Lear 31, 45, 60 info needed
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Lear 31, 45, 60 info needed
Hi All,
We are currently operating a G4 and are looking to acquire a small/mid jet for our smaller missions within the US. Purchase price is not as much of a concern as operating cost is. I have been doing my homework and narrowed down our options to the Lear 31, 45, and 60. Most DOC reports I have seen show that the lowest operating cost for these 3 models is the Lear 45, burning an average of 200gal/hr. (same as the Lear 31) with the Lear 60 burning 215gal/hr. Looking for some pilots with real world experience in these model Lear's to give me some real numbers as far as fuel burn, useable payload, reliability and range go. As well as any other pro's and con's they have found through their experience in these jets. Any information would be much appreciated.
We are currently operating a G4 and are looking to acquire a small/mid jet for our smaller missions within the US. Purchase price is not as much of a concern as operating cost is. I have been doing my homework and narrowed down our options to the Lear 31, 45, and 60. Most DOC reports I have seen show that the lowest operating cost for these 3 models is the Lear 45, burning an average of 200gal/hr. (same as the Lear 31) with the Lear 60 burning 215gal/hr. Looking for some pilots with real world experience in these model Lear's to give me some real numbers as far as fuel burn, useable payload, reliability and range go. As well as any other pro's and con's they have found through their experience in these jets. Any information would be much appreciated.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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If you are considering a smaller jet, then the LJ60 is the lowest step-down from what your passengers are usde to. It has a nice and roomy cabin, an APU (only generating electricity though) and good performance. But: it loves long runways!
The LJ45 is a nice machine as well and very modern in terms of systems, avionics etc. and it does have an APU (not the LJ40!) as well. Runway performance is good and it's certified for steep approaches. Fuel consumption is low.
The LJ31A might offer the best 'bang for the buck'. Excellent performance, low fuel flow and adequate cabin for shorter hops, but system-wise older, no APU and much shorter range.
The XLS is nice as well, but this is a philosophical discussion. Somebody looking for a LJ will never consider a Citation and vice versa.
The LJ45 is a nice machine as well and very modern in terms of systems, avionics etc. and it does have an APU (not the LJ40!) as well. Runway performance is good and it's certified for steep approaches. Fuel consumption is low.
The LJ31A might offer the best 'bang for the buck'. Excellent performance, low fuel flow and adequate cabin for shorter hops, but system-wise older, no APU and much shorter range.
The XLS is nice as well, but this is a philosophical discussion. Somebody looking for a LJ will never consider a Citation and vice versa.
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Keep in mind to get range out of the 31, you are going to have to fly it at FL450+ (hope you like o2), I don't remember the actual burn numbers exact enough to quote, but flying it passed about 3 hours you start to push it. Anybody used to the IV isn't going to like that cabin, If you go that route the 2000 model year Bombardier switched to a FADEC (instead of DEECs) and split the AC for better cooling into the cockpit, so I would look into that. Its a good performer, one of my favorites to fly.
The 60, cabin crossection is comfortable and much nicer to jump into from the IV, middle to heavy weights at FL410 and pulled back to .76 we get 1250 to 1350lbs an hour. We flight plan 17, 13, 13... Unless you are lighter, FL430 is its practical max alt due to high wingloading which also prevents you from going passed about .785 if you are heavy (winglet buzz). True, it can be a runway hog, but we don't have much problem the places we go, if you get the 60, first thing is to get the improved brakes, great improvement in stopping power, though they did not recertify for new numbers you get piece of mind and you will also get double the number of landings. The trick with the APU is to use it or you will have problems. Great airplane, when ATC doesn't hold us down we are at cruise at FL410 in 13min with pax and fuel.
I've never flown the 45 but pilot friends seem to like it.
The 60, cabin crossection is comfortable and much nicer to jump into from the IV, middle to heavy weights at FL410 and pulled back to .76 we get 1250 to 1350lbs an hour. We flight plan 17, 13, 13... Unless you are lighter, FL430 is its practical max alt due to high wingloading which also prevents you from going passed about .785 if you are heavy (winglet buzz). True, it can be a runway hog, but we don't have much problem the places we go, if you get the 60, first thing is to get the improved brakes, great improvement in stopping power, though they did not recertify for new numbers you get piece of mind and you will also get double the number of landings. The trick with the APU is to use it or you will have problems. Great airplane, when ATC doesn't hold us down we are at cruise at FL410 in 13min with pax and fuel.
I've never flown the 45 but pilot friends seem to like it.
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I'd go for the Lear 45 mate, much more versatile than the 60 for instance. The 60 is a great airplane to fly, lots of power but needs incredibly long runways. Forget those 4500 feet runways if it's rainy and/or the airport is above 2000 ft AMSL, no chance!
Of course use the APU, if not, too much moisture gets inside and you might have to pay a huge amount of money to repair it (even when using it you might go figure asking your boss to pay 20'000 bucks for a simple part to change!)
Have fun if you fly the Lear60, the Beast!
Of course use the APU, if not, too much moisture gets inside and you might have to pay a huge amount of money to repair it (even when using it you might go figure asking your boss to pay 20'000 bucks for a simple part to change!)
Have fun if you fly the Lear60, the Beast!
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I fly a LR45, it's a really nice machine. Typically, at 400/410 and ISA you will be burning around 1200 pounds/hour at .78
We regularly fly from Montreal to Wichita and back again. Usually 3.2 to 3.3 hours down and 2.8 to 2.9 hours back. We're pretty much limited to 7 pax at those flight times (depending on your alternate of course).
I enjoy flying the airplane, the XR model is certainly nicer when the temps are on the high side. The wing is fantastic and the brakes are great too, to the point that thrust reversers are almost an afterthought, which is the complete opposite of the 60!
Hope that helps.
We regularly fly from Montreal to Wichita and back again. Usually 3.2 to 3.3 hours down and 2.8 to 2.9 hours back. We're pretty much limited to 7 pax at those flight times (depending on your alternate of course).
I enjoy flying the airplane, the XR model is certainly nicer when the temps are on the high side. The wing is fantastic and the brakes are great too, to the point that thrust reversers are almost an afterthought, which is the complete opposite of the 60!
Hope that helps.
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the 60 and the 45 are great aircraft, I fly the 60 and you will love it, get the good brakes and donīt worry about runway length, it will stop you real hard. The 45 is new bombardier design, different philosophy but also will do the job, cabin is narrower then the 60 pax are more comfortable on the 60 and if you can get it without divan much better. Fuel flow on the 60 is 1250lbs/hour
Yesterday I did a medium flight, 7.800lbs full, 4 hours flight and I had 2.800 left when landed flying at FL390 ISA+8 M.78-.80, those are real figures
Yesterday I did a medium flight, 7.800lbs full, 4 hours flight and I had 2.800 left when landed flying at FL390 ISA+8 M.78-.80, those are real figures
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Hi,
the 60 and 45 models should be considered here, the 31 has a quite old philosophy..but I understand the one who are considering this lear..
For me the best average will be the 45 , perfos, fuel burn, qualified for steep approachs, APU (bleed + elec) a very nice avionics uptodate pacquage and really a nice airplane to handle.. for 12 million $ a great choice....
the 60 and 45 models should be considered here, the 31 has a quite old philosophy..but I understand the one who are considering this lear..
For me the best average will be the 45 , perfos, fuel burn, qualified for steep approachs, APU (bleed + elec) a very nice avionics uptodate pacquage and really a nice airplane to handle.. for 12 million $ a great choice....
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Thank you all very much for the useful real world info. Sounds like fuel burn numbers between the LR45 and LR60 are fairly similar which is one of the most important factors for us and the reason for not moving the G4 on shorter missions. The LR31 cabin size and lavatory would be an issue...so we've narrowed our search to the 45 and 60.
Are all the LR 60 APU's Electricity only? Or do they have options for an APU with AIR as well??? If not, the LR45 is sounding better and better since we do operate out of warm climates most of the time.
Thanks again for all of your replies!
Are all the LR 60 APU's Electricity only? Or do they have options for an APU with AIR as well??? If not, the LR45 is sounding better and better since we do operate out of warm climates most of the time.
Thanks again for all of your replies!
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The "APU" on a Lear 60 is nothing more than a jet fuel powered battery charger. What an embarrissment. 
Cooling is by freon air conditioning.
As the Lear 60 is "grandfathered" on the original Lear 24 TC (as are the 25, 28, 29, 31, 35, 36, and 55) the systems are archaic and maintenance access is poor.
If you are currently operating a G4, you will find LR60 approach speeds similar (~130kts at minimum weights). The brakes do work - but look at those little tires !
Extreamly important to service tire pressures before leaving home base and keep a good eye on them.
I last operated s/n 316 and it had fuel quantity indicating system problems that even the factory couldn't figure out.
Try not to laugh out loud when they show you how to service the potty (good for 7 flushes). Another embarrissment.
While the plane may be certified to 510, it's really a 390/400/410 airplane.
C2j
Cooling is by freon air conditioning.As the Lear 60 is "grandfathered" on the original Lear 24 TC (as are the 25, 28, 29, 31, 35, 36, and 55) the systems are archaic and maintenance access is poor.
If you are currently operating a G4, you will find LR60 approach speeds similar (~130kts at minimum weights). The brakes do work - but look at those little tires !
Extreamly important to service tire pressures before leaving home base and keep a good eye on them.I last operated s/n 316 and it had fuel quantity indicating system problems that even the factory couldn't figure out.
Try not to laugh out loud when they show you how to service the potty (good for 7 flushes). Another embarrissment.
While the plane may be certified to 510, it's really a 390/400/410 airplane.
C2j
