NJE calling back pilots?

[Rusty Trombone]

Any News updates on this I hear that the NJI office is being moved to columbus on the gulfstream side and they have axed more Jobs. I have not heard a dicky bird from the monkey tower in lisbon lately. I wonder when some of us will be told more bad news. Where is flintstone when we need him>

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Sorry to say but overcrewed and still by a lot (100 ?200 ? 300 ?). No recall in 2010 that's for sure. Upper management committed to that. 2011 ? humm I would like to think so but probably not in a great number if any recall do occur.

I wonder when some of us will be told more bad news.
What do you have in mind ?

[Trim Stab]

If NJE still have cash flow problems it is good news for the smaller and more reactive European operators - there is a definite upturn in bookings month per month compared to last year for those with crew and fleet flexibility.

It still means crap terms for the pilots though... NJE pilots still have a good deal.

[JimJoness]

NetJets could save a lot of money by firing aircrews and replace them by pilots being on JS.
I wonder why they have not yet come up with this idea.
Make the math how much money they spend kind of useless for people sitting at home. I doubt that they will need their 1000 pilots in the next couple of years.

Just my 2 cents

[CL300]

Is it going into NJE bashing again ?

A company has decide a way to cope with the crisis, crisis triggered by people whom lived well above their capability, but this is another story; the ground fact are that among solutions it was offered to crews to have a jobshare activity for 4 years instead of loosing their jobs right away. Conspiracy and various theories are trying to dismantle these facts and some economy " gurus" at pprune do know better of course ( what else ?).
It never crossed the minds of these "gurus" that the budget for 4 years, ( time estimated to ride the crisis), was computed and applied ( variables set aside); and will be applied until the last day of the scheme.

Your doubts are well noted, and your concerns undestood. If you are so concerned about our company, you should apply in London office they will appreciate such a "guru", that will , I am sure, bring so much business that NJE will have to subcontract like mad.
my 2 cents...

[hollingworthp]

I planned on remaining in the JS programme for the full 4 years - however this kind of story is always good news!

The return of the jet-set - is there something in the air? - News & Advice, Travel - The Independent

Not sure how useful Lastminute.com will be though

[Rusty Trombone]

NJE

Whilst I share some of your comments its difficult etc, lots of money spent on training pilots engineers and crew.
NJE has laid off pilots on different packages and call back options etc to retain their core fleet in the event of a improvement in the market. I too are on a no pay but call back option its called being loyal to a company in difficult times.
All the bad press about how NJE is trust me often garbage, working the summer on a Regional Jet in Africa will just prove how good they have it at times.
Its all a big mess and people need to understand that Jobs are not for ever, burn their union hat and get on with it

[northern boy]

NetJets could save a lot of money by firing aircrews and replace them by pilots being on JS.
I wonder why they have not yet come up with this idea.
Make the math how much money they spend kind of useless for people sitting at home. I doubt that they will need their 1000 pilots in the next couple of ye

Hard to know where to start with this. There are no longer 1000 flight crew. quite a few took an early bath, more will doubtless follow as things pick up.

The Euro economies, with the exception of the UK, are starting to look better. I would not like to make concrete predictions about the state of things in 3 and a bit years.

As has been pointed out, the JS program is 4 years. It has been running for between 8 months and 1 year depending on when one started. Thats 25% of the total. Bit early to junk the whole thing.

If you are so certain of your forecasting, please lend your crystal ball/oracle/tealeaves or whatever to me because I am depending on my job to pay the bills. I could secure my future with such an infallible device.

BTW I and my colleagues do not consider ourselves to be useless. I have installed new lights in the lounge and just cut the grass. Bored certainly but hardly useless.

Good wind up I suppose.

burn their union hat and get on with it

Agreed Rusty although there are some trying hard to take us down that road. The same ones who would have seen many of us out the door at the first sign of trouble.

[Rusty Trombone]

NJE

Perfect statement from the northern boy, we are not useless. I have done all my jobs around the house, redone my Vespa and now working 4 months in the wonderful place of Africa?
The next Time I hit V1 flying a NJE Aircraft I will smile again

[northern boy]

At least you are flying and earning Rusty. I am now reduced to walking the dog and finding bargains in ASDA. Oh well only 4 months to go.

I could install power to the garden shed, keep me busy for another couple of weeks. Then, world domination. A project to last until December.

[austrian71]

@cl300
...this was not a solidaric and fair solution, because there were no social circumstances considered like major airline have to do according national law. Firing people in office and taking 40% of salary from the last is a very poor solution. That means, it was a preplanned solution without taking a social master plan into account, I guess you are ex military with a pension (due to your age )and a number below 500, right? Fair would be a salary / parttime reduction for ALL crews, but lets see, maybe the low numbers are getting their "off" due to other circumstances , because they are too expensive and easy to replace by younger crews, hope I am not right, but with present mngmt you never know.

[CL300]

From a remote device from a remote place :-)
I am so old that i am even below 100...
But not military...

edit to continue...
we did offer a 10% cut on our salary, but this was not accepted.

But as above, you must be a "guru"; please apply for a management position, the shareholders will be happy, or happier...

[austrian71]

I must admit C300, its not me - you are the guru !
Which elite do you belong to, that you offered for all a 10% cut ? Was it the incognito working group? What a pitty, that "your" group wasnt hit by the "voluntary" program, I am sooo sorry for you.
YOU should apply for lon mgmt and all the young family fathers sitting on 60% FO salary at home will love to pray to you

[CL300]

on the website on line session with management, this was proposed ( i have the snapshots) but denied by R.D. I was not the only one, and some ( not me) wrote to HR in order to include it in proposal. The Q and A adresses this matter as well with an answer to it. ( Cannot publish it here though).
I am not part and will never be part of ANY working group ever.
Sometimes you should read the company material in depth, a lot of answers in there...

[Rusty Trombone]

NJE Call Back

We all know that certain people in the company are a little towards the union method. Its not a bad thing at times. However this is indeed the worst in aviation for a long time.
Half the the owners have not re-signed their 5 year agreements leaving lots of unused aircraft on the ramp or up for sale. Residual values are rock bottom.

My Call back has been extended and I have heard of others that are being asked early.

Things are still not on the improvement according to the powers that be in lisboa?

My Expression of ditching the union hat is we all need to get in the real world at times everyone is hurting and we should all work to build a better company instead of bitching.

I was in geneva yesterday and its just unreal the amount of people whom are bitching about netjets in the crew room.

May be a few months in angolia will let them see that NJE is a great place to work despite all its faults.

[northern boy]

Northern Boy, those 'some taking us down that road' are more than half the crew!

And I can just imagine which half. Those that have done well out of no union and no seniority lists and achieved command on the nice shiny jets five minutes after joining now want to slam the door in the faces of everyone else.

No thanks. A vote for a union will inevitably lead to job cuts and those cuts will fall squarely on the shoulders of those who joined in the last two or three years.

Well I am one turkey who has no intention of voting for Christmas. If you want a unionised job where you wait your turn for 20 years like a good little comrade then join a big airline. There are quite a few who came to NJ to get away from that fossilized outdated nonsense.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

A great mix of crew actually, that's what's really is new (and that you felt in the GVA crewroom).

If you want a unionised job where you wait your turn for 20 years like a good little comrade then join a big airline.

Realistically whoever is number 800-950 today has been in the company 2 years or pretty much. Even with a return to normality (not the crazy expansion we had), chances are that number 950 will get a command after 10 years in NJE... On a small cabin like a Bravo (or whatever it will be by then).
As for a command in 20 years with a legacy... Depends but I would say it usually goes to 15 max years unless you bid for a very specific type/fleet. A very personal choice in that case.

Then what is better ? Be an FO with a yearly improvement on his salary, a real pension and a laid down policies which don't change willy nilly.
Or 8 years to become PIC on a Bravo ? With by then an entry salary as a captain inferior to your colleagues when they moved in the LHS a year, 2 years or 3 years before you ?
Bear in mind that a Captain's salary is only adjusted by the inflation rate starting when you become one.
So 95Ks it was 4 years ago and it will remain until you upgrade.
Imagine what has become to your purchasing power over an 8 years period (my example).

Sorry not preaching, just saying.

Wishing you an early recall.

[northern boy]

chances are that number 950 will get a command after 10 years in NJE... On a small cabin like a Bravo (or whatever it will be by then

10 years for a Bravo LHS?, jesus christ. Should have stayed with the airlines. I'll be at retirement age by then.

The point I was trying to make was that those with the good luck to have joined on the right day managed commands a hell of a lot quicker than that and moved up the fleets rapidly on the basis of their experience, not their date of joining. Those same people are now pushing like hell for a union which on past experience will insist on rigid seniority for anything and everything, despite their doing very nicely without it. Slamming the door and pulling up the ladder is the term for that. Rank hypocrisy is another way of putting it. I wonder how many considered turning their command down in case they were moving ahead of someone who joined before they did? Funny how people develop unshakable principles as long as they don't affect them.

Given also that the company has indicated that there will be no further expansion and a real possibility of job cuts if unionization happens then the same wretched system will ensure that the job cuts fall on the lower half of the list. The same people who have sacrificed 40% of salary and any hope of advancement for 4 years. Those sacrifices will have been made so that those who happened to join at the right time can keep their nice salaries and good jobs.

That is why in my ever so humble opinion, anyone who joined in the last two or three years would be crazy to vote for union recognition. Unions tend to be dominated by those at the top who will happily sell everyone else out to keep their position. Human nature I suppose but I'm damned if I'm voting for it and I would advise all the others with career numbers above 500 to think very hard.

I speak from bitter experience.

[CL300]

union or not union will not change the fact that if more "adjustements" will have to be, the bottom will disappear down the sink. But again nobody is in jail is it ? If not happy, just go !! Eject yourself from this ! Get a command on that fast jet next door !!!
What the outcome will be, nobody knows, need a story teller and a crystal ball ? I know an ivory tower where people could help.

[northern boy]

union or not union will not change the fact that if more "adjustements" will have to be, the bottom will disappear down the sink.

Actually old thing, those who volunteered for jobshare are protected from redundancy for the 4 year period so the axe will in this case fall on others first, regardless of their position. If the union try and get rid of that little gem then they will have their first big fight on their hands.

If not happy, just go !! Eject yourself from this !

I'm not unhappy with NJ. Most companies would have sent me and 300 others down the road at the first sign of economic woe. There were those amongst my more senior "colleagues" who wanted just that to happen. I have more than a sneaking suspicion that many of them are leading lights in any proposed union. They most certainly make me unhappy and I don't care who knows it. I have no intention of putting my neck on the block to protect those who would have seen 300 out of the company to protect themselves. Sorry, but there it is.