EASA proposals on foreign reg airframes
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EASA proposals on foreign reg airframes
EASA has released its proposals on maintenance of foreign reg planes based (meaning: long term parking) in the EU.
The relevant bit for small aircraft seems to be on page 9 of the PDF
The bit relevant to SE or ME pistons appears to be the very bottom row - if I understand it right.
ISTM that it hangs on the meaning of
>ICAO Annex I licence, or
>o Qualified maintenance
>organisation, or
>o ICAO Annex 6 maintenance
>organisation
It appears that "ICAO Annex I licence" means an A&P (or maybe an A&P/IA) and "Annex 6 maintenance organisation" means an FAA Repair Station.
The provisions aimed at jets etc seem "interesting" to say the least.
Not sure who is going to define the line between a visit and long term parking.
The relevant bit for small aircraft seems to be on page 9 of the PDF
The bit relevant to SE or ME pistons appears to be the very bottom row - if I understand it right.
ISTM that it hangs on the meaning of
>ICAO Annex I licence, or
>o Qualified maintenance
>organisation, or
>o ICAO Annex 6 maintenance
>organisation
It appears that "ICAO Annex I licence" means an A&P (or maybe an A&P/IA) and "Annex 6 maintenance organisation" means an FAA Repair Station.
The provisions aimed at jets etc seem "interesting" to say the least.
Not sure who is going to define the line between a visit and long term parking.
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Only just started looking at this (Holidays came first).
I confess to only having a limited understanding of the 80 pages. So how it will affect us (N reg Twin jet) I don't yet know. A lot will depend on time limits as our aircraft goes regularly between Europe and the US. Whether the Manufacturer who we use for major Maintenance can be classed as a CAMO-T, and here in Europe we use an A & P.
I'm still working with the EU-ETS and after a year still don't fully understand it!
(If it anything like the EU-ETS nobody takes any notice of the comments, OK I'm getting old and cynical.)
I'll pass it onto our crew as well.
The answer is, still reading.
M.E.
I confess to only having a limited understanding of the 80 pages. So how it will affect us (N reg Twin jet) I don't yet know. A lot will depend on time limits as our aircraft goes regularly between Europe and the US. Whether the Manufacturer who we use for major Maintenance can be classed as a CAMO-T, and here in Europe we use an A & P.
I'm still working with the EU-ETS and after a year still don't fully understand it!
(If it anything like the EU-ETS nobody takes any notice of the comments, OK I'm getting old and cynical.)
I'll pass it onto our crew as well.
The answer is, still reading.
M.E.
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EASA has not defined stuff like operator residence or airframe residence, so yes this will IMHO be "fun" for organisations and for aircraft that are truly mobile.
Anyway, pass this on to anyone who should know about it...
Anyway, pass this on to anyone who should know about it...
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EASA want to destroy FAA regs in Europe for long time.
From NPA to rule is long process but unless someone will not start to object and protest it can happen.
This is serious.
From NPA to rule is long process but unless someone will not start to object and protest it can happen.
This is serious.
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10540
Luckely in Europe we have strong human rights and discrimination laws and this lot stinks of anti human rights and grosse discrimination.
As in all previous anti N reg legislation they have been shot down rightfully.
If we are looking at saving some of the £billions from government departments EASA should be one so that the people employed to write this wasteful dribble at our expense can be put in the unemployment statistics where they belong.
Pace
Luckely in Europe we have strong human rights and discrimination laws and this lot stinks of anti human rights and grosse discrimination.
As in all previous anti N reg legislation they have been shot down rightfully.
If we are looking at saving some of the £billions from government departments EASA should be one so that the people employed to write this wasteful dribble at our expense can be put in the unemployment statistics where they belong.
Pace
I should state at the outset that this does not affect me in any way, however I find it nothing short of incredible that an ICAO member state is going to ignore the provisions of ICAO Annex 1 and impose a requirement to hold a flight crew licence unrelated to the state of registry of the aircraft being flown.
Elsewhere in these forums is a thread regarding the establishment of a crewe for FedEx in Paris to cover their B757 operation in Europe. Are EASA going to insist that all the FedEx pilots obtain JAR licences? Of course not, because the operation (FedEx) is not domiciled in Europe.
So why then would they devote so much time and energy to pursuing a few private jet operators?
Please don't give me the "..we have different air in Europe.." line.
If one ICAO member state starts ignoring the provisions of Annex 1 then we might as well just scrap ICAO and wind the clock back 70 years. Oh, and whilst we are at, why not disallow foreign-registered aircraft from landing in Europe too.
Elsewhere in these forums is a thread regarding the establishment of a crewe for FedEx in Paris to cover their B757 operation in Europe. Are EASA going to insist that all the FedEx pilots obtain JAR licences? Of course not, because the operation (FedEx) is not domiciled in Europe.
So why then would they devote so much time and energy to pursuing a few private jet operators?
Please don't give me the "..we have different air in Europe.." line.
If one ICAO member state starts ignoring the provisions of Annex 1 then we might as well just scrap ICAO and wind the clock back 70 years. Oh, and whilst we are at, why not disallow foreign-registered aircraft from landing in Europe too.
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Don't look for rhyme or reason in any of this stuff.
EASA is a bureaucracy reporting to another bureaucracy, the EU. Like all such entities it has as a sole function the production of activity for the parasites that live within...and ever increasing level of activity to justify the existence and growth of this parasitic structure....
Don't think of them as people doing a job and applying a thought process...and you'll start to understand....
EASA is a bureaucracy reporting to another bureaucracy, the EU. Like all such entities it has as a sole function the production of activity for the parasites that live within...and ever increasing level of activity to justify the existence and growth of this parasitic structure....
Don't think of them as people doing a job and applying a thought process...and you'll start to understand....
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Pace Even Daily Mail readers are not so warpped as to think that they have a human right to operate an N registered aircraft in Europe.
The EU would be perfectly right if they made all foreign registered aircraft visit their home country at least once a year.
N registered aircraft are just the mechanical equivalent of economic migrants. No work permit - deport them.
The EU would be perfectly right if they made all foreign registered aircraft visit their home country at least once a year.
N registered aircraft are just the mechanical equivalent of economic migrants. No work permit - deport them.
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shell management makes a valid point
US Visa and Immigration law is tough (and rightly so) in order to protect the interests of US workers, try going over to US and starting up as freelance instructor you will soon get a visit from the authorities and you will be on a plane back to whence you came (unless you have green card or citizenship)
Might be time to do the same for Europe (after we make it easier for pilots to gain IR etc of course) in order to compete and protect our own citizens rights and jobs.
Not such a daft rule perhaps ?
US Visa and Immigration law is tough (and rightly so) in order to protect the interests of US workers, try going over to US and starting up as freelance instructor you will soon get a visit from the authorities and you will be on a plane back to whence you came (unless you have green card or citizenship)
Might be time to do the same for Europe (after we make it easier for pilots to gain IR etc of course) in order to compete and protect our own citizens rights and jobs.
Not such a daft rule perhaps ?
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I have long thought that the whole issue is only to protect the training organisations in Europe. The amount of non European registration movements in Europe, under all types of scheduled, non scheduled, private and corporate ops is totaly accepted, notwithstanding, operaters who are proved to be unacceptable are banned from EU airspace. So all manner of ICAO (and more) licences are flying all manner of aircraft in Europe. ICAO training is not acceptable for an EU licence, why? Who would pay the high cost of EU aviation and suffer the EU weather given the choice to train elsewhere, only a fool. Answer, make EU training appear different, convince everyone it is superior, make it hugely more expensive and do not accept ex EU training. Result, anyone who can will use a more user friendly registration.
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Nice diversion tactic there Shell Management, worthy of your typical Brent Spar spin.
Last time I was in Rotterdam I happened to notice your nice 7x fleet based there to serve London and the Hague are all on the Bermuda register. I suppose Bermuda is more fun to visit than IOM.
Last time I was in Rotterdam I happened to notice your nice 7x fleet based there to serve London and the Hague are all on the Bermuda register. I suppose Bermuda is more fun to visit than IOM.
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Fix your IR issue and N reg would probably disappear.
The FAA has a good certification regime which has led the way in equipment and even whole airframes. A lot of N-reg planes could not be placed onto the national/EASA reg because of the can of worms which would be opened in many cases. Loads of recertification paperwork; uneconomic in many cases...
Then you have the many FAA CPL/IRs flying crew-flown business jets, not just N but also all the Cayman, Bermuda, etc who are mostly flying on FAA papers as a base, who would be facing approx 10 exams just to "fix" an EASA CPL, even if they were given an EASA IR conversion for free.
It is true that if EASA literally converted an FAA PPL/IR to an EASA PPL/IR, then the low-end (piston) N-reg scene would gradually dry up but it would take some years. However I don't believe that the low-end N-reg scene is what is driving the bulk of the anti-US emotion in Europe. I think it is the business jet scene that is doing most of that, and there isn't much anybody can do about it because of the inherent mobility of most of it.
Being on the N is a hassle in some ways: the plane is owned by a trustee, the 2-yearly static check is expensive and one has to fly to an FAA RS to get it done, one needs the DfT permission to pay an instructor, and some southern European countries screw N-reg pilots for extra money or extra long PPR requirement.
However, with the garbage coming out of EASA Part M, I am happy to be on the N-reg.
I have long thought that the whole issue is only to protect the training organisations in Europe
Last edited by IO540; 5th Sep 2010 at 14:42.
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Don't disagree with the comments regarding current situation and have not much hope for EASA fixing anything but my vision of better is as follows:
1 - Easy and less costly to put aircraft on Euro register (not likely but also not mission impossible) - Benefit lots of income for Euro zone less hassle for owners
2 - Easy and more pragmatic licensing of pilots (not likely I know but could and should be done) - Benefit is obvious money stays in Europe and less hassle for all (weather in Spain and France is nice !)
3 - Allow JAA instructors to earn a living independently and stop non euro citizens from working in Euro zone (as USA does at present) - benefit = jobs for our own citizens and less costly training regime.
Is the above likely to happen ? NO
Who is to blame for this ? WE ARE at the end of the day unfortunately.
I love FAA system and would dearly like to see a similar system in Europe but very unlikely. Come on guys you know that USA is a tough place to work so why do we make it so easy to work in Europe without visa's or work permits?
Time for an even playing field, Europe is massive and agree that US won't care as they are massive but time for us to value what we have a bit more.
1 - Easy and less costly to put aircraft on Euro register (not likely but also not mission impossible) - Benefit lots of income for Euro zone less hassle for owners
2 - Easy and more pragmatic licensing of pilots (not likely I know but could and should be done) - Benefit is obvious money stays in Europe and less hassle for all (weather in Spain and France is nice !)
3 - Allow JAA instructors to earn a living independently and stop non euro citizens from working in Euro zone (as USA does at present) - benefit = jobs for our own citizens and less costly training regime.
Is the above likely to happen ? NO
Who is to blame for this ? WE ARE at the end of the day unfortunately.
I love FAA system and would dearly like to see a similar system in Europe but very unlikely. Come on guys you know that USA is a tough place to work so why do we make it so easy to work in Europe without visa's or work permits?
Time for an even playing field, Europe is massive and agree that US won't care as they are massive but time for us to value what we have a bit more.
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You are never going to get a more sensible system here, because a more sensible system is likely to resemble the FAA system, which is by definition not acceptable to the Eurocrats whose standard line is "we are Europeans; we must have European solutions, not American solutions".
It amazes me that anybody can come up with such garbage with a straight face, but they are evidently well practiced.
You would not say to a 5 year old "you cannot have that ice cream because I say so".
This is why everything gets bogged down in Europe.
I don't think Europe is particularly massive when you look at the size of its non-CAT aviation scene, versus the non-CAT aviation scene in the rest of the world, and much of the latter runs on FAA paperwork one way or another. America (and American taxpayer) pretty well runs the known non-CAT aviation universe...
It amazes me that anybody can come up with such garbage with a straight face, but they are evidently well practiced.
You would not say to a 5 year old "you cannot have that ice cream because I say so".
This is why everything gets bogged down in Europe.
Europe is massive
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Airbus compete well with Boeing so I can't see why JAA can't at least try to compete (or better still work in partnership) with FAA.
A US citizen wishing to live and work in the UK requires a visa and a Certificate of Sponsorship for a Work Permit. Then SO CAL maybe it's time to start making sure that we police that rule a bit better, Europe is full of FAA Citizens working as FAA Instructors and Pilots and many of them do not have citizenship or right to work legitimately.
No problem with them doing so but if they don't allow us then we need to wise up a little bit and enforce our boundaries which will protect our jobs.
Yes protectionism I know but until the regulatory playing field levels I think it might be preferable to the situation we have at present.
A US citizen wishing to live and work in the UK requires a visa and a Certificate of Sponsorship for a Work Permit. Then SO CAL maybe it's time to start making sure that we police that rule a bit better, Europe is full of FAA Citizens working as FAA Instructors and Pilots and many of them do not have citizenship or right to work legitimately.
No problem with them doing so but if they don't allow us then we need to wise up a little bit and enforce our boundaries which will protect our jobs.
Yes protectionism I know but until the regulatory playing field levels I think it might be preferable to the situation we have at present.