Ambeo
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bristol
Age: 54
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
James,
No apology needed, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion. I'm not sure how long you've been doing this flying stuff, but there are many here who wouldn't necessarily let the view of one FOI feature so prominenty in influencing their opinion. Personally I don't fly, so am steered by people with the experience to make that decision.
Overall everyone seems split fairly evenly into one of two camps (Sim or aircraft), and I think you need to look further at the whole training experience rather than the 2 individual events to find what is right for the bigger picture of your personal organisation. If your 2 visits to flight safety are the total extent of the training received in a 13 month period you may be right.
Phil
No apology needed, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion. I'm not sure how long you've been doing this flying stuff, but there are many here who wouldn't necessarily let the view of one FOI feature so prominenty in influencing their opinion. Personally I don't fly, so am steered by people with the experience to make that decision.
Overall everyone seems split fairly evenly into one of two camps (Sim or aircraft), and I think you need to look further at the whole training experience rather than the 2 individual events to find what is right for the bigger picture of your personal organisation. If your 2 visits to flight safety are the total extent of the training received in a 13 month period you may be right.
Phil
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Location: Location:
Age: 53
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we've danced this waltz on other threads fairly recently and a lot of the points alluded to regarding oversight or lack of on a day to day basis are valid and probably being put across better here than in the past.
Phil
You vindicate a/c training because its what you do.
I have a very good personal freind that did 5 hours + test in one of your aircraft and listened to a couple of days in the classroom and legally walked away with the 525 rating
Its not enough imho.
Safety is not about Chuck Yeager reaction times its about knowing the systems inside out and back to front The level of sophistication in the sim and CBT classroom spread over a couple of weeks just makes a better product.
The availability of repetative training or "batting practise" in the sim alone trumps training in the aircraft, you might do one V1 RTO in the aircraft maybe two (tempting a brake fire [ ask me how I know ]), you could do 10 in 10 minutes in the sim as well as many other things that would give your a/c insurer a baby.
Your comments about training on the aircraft you intend to fly aren't really valid as the sim might only have small differences in avionics or customer options such as different FMS's - the electrical/hydraulic/controls are the same and these will be the things that crews need most training on and where the training should be focused.
This is one of the reasons without covering old ground that I took umbridge at the derision of corporate operators in some of yours and FNPL's previous posts.
The guy fresh of the sim course will be better trained to deal with real life emergencys than somebody who has done one of your 5-8 hour TR's. I know it, the insurers that offer a discount in premiums know it and probably you do as well (setting the fact that you train on the aircraft to one side for a second)
The CAA can only enforce you to be legal to the minimum required standard , in difficult economic times its difficult to take training to the next level and turn a profit so which one comes first? which brings us all back to this invisible shield of AOC safety that all AOC holders think is provided by the CAA stamped certificate on the wall.
Having said all that from speaking to Barnesy the other day, you're very busy and staying safe at the same time so you're obviously doing something right... long may it continue
Phil
You vindicate a/c training because its what you do.
I have a very good personal freind that did 5 hours + test in one of your aircraft and listened to a couple of days in the classroom and legally walked away with the 525 rating
Its not enough imho.
Safety is not about Chuck Yeager reaction times its about knowing the systems inside out and back to front The level of sophistication in the sim and CBT classroom spread over a couple of weeks just makes a better product.
The availability of repetative training or "batting practise" in the sim alone trumps training in the aircraft, you might do one V1 RTO in the aircraft maybe two (tempting a brake fire [ ask me how I know ]), you could do 10 in 10 minutes in the sim as well as many other things that would give your a/c insurer a baby.
Your comments about training on the aircraft you intend to fly aren't really valid as the sim might only have small differences in avionics or customer options such as different FMS's - the electrical/hydraulic/controls are the same and these will be the things that crews need most training on and where the training should be focused.
This is one of the reasons without covering old ground that I took umbridge at the derision of corporate operators in some of yours and FNPL's previous posts.
The guy fresh of the sim course will be better trained to deal with real life emergencys than somebody who has done one of your 5-8 hour TR's. I know it, the insurers that offer a discount in premiums know it and probably you do as well (setting the fact that you train on the aircraft to one side for a second)
The CAA can only enforce you to be legal to the minimum required standard , in difficult economic times its difficult to take training to the next level and turn a profit so which one comes first? which brings us all back to this invisible shield of AOC safety that all AOC holders think is provided by the CAA stamped certificate on the wall.
Having said all that from speaking to Barnesy the other day, you're very busy and staying safe at the same time so you're obviously doing something right... long may it continue
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 962
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've had dealings with Ambeo, and, sure, they're new, but they make the effort and take it seriously. I've seen no evidence of any corner cutting whatsoever when it comes to safety- they (quite rightly) toe the line. The chap who runs the ops is very experienced, which helps a great deal I think. They have one or two low-ish hour co-joes (I have no idea as to actual figures and may be talking out of my hat) but I have seen firsthand that they always put them with an experienced captain.
Personally, I wouldn't have started a charter outfit with Mustangs, but that's just because of the range when you're 3 or 4-up. They are however new, modern and safe aircraft, and cheaper to operate than CJs.
Also, I know that they are fairly busy, and that's always a good sign!
Personally, I wouldn't have started a charter outfit with Mustangs, but that's just because of the range when you're 3 or 4-up. They are however new, modern and safe aircraft, and cheaper to operate than CJs.
Also, I know that they are fairly busy, and that's always a good sign!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 14 days away 14 at home
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Phil
Quote:
Our TRTO generally does the airborne training on the actual aircraft the crews are going to fly, it seems to make more sense than using a generic Sim.
Rubbish, for all the reasons above. Our FOI has clearly stated he would prefer all training to be completed in the sim, and would look very favourably on operators using the aircraft moving to using the sim for at least every second check. If you honestly believe your own statement I would be very surprised.
This is dragging on a bit. All I'm trying to get across is that out of all AOC holders there are ones who pay more attention to training and standards than others.
Quote:
Our TRTO generally does the airborne training on the actual aircraft the crews are going to fly, it seems to make more sense than using a generic Sim.
Rubbish, for all the reasons above. Our FOI has clearly stated he would prefer all training to be completed in the sim, and would look very favourably on operators using the aircraft moving to using the sim for at least every second check. If you honestly believe your own statement I would be very surprised.
This is dragging on a bit. All I'm trying to get across is that out of all AOC holders there are ones who pay more attention to training and standards than others.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Horley
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ambeo
Speaking from a neutral standpoint i have used Ambeo and have to admit they have saved my skin when another operator pulled an aircraft on me. so perhaps my view maybe more bias than others.
Though i have not personally flown them i have arranged a multitude of flights with them and on every occasion i have always had a positive feedback from the passengers.
Some may say their weakness is that they are new to this industry and only have a small fleet but conversely i rather think this is to their advantage.
They understand that they have have to obtain market share not only by being competitive but also by offering a service to which i would say they are at the time i write this acheiveing very well.
The aircraft (Mustang) is an interesting little aircraft and is perfect for small trips
However, and i write this as passenger not as a pilot the mustang does have it's limitations. compared to the Bravo (NJE smallest cessna) it does not have a toilet at the rear and is not really suitable for 4 adults in the back.
Baggage space can also be a consideration but in my personal view and with any prejudice to any fractional scheme i would still take the smaller mustang of Ambeo than one aircraft which has no fixed abode to which you are commited to use for a said period of time (25hours or so).
After all with Ambeo or indeed any charter company if you didn't like the experiance you can use another company / model of aircraft and perhaps at a more cost effective rate! (something even the most hardest private jet passengers are considering these days!)
Though i have not personally flown them i have arranged a multitude of flights with them and on every occasion i have always had a positive feedback from the passengers.
Some may say their weakness is that they are new to this industry and only have a small fleet but conversely i rather think this is to their advantage.
They understand that they have have to obtain market share not only by being competitive but also by offering a service to which i would say they are at the time i write this acheiveing very well.
The aircraft (Mustang) is an interesting little aircraft and is perfect for small trips
However, and i write this as passenger not as a pilot the mustang does have it's limitations. compared to the Bravo (NJE smallest cessna) it does not have a toilet at the rear and is not really suitable for 4 adults in the back.
Baggage space can also be a consideration but in my personal view and with any prejudice to any fractional scheme i would still take the smaller mustang of Ambeo than one aircraft which has no fixed abode to which you are commited to use for a said period of time (25hours or so).
After all with Ambeo or indeed any charter company if you didn't like the experiance you can use another company / model of aircraft and perhaps at a more cost effective rate! (something even the most hardest private jet passengers are considering these days!)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Private Jet 101
Your post is spot on. The Mustang certainly does have its limitations (as do all aircraft) but it's a great little aircraft for shorter sectors. Brokers and passengers need to select the right tool for the job and it wont always be a Mustang.
I don't think "weakness" was the incorrect word to use describing Ambeo as new because its only the company that's new. The management and most of the crew are highly experienced in the industry but I understand your point that Ambeo are establishing themselves in the market.
I don't think "weakness" was the incorrect word to use describing Ambeo as new because its only the company that's new. The management and most of the crew are highly experienced in the industry but I understand your point that Ambeo are establishing themselves in the market.
Last edited by proceeding outbound; 16th Oct 2010 at 09:41.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to say that I had an excellent charter experience with Ambeo a few weeks ago. Excellent crew, on time departure, excellent ops support and a good price. The Mustang is excellent for short (<2 hours) routes and I found the comfort level no different from the CJ2+ / Lear 35 / Phenom 100 types that I have flown.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
exit Fly Ambeo
Secondhand news, so apologies if not correct.
I just heard from an employee that they have gone belly-up and as of today he is out of a job. It appears a senior manager had already found a job in AUH and his resignation would have been imminent.
Another bunch of good guys down the drain.
I hope staff / pilots can find something quickly.
I just heard from an employee that they have gone belly-up and as of today he is out of a job. It appears a senior manager had already found a job in AUH and his resignation would have been imminent.
Another bunch of good guys down the drain.
I hope staff / pilots can find something quickly.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True
Yes, it's true. We were told yesterday afternoon. Too be honest it was an absolute pleasure working for Ambeo, the crew were a great bunch of guys and an absolute pleasure to fly and work with.
I for one am absolutely gutted and quite upset by what's happened.
On another note if anyone knows anyone that's looking for a rated Mustang pilot please please let me know...
I for one am absolutely gutted and quite upset by what's happened.
On another note if anyone knows anyone that's looking for a rated Mustang pilot please please let me know...
Last edited by SlingsbyT67M; 19th Oct 2011 at 15:54.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Somewhere between here and there....
Posts: 1,232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Suitcase
Eurocontrol
Stansted handlers
Stansted Airport
Handlers, caterers and airports with outstanding invoices, even recent ones
It's far from a dig at Ambeo. It's a fact when a company folds and that's the point I make.
I know a few people at Ambeo myself and will be doing all I can to help them find work.
Eurocontrol
Stansted handlers
Stansted Airport
Handlers, caterers and airports with outstanding invoices, even recent ones
It's far from a dig at Ambeo. It's a fact when a company folds and that's the point I make.
I know a few people at Ambeo myself and will be doing all I can to help them find work.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: In The Ether
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sad News
Liked the guys there and at least they kept things honest. Just the shape of the market at the moment.
Suitcase Man: Yep you can put in an offer for £1 but I hope for all concerned the person doing so isn't a certain Mr Crowther............. (you wont see the colour of that £1 for sure!)
Suitcase Man: Yep you can put in an offer for £1 but I hope for all concerned the person doing so isn't a certain Mr Crowther............. (you wont see the colour of that £1 for sure!)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry to hear about Ambeo. My limited dealings with them were very positive. However, hopefully I can offer a shining light of hope in this moment of darkness:
Globeair: www.latestpilotjobs.com/pilotjobs36.html
Also: Saxonair (Norwich?) are looking to replace a recently departed FO.
Cant comment on T&Cs or work ethic/culture as i simply dont know either well enough but its certainly worth a try...
Good luck
Globeair: www.latestpilotjobs.com/pilotjobs36.html
Also: Saxonair (Norwich?) are looking to replace a recently departed FO.
Cant comment on T&Cs or work ethic/culture as i simply dont know either well enough but its certainly worth a try...
Good luck
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: uk
Age: 75
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It failed because it did not make a profit, period. Talk of lack of investor support avoids mentioning this simple and obvious point, a point most people miss who know little about the economics of this business. Unfortunately the investors probably knew little about this business before they started or they would not have ventured into it. People never believe the saying that the only way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large one. There are always gullible investors sold the dream with outrageous computer projections sold by the armani suited brigade. (I am not saying that this was the case with Ambeo).