Why are Gulfstream II and IIB so cheap?
That is far, FAR lower price than I would have guessed. I thought the 2-3 million range. Still is pretty far past it's sell-by date, remember to operate o&t still is pretty high
GF
GF
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GF,
i'm seeing stage III G-III's in that price bracket, and thats with the TCAS revision, RVSP compliant, RNP1-10, on a mx program, fresh 72 month, the tail done and about 2 years on the engines.
i'm seeing stage III G-III's in that price bracket, and thats with the TCAS revision, RVSP compliant, RNP1-10, on a mx program, fresh 72 month, the tail done and about 2 years on the engines.
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First up let me just share that the original query by JGSFLA is, in my view, non-genuine!
Moving on .. I had dinner last night with a longtime friend of mine (Florida based) who last week finished up a proposal for an African based NGO which had been offered two GIISP's by US owners for free!
He ran the numbers based on the location of the op and came out with an all inclusive hourly cost exceeding $7,000 - this included pilots, full time mechanics, local living costs etc. on top of the normal fixed and variable costs.
The hourly operating cost plus the fact that even within Africa there are some locations where the GII is restricted resulted in the NGO rejecting both offers from the owners to donate their aircraft to 'good causes' - one a/c had a completely new interior!
To me it would seem that the days of the GII/III are well and truly over - great as they were back in the day they are simply unviable for anything more than recreational flying or airshows - at least that will be the way of it before long!
HM
Moving on .. I had dinner last night with a longtime friend of mine (Florida based) who last week finished up a proposal for an African based NGO which had been offered two GIISP's by US owners for free!
He ran the numbers based on the location of the op and came out with an all inclusive hourly cost exceeding $7,000 - this included pilots, full time mechanics, local living costs etc. on top of the normal fixed and variable costs.
The hourly operating cost plus the fact that even within Africa there are some locations where the GII is restricted resulted in the NGO rejecting both offers from the owners to donate their aircraft to 'good causes' - one a/c had a completely new interior!
To me it would seem that the days of the GII/III are well and truly over - great as they were back in the day they are simply unviable for anything more than recreational flying or airshows - at least that will be the way of it before long!
HM
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I would be very curious how he ran the numbers...free planes mean no capital cost...unless he had to buy engines, which you didn't mention, so we are basically talking about a crew, a mechanic and fuel in Africa...$7000/hr? Now I don't fly in Africa, but are you telling me most of Africa even has noise abatement?
Reminds of a friend who got his boss into a GIV..he was running the numbers this way and that for the board...basically he fudged some 'seat per nautical mile' numbers to make it look like loading up 15 people in a Gulfstream beat the airlines flying coach...the company folded a few years later...
All that said...it sounds like the NGO just couldn't afford the gas and pilots even if they had free planes..
I'll take the Gulfstreams...PM me....
Reminds of a friend who got his boss into a GIV..he was running the numbers this way and that for the board...basically he fudged some 'seat per nautical mile' numbers to make it look like loading up 15 people in a Gulfstream beat the airlines flying coach...the company folded a few years later...
All that said...it sounds like the NGO just couldn't afford the gas and pilots even if they had free planes..
I'll take the Gulfstreams...PM me....
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7000 US on top of all cost.... hmmmm
The owner must be planning to fly 100 hours a year on BOTH GII...
If you want some decent pilots to work/live in Africa (I mean real Africa), you have to pay them enough, otherwise you will get none.
GII is a great aircraft if you have little money to invest, hire a smart pilot who is able to manage it in a right way, want/need to own a gulfstream and own an oil well.
My 0.2
The owner must be planning to fly 100 hours a year on BOTH GII...
If you want some decent pilots to work/live in Africa (I mean real Africa), you have to pay them enough, otherwise you will get none.
GII is a great aircraft if you have little money to invest, hire a smart pilot who is able to manage it in a right way, want/need to own a gulfstream and own an oil well.
My 0.2
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GIIB
We have been operating a stage III G2B worldwide for 16 years. It has been a great performer. We have considered upgrading to a GIV. Bottom line, as far as operating cost, unless your flying over 600 hours a year, or need the extra range, the 2B is cheaper to operate. The aircraft is very reliable and maintenance is very reasonable. Avoid the major service centers and you will save major coin. We figure the total hourly operating cost at around 4000 hr flying @ 400 hours per year.
Last edited by Larrylake; 4th Jan 2012 at 07:10. Reason: Clarity
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The problem with this industry is the tax system pushes everyone into new planes, and you got pilots that can't fly without tripple EFIS anymore..so the owners keep getting this message they need something newer and more expensive to get from point a to b.
If you've been doing this for a while, you've probably seen your share of smart CEOs that get hoodwinked into the wrong plane, then bitch how expense a flight department is after it folds....what they don't tell you is how they bought wrong, they hired wrong, they managed wrong...
If you've been doing this for a while, you've probably seen your share of smart CEOs that get hoodwinked into the wrong plane, then bitch how expense a flight department is after it folds....what they don't tell you is how they bought wrong, they hired wrong, they managed wrong...
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Generally, when I see a poster come up with some scheme to buy an old Gulfstream or Lear, my fanboy and poser alarm goes off. Why? Because those are the generic titles the general public gives to all business jets.
When the pilots and aviation knowledgeable chime in with better performing and more financially prudent airframes, the OP is lost because they have no idea what they're talking about.
When the pilots and aviation knowledgeable chime in with better performing and more financially prudent airframes, the OP is lost because they have no idea what they're talking about.
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Generally, when I see a poster come up with some scheme to buy an old Gulfstream or Lear, my fanboy and poser alarm goes off. Why? Because those are the generic titles the general public gives to all business jets.
Stay away unless they have a very credible (commercial!) resume and an investor with deeeeep pockets! 
When the pilots and aviation knowledgeable chime in with better performing and more financially prudent airframes, the OP is lost because they have no idea what they're talking about.
