email reply stating "sorry, you do not meet the advertised requirements, so can not be considered for the vacancy."
It may be a minor inconvenience, but is it such a big deal? Are you advertising for crew every month? I suspect not. The time spent here posting on the topic could have been better spent writing "thanks, but no thanks" to the unfortunate hopefuls who are perhaps desperate to find their first job.
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Well maybe you are right, maybe I'm becoming the grinch, maybe a guy who gets lucky in the bar tonight will get a job as a gynaecologist tomorrow. I will take your advice and just ignore them, no big deal I suppose. It seems the overwhelming opinion is to ignore what the position actualy asks for, times have changed I guess, and I'll have to change with it. After all delete is only one button.
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How about a note on the advert stating all applicants not meeting the criteria will not be considered now or at any point in the future for your company.
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I think you have to be realistic and at times read between the lines when you apply. Sometimes you can see that whoever set the requirements has no clue. Honestly some requirements leave me scratching my head as to how they decided what they require, they certainly aint insurance requirements.
I saw an add the other day, if I can find it I will post it. They wanted pilots for some bizjet, absolute min was 500 hours on type 2000 hours, something like that. They were also looking for a TRE/TRI? That must mean that they have people to train that don't have the minimums they require in the ad. I would say in a case like that it might be worth a shot putting an app in regardless of qualifications.
I saw an add the other day, if I can find it I will post it. They wanted pilots for some bizjet, absolute min was 500 hours on type 2000 hours, something like that. They were also looking for a TRE/TRI? That must mean that they have people to train that don't have the minimums they require in the ad. I would say in a case like that it might be worth a shot putting an app in regardless of qualifications.
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NuName, I understand your feelings. Had the same happen to me the last time we advertised. Stupid as I am, I answered every application (thought it was good style) and the work is considerable, more so cause it went off my free time.
Still, good luck to anyone looking for a position.
Still, good luck to anyone looking for a position.
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If I was a VIP pilot/flight attendant looking for work, I would apply to ANYTHING that I remotely qualified for!
Just by looking at the amount of people posting their details here, hoping to strike gold, there are still alot of cold calls/letters to be made.
The biz av business is so full of sh
, overrated requirements, arrogance and hot air that every opportunity is still a fair chance to get a job/lead.
I truly hope that this subject will hold alot less threads next year and most of us will find employment (again).
Happy holidays!
Just by looking at the amount of people posting their details here, hoping to strike gold, there are still alot of cold calls/letters to be made.
The biz av business is so full of sh
, overrated requirements, arrogance and hot air that every opportunity is still a fair chance to get a job/lead.I truly hope that this subject will hold alot less threads next year and most of us will find employment (again).
Happy holidays!
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These are desperate times and have been for a year or more. There are a lot of over-optimistic applicants out there and you can't really blame them for trying, though I'm sure it does make your task a bit more onerous. In the good times the under-qualified guys would have stood a better chance at getting into an airline or persuading a bizjet operator to give them an office job with the possibility of a type rating later. But that aint happening at the moment, so they will try anything to try and land any job. Its just the way it is at the moment ...