Pilatus PC12 NG
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Pilatus PC12 NG
Hello all,
anyone here flying Pilatus PC-12 NG ?
I'd like to know about the Direct Operating Costs (the ones form web page I know), Type Rating under JAR - how does it look, cost, time etc, and above all how it flies, some highs and lows, anything interesting about this a/c apreciated...
Cheers
anyone here flying Pilatus PC-12 NG ?
I'd like to know about the Direct Operating Costs (the ones form web page I know), Type Rating under JAR - how does it look, cost, time etc, and above all how it flies, some highs and lows, anything interesting about this a/c apreciated...
Cheers
I'm sure more knowledgeable chaps will be able to correct me if I'm wrong; as you brought up JAR, one thing to research is whether approval has been granted for IFR or night commercial operations yet.
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DOC = 600 eur/hr.
Type rating= Yes you need one. Buy 1 aircraft, get two ratings for free. Takes 5 days, but looks good.
It flies better than the 'Classic'. Highs= FL300, lows= 'till you can't get any lower
Interesting facts= It only has one engine, but performs like a twin. It will take off fully loaded from 600m grass and climb to FL 300 cruising at 260kts. burning 350lbs/hr.
Type rating= Yes you need one. Buy 1 aircraft, get two ratings for free. Takes 5 days, but looks good.
It flies better than the 'Classic'. Highs= FL300, lows= 'till you can't get any lower
Interesting facts= It only has one engine, but performs like a twin. It will take off fully loaded from 600m grass and climb to FL 300 cruising at 260kts. burning 350lbs/hr.
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Of course it's not certified, for IFR under JAR for comm ops! That's because in USA there are far more better IFR condtions than in EU, surely we have more tornados, hurricanes etc., and above all people in Europe go to courts much more often... now it makes obvious why it can't still be certified for IFR... but I'm not worried about that because it gonna be for private use.
Anyway thanks for the answers, CMN this DOC given by You include fuel, yes ?
What country is it calculated for ?
What about TR if we buy used (100 TTSN or something like this) can we fly it to Stans and make it on our own or is it only simulated ?
Anyway thanks for the answers, CMN this DOC given by You include fuel, yes ?
What country is it calculated for ?
What about TR if we buy used (100 TTSN or something like this) can we fly it to Stans and make it on our own or is it only simulated ?
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Hi CMN
Interested in your post, or to be more correct, the PC12!!
Just working out some rough figures. Can you mention what your number for DOC includes? Fuel ,Oil, maint, o/hauls, insurance? Is pilot cost in there?
Interested in your post, or to be more correct, the PC12!!
Just working out some rough figures. Can you mention what your number for DOC includes? Fuel ,Oil, maint, o/hauls, insurance? Is pilot cost in there?
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Hi guys!
How looks transition from Seneca V to PC-12 having ATPL frozen license issued in EU country? Do I need a TR for PC-12 or only some course to get turbine powered a/c endorsment in my licence? What is the cost and hoe exactly looks training to fly solo PC-12? Any sim in Europe?
Kind regards,
Konrad
How looks transition from Seneca V to PC-12 having ATPL frozen license issued in EU country? Do I need a TR for PC-12 or only some course to get turbine powered a/c endorsment in my licence? What is the cost and hoe exactly looks training to fly solo PC-12? Any sim in Europe?
Kind regards,
Konrad
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FLyer, to give you an idea. For someone with no FL or Turbine experience but switched-on and capable with say 2,500TT and 1,500 IFR charter: To be fully competent and comfortable, single pilot in all conditions around 50-75hours ICUS. Endo is around 5-10hours.
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PC12 is in class of its own, NG makes it even better with superb glass cockpit designed to be flown single pilot.
Don't know about FL300 in Europe, as you would need RVSM approval and FL260 to FL280 is high enough for the plane performance wise anyway.
260kts TAS is normal with 350-400lbs FF at above levels giving > 6hrs end
Get it on the N or M-reg and no type rating required.
Don't know about FL300 in Europe, as you would need RVSM approval and FL260 to FL280 is high enough for the plane performance wise anyway.
260kts TAS is normal with 350-400lbs FF at above levels giving > 6hrs end
Get it on the N or M-reg and no type rating required.
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No POH I've read (PC12-40/44/45/47/47E) has that as a recommendation. Bleed is more than adequate to maintain 20degC at -30C OAT. The under floor heater will boost that if the pilot neglects to turn the temp up.
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I'm not sure a class of its own is a fair description. A smart machine yes, but to counter your example on burn
A king air 250 gives 300 kts for 540lb per hour total in the early F300s.
With two engines.
So I'm not sure what class the PC12 is in on it's own. Apart from the 'private use only' class or the 'watch out for long over water legs or remote terrain' class
A king air 250 gives 300 kts for 540lb per hour total in the early F300s.
With two engines.
So I'm not sure what class the PC12 is in on it's own. Apart from the 'private use only' class or the 'watch out for long over water legs or remote terrain' class
Thats not true.
The BE250 flies 300 Knots at FL 250. If you fly higher it will safe fuel, but isnīt so fast anymore.
I had a demo flight with the BE250 2 weeks ago, because my Boss was thinking about to buy one.
I do have some performance data and I made some calculations between the Beech and the PC12.
The 300 Knots of the Beech 250 is maximum cruise at 25000 feet with a light airplane. The 540 lbs fuel flow is at a much higher FL.
The PC 12 can do 280 knots at 24000 feet if it is light.
With maximum weight the PC12 NG will cruise with 260 knots and a fuel flow of 349 lbs/hr at 30000 ft. Or 272 Knots at 20000 ft with a fuel flow 491 lbs/hr.
Another Example:
Basic operating weight of the Beech 250 including 1 Pilot: 8780 lbs
full fuel : 3645 lbs
Take off weight: 12425 lbs
Max. take off weight 12500 lbs
So the Beech 250 can fly with full tanks, one pilot and 0 Passengers only.
2 Pilots canīt fill the tanks to maximum !!!!!!!!!
Range with full tanks is 1610 NM.
With 4 Passengers, 1 Pilot it is 1184 NM.
PC12:
Basic operating weight incl. 1 Pilot: 6548 lbs
full fuel : 2700 lbs
Take off weight: 9248 lbs
Max take off weight: 10450 lbs
That gives you a payload full fuel of: 1202 lbs
That is 6 passengers (200 lbs each)with full fuel.
Range with full fuel is 1500 NM
With 8 Passengers it will fly 1182 NM.
So to fly 1182 NM with 8 Passengers you need 1 PC12, or 2 BE 250.
As we donīt do ferry flights only, the Beech isnīt the right plane for us.
The Beech is a little faster, but it hasnīt the range and the payload we need.
If you buy the high flotation gear, to operate on rough surfaces, the Beech is slower, because it doesnīt fit completely into the wing. A feature every PC12 has ex factory.
The costs of the beech are much highter.
1. sales Price
2. Fuel
3. Maintenance
4. Insurance
The PC 12 has a take off distance, max take off weight, SL, ISA of 456 Meter, Be250 643 Meter.
Landing distance of the PC12 is 537 Meter, BE250 867 Meter.
Other advantages of the PC12, Cargo door, flat cabin floor.
So my conclusion, the PC12 outperforms the BE250 in everything by far, exept speed.
Inbalance
The BE250 flies 300 Knots at FL 250. If you fly higher it will safe fuel, but isnīt so fast anymore.
I had a demo flight with the BE250 2 weeks ago, because my Boss was thinking about to buy one.
I do have some performance data and I made some calculations between the Beech and the PC12.
The 300 Knots of the Beech 250 is maximum cruise at 25000 feet with a light airplane. The 540 lbs fuel flow is at a much higher FL.
The PC 12 can do 280 knots at 24000 feet if it is light.
With maximum weight the PC12 NG will cruise with 260 knots and a fuel flow of 349 lbs/hr at 30000 ft. Or 272 Knots at 20000 ft with a fuel flow 491 lbs/hr.
Another Example:
Basic operating weight of the Beech 250 including 1 Pilot: 8780 lbs
full fuel : 3645 lbs
Take off weight: 12425 lbs
Max. take off weight 12500 lbs
So the Beech 250 can fly with full tanks, one pilot and 0 Passengers only.
2 Pilots canīt fill the tanks to maximum !!!!!!!!!
Range with full tanks is 1610 NM.
With 4 Passengers, 1 Pilot it is 1184 NM.
PC12:
Basic operating weight incl. 1 Pilot: 6548 lbs
full fuel : 2700 lbs
Take off weight: 9248 lbs
Max take off weight: 10450 lbs
That gives you a payload full fuel of: 1202 lbs
That is 6 passengers (200 lbs each)with full fuel.
Range with full fuel is 1500 NM
With 8 Passengers it will fly 1182 NM.
So to fly 1182 NM with 8 Passengers you need 1 PC12, or 2 BE 250.
As we donīt do ferry flights only, the Beech isnīt the right plane for us.
The Beech is a little faster, but it hasnīt the range and the payload we need.
If you buy the high flotation gear, to operate on rough surfaces, the Beech is slower, because it doesnīt fit completely into the wing. A feature every PC12 has ex factory.
The costs of the beech are much highter.
1. sales Price
2. Fuel
3. Maintenance
4. Insurance
The PC 12 has a take off distance, max take off weight, SL, ISA of 456 Meter, Be250 643 Meter.
Landing distance of the PC12 is 537 Meter, BE250 867 Meter.
Other advantages of the PC12, Cargo door, flat cabin floor.
So my conclusion, the PC12 outperforms the BE250 in everything by far, exept speed.
Inbalance
Last edited by inbalance; 19th Aug 2012 at 13:01.
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Inbalance.
It was absolutely true and I do not like being called a liar. From the B250 POH:
F250 TAS 301
F280 TAS 307
F310 TAS 301
So the 300 knots is at F310 with the low burn.
If one wishes to cruise at max range power, 240 kts TAS at 12000lb, F350 you will burn 380 lb/hr. So 20 kts less than the PC12 but similar fuel burn. And two engines. This will increase the payload.
At 20 deg C MTOW the LDR is 1200 feet. Perhaps you are getting metres and feet mixed up?
If you buy the high float gear doors then there is no speed penalty.
Pilatus requires maintenance every 100 hours plus annually. Beech is every 200 hours only.
Insurance may be cheaper, but some individuals personal or business insurance requires them to travel in a twin.
I said previously the PC12 is a smart machine, and it has it's uses. However at the end of the day it's only a single so I guess it depends on how safety orientated you are.
Have a nice Sunday
It was absolutely true and I do not like being called a liar. From the B250 POH:
F250 TAS 301
F280 TAS 307
F310 TAS 301
So the 300 knots is at F310 with the low burn.
If one wishes to cruise at max range power, 240 kts TAS at 12000lb, F350 you will burn 380 lb/hr. So 20 kts less than the PC12 but similar fuel burn. And two engines. This will increase the payload.
At 20 deg C MTOW the LDR is 1200 feet. Perhaps you are getting metres and feet mixed up?
If you buy the high float gear doors then there is no speed penalty.
Pilatus requires maintenance every 100 hours plus annually. Beech is every 200 hours only.
Insurance may be cheaper, but some individuals personal or business insurance requires them to travel in a twin.
I said previously the PC12 is a smart machine, and it has it's uses. However at the end of the day it's only a single so I guess it depends on how safety orientated you are.
Have a nice Sunday
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Pilatus requires maintenance every 150 hours plus annually.
The real cruising speed is 265 kts with fuel consumption around 380 lbs/hr depending on altitude.
Sometimes I have cold legs on longer trips in winter period and thinking that extra under floor heating should be nice.
Flying with PC-12NG is awesome and easy.
The real cruising speed is 265 kts with fuel consumption around 380 lbs/hr depending on altitude.
Sometimes I have cold legs on longer trips in winter period and thinking that extra under floor heating should be nice.
Flying with PC-12NG is awesome and easy.
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PC-12NG ops in Europe
Dear All
This thread is a tad old, but here's hoping you are all still alive, well and firmly in-harness.
I'm in need of real piloting/operational opinion regarding PC-12NG within the European Union. No guesses, please, I can do that much myself. But for those that actually tame or tickle the beast...
Specifically: How close are the claimed performance numbers to reality? In commercial IFR operation, what is realistic in terms of range, fuel, maintenance time and cost, etc?
And, what are it's specific weaknesses, if any?
If not the PC-12NG in a specialist pressurised cargo op', then what?
I do not wish to breach any PpruNe rules, so please forgive my reticence to paint a fuller picture at this stage. Any PM is, of course, welcome, and all will be fully responded to and the contents therein equally respected.
Thank-you all
Dan
This thread is a tad old, but here's hoping you are all still alive, well and firmly in-harness.
I'm in need of real piloting/operational opinion regarding PC-12NG within the European Union. No guesses, please, I can do that much myself. But for those that actually tame or tickle the beast...
Specifically: How close are the claimed performance numbers to reality? In commercial IFR operation, what is realistic in terms of range, fuel, maintenance time and cost, etc?
And, what are it's specific weaknesses, if any?
If not the PC-12NG in a specialist pressurised cargo op', then what?
I do not wish to breach any PpruNe rules, so please forgive my reticence to paint a fuller picture at this stage. Any PM is, of course, welcome, and all will be fully responded to and the contents therein equally respected.
Thank-you all
Dan
Last edited by Dantruck; 12th Aug 2015 at 10:44. Reason: forgot to include something
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Dantruck
Count on a depreciation of $300,000 per year! You can buy a heck of a lot of fuel for that.
Cheaper to buy by a $million is a TBM850 which will knock along at a solid 320-330 KTS
Same price you can get a CJ2 jet with
Why go for a semi detached house with one engine?
Pace
Count on a depreciation of $300,000 per year! You can buy a heck of a lot of fuel for that.
Cheaper to buy by a $million is a TBM850 which will knock along at a solid 320-330 KTS
Same price you can get a CJ2 jet with
Why go for a semi detached house with one engine?
Pace
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No comparison between TBM and PC12. Similar but yet so different machines, TBM has the speed but it ain't a workhorse like PC12.
There's pros and cons, I like PC12 but still prefer the King Air. Especially when flying in remote areas, second engine is big confidence filler!!
There's pros and cons, I like PC12 but still prefer the King Air. Especially when flying in remote areas, second engine is big confidence filler!!
