Change from Airlines to Bizjets
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Change from Airlines to Bizjets
I am looking to move from the Airlines to Bizjets. Some information on pay, lifestyle and operators currently recruiting would be great to have. There are a lot of negatives posted in PPRUNE so I would appreciate some positives in amongst the replies, if any. Primarily looking for a UK Base and a DEC if possible.
For info I have 10000 + total hours and 7000 + hours PIC on A320 and 737.
For info I have 10000 + total hours and 7000 + hours PIC on A320 and 737.
Join Date: May 2002
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I cannot comment on pay/locations/etc in your part of the world. Best I leave that to others with the knowledge in that regard.
What I can comment on is the attitude you might need to consider. I fly corporate with an experienced ex-airline pilot, and he is a fine operator. I once asked him if there was anyone he had worked with in the airlines that he would recommend for a job in corporate. His answer was a resounding NO.
His rationale was that a lot of airline pilots get too comfortable with the well-supported airline ways, and would find the corporate way of working too far out of their comfort zone. In corporate, you are very much reliant on team effort and there is overlap in effort, if not in responsibilities. Often, you are left to your own devices when getting the job done.
On further discussion, we concluded that it came down to attitude - if you come in to corporate with the attitude that doing a thorough walkaround is the engineer's job, or that helping the FA wash the dishes at the end of the flight is beneath you, or that hauling suitcases on a hot tarmac is not your job then you will find corporate difficult to deal with.
This is not intended in any negative sense: rather, as friendly advice that before contemplating such a change you should have no illusions that operating corporate is not all beer and skittles!
IMHO the job satisfaction in corporate far outweighs that in the airlines...
I hope this post can help you in some way.
What I can comment on is the attitude you might need to consider. I fly corporate with an experienced ex-airline pilot, and he is a fine operator. I once asked him if there was anyone he had worked with in the airlines that he would recommend for a job in corporate. His answer was a resounding NO.
His rationale was that a lot of airline pilots get too comfortable with the well-supported airline ways, and would find the corporate way of working too far out of their comfort zone. In corporate, you are very much reliant on team effort and there is overlap in effort, if not in responsibilities. Often, you are left to your own devices when getting the job done.
On further discussion, we concluded that it came down to attitude - if you come in to corporate with the attitude that doing a thorough walkaround is the engineer's job, or that helping the FA wash the dishes at the end of the flight is beneath you, or that hauling suitcases on a hot tarmac is not your job then you will find corporate difficult to deal with.
This is not intended in any negative sense: rather, as friendly advice that before contemplating such a change you should have no illusions that operating corporate is not all beer and skittles!
IMHO the job satisfaction in corporate far outweighs that in the airlines...
I hope this post can help you in some way.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Agree with envoys comments. I've recently made the move from airline (14000h+ 737/767 PIC TRE etc) to corporate flying, for me the lifestyle has many positives. Yes... Thinking for yourself (without constant referral to a ops manager), loading bags (no one else is going to do it for you!), putting oil in engines, paying bills, working in a small team etc etc are all part of a days flying. You feel and are very much more involved in the overall operation.
It is all about attitude, however there are many ex-airline pilots in the corporate world. I was thinking of names that I would recommend from my previous airline and came up with 1 or 2 out of 600! So I'd agree that this environment is not for all ex-airline types.
Pay etc, seems to depend on how good you are at negotiating?? It goes without saying, you're in a much stronger position if you have a desirable type rating (like CL604/5 G550 etc). Having high time in Worldwide ops (airline or corporate) helps. There is a chronic shortage of training pilots on certain corporate types, having qualifications (TRE) on airline types for later transfer seems to be well received.
If you need more details drop me a note via PM.
It is all about attitude, however there are many ex-airline pilots in the corporate world. I was thinking of names that I would recommend from my previous airline and came up with 1 or 2 out of 600! So I'd agree that this environment is not for all ex-airline types.
Pay etc, seems to depend on how good you are at negotiating?? It goes without saying, you're in a much stronger position if you have a desirable type rating (like CL604/5 G550 etc). Having high time in Worldwide ops (airline or corporate) helps. There is a chronic shortage of training pilots on certain corporate types, having qualifications (TRE) on airline types for later transfer seems to be well received.
If you need more details drop me a note via PM.
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Im also considering the move to corporate flying.
Im working for a cargo airline now and the fun is completely gone.
I just sit in a crewroom waiting and sometimes fly a bit.
I've been talking to some pilots of good corporate outfits and they seem very happy,there is a very low attrition rate (way better then the airlines) and good benefits!
carrying bags and cleaning the cabin once in a while doesn't bother me, we also did that in a small charter outfit i worked for many moons ago.
Another plus is that i would get to fly very modern equipment something i would never get to fly in my current outfit.
As with every job there are good things and bad things but i hope to get the chance to make the move!
Neil
Im working for a cargo airline now and the fun is completely gone.
I just sit in a crewroom waiting and sometimes fly a bit.
I've been talking to some pilots of good corporate outfits and they seem very happy,there is a very low attrition rate (way better then the airlines) and good benefits!
carrying bags and cleaning the cabin once in a while doesn't bother me, we also did that in a small charter outfit i worked for many moons ago.
Another plus is that i would get to fly very modern equipment something i would never get to fly in my current outfit.
As with every job there are good things and bad things but i hope to get the chance to make the move!
Neil
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Different people, different expectations...
I did it and have no regret whatsoever but to be fair, I have always wanted to do it. The airlines, although I enjoyed working for a reputable one, never fulffiled me in terms of job satisfaction, variety of destinations, leading edge technology, Pax/Crew relations and more.
It was just a job whereas today, I can say, I am really back in the business of doing what I really like. Sure it's not always easy, sure it's not perfect but it's sure beats the routine I had sunk in.
In my opinion, the receipe for success if you were to make such a move, is:
- You. Do you really want to do it ? How bored are you with what you do ? What are you looking for in this new job ? Direct contact with Pax (nice ones and not so nice one), the fun of being flexible with how the day goes ?
The acceptance that a GA outfit is not always an airline even if it looks like one.
- The outfit you join. Private Ops for one owner with perhaps its limited destinations but a stronger relationship with the owner and its potential, (whatever it might be, financial or else ). Is it a mickey mouse company where SOPs mean nothing to nobody (apart from being the synonym for "nuisance"). Can you live where it suits you (that all important Lifestyle word most of us settled down for), small company = limited number of colleagues ===> Good bunch ?
So if you have time, it might be worth writing a list of all the things you want (only to fly big stuff Vs don't mind small one) or are fed up with (locked door, downgraded product) and answer as many questions by yourself, only to know yourself and your future industry (GA) better.
Not that I had done it in such manner but, the number of ticked boxes in favour of going to GA rather than ending my career on a 73 or perhaps a 787, far outweighed the second option.
So since then, I m really happy at work and at home and would only consider the airlines again if I had no choice.
Like I said, different people, different expectations. I have met mine, try which one really meets yours.
Good luck
I did it and have no regret whatsoever but to be fair, I have always wanted to do it. The airlines, although I enjoyed working for a reputable one, never fulffiled me in terms of job satisfaction, variety of destinations, leading edge technology, Pax/Crew relations and more.
It was just a job whereas today, I can say, I am really back in the business of doing what I really like. Sure it's not always easy, sure it's not perfect but it's sure beats the routine I had sunk in.
In my opinion, the receipe for success if you were to make such a move, is:
- You. Do you really want to do it ? How bored are you with what you do ? What are you looking for in this new job ? Direct contact with Pax (nice ones and not so nice one), the fun of being flexible with how the day goes ?
The acceptance that a GA outfit is not always an airline even if it looks like one.
- The outfit you join. Private Ops for one owner with perhaps its limited destinations but a stronger relationship with the owner and its potential, (whatever it might be, financial or else ). Is it a mickey mouse company where SOPs mean nothing to nobody (apart from being the synonym for "nuisance"). Can you live where it suits you (that all important Lifestyle word most of us settled down for), small company = limited number of colleagues ===> Good bunch ?
So if you have time, it might be worth writing a list of all the things you want (only to fly big stuff Vs don't mind small one) or are fed up with (locked door, downgraded product) and answer as many questions by yourself, only to know yourself and your future industry (GA) better.
Not that I had done it in such manner but, the number of ticked boxes in favour of going to GA rather than ending my career on a 73 or perhaps a 787, far outweighed the second option.
So since then, I m really happy at work and at home and would only consider the airlines again if I had no choice.
Like I said, different people, different expectations. I have met mine, try which one really meets yours.
Good luck
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It is a completely other world than the airline world. Like mentioned before, attitude towards the job is very important. Some love it, some hate it. Be prepared to be flexible and to learn new things.
I've seen some airlinepilots that took this job for granted because they thought they would have the job on the challenger immediately because
they flew a 767 before. Well it is not working like that!!! As a pilot you are the ambassador of the company and a company wants to see that.
Anyway, good luck.
I've seen some airlinepilots that took this job for granted because they thought they would have the job on the challenger immediately because
they flew a 767 before. Well it is not working like that!!! As a pilot you are the ambassador of the company and a company wants to see that.
Anyway, good luck.
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Call me mad but a LGW-PMI-LGW 6am dept back home by 2 with the kid n wife , nothing beats it.
Oh, I dunno. I quite enjoy being fed cordon bleu cuisine in the cruise, tucking the aeroplane away on arrival and spending several days lounging around in an exotic location (for free) before buzzing home and having a week off.
At least we don't have to hose out the cabin afterward unlike some airlines
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Originally Posted by nineteeneightytwo
At least people are hired to do it and it isnt left to the crew
Oh, we get aircraft cleaners in although if it's just a quick whizz round with a Hoover and duster one of us will do it while the FA sets out the china, silverware, linen and crystal for dinner.
In fairness it can sometimes be a bit scrappy. For example, last time the starter was sushi, mozarella/tomato salad or parma ham followed by a selection of fish, filet mignon with bernaise sauce, Lobster Fra Diavolo or the vegetarian (pasta) option. For dessert I had the citrus sorbet, FO had the belgian chocolate and cassis mousse and I think the FA had New York cheescake.
The downside was that we had to do our own washing up. I tell you, this job is going to the dogs.
PS How much commission do the crew in airlines get for flogging Pringles and scratch cards?
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Funny you mention that Flintstone.. I reckon one of the few positives that have been from my move from corporate to airlines is that the crew meals are barely eatable so I've been losing a bit of weight! 
Of how I miss my cheeseboard and assorted condiments....
Of how I miss my cheeseboard and assorted condiments....
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"I quite enjoy being fed cordon bleu cuisine in the cruise, tucking the aeroplane away on arrival and spending several days lounging around in an exotic location (for free) before buzzing home and having a week off."
Flints, be so kind and let me know where to apply...
And stop telling these Airline guys how good life is in exec....
Let them know more about german and austrian employers, that will get them thinking me hopes!
Flints, be so kind and let me know where to apply...
And stop telling these Airline guys how good life is in exec....
Let them know more about german and austrian employers, that will get them thinking me hopes!
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As an ex-airline driver (737 F/O, ATR CP) I went on to the bizjets (bigger Citation) some time ago. Totally satisfied with flying, lifestyle (I've never had so much free time at home before), 450hrs/yr, nice salary, good company SOP's etc. Then I got an oportunity (not to miss ) to spend the summer season back on my lovely 737, LHS this time (the company is operating both bizjets and charters) just to realize how I miss the bizjet world... fortunately I'll be back in the winter 
As Neil Armstrong said in this thread, attrition is much lower on the bizjets!!!
) to spend the summer season back on my lovely 737, LHS this time (the company is operating both bizjets and charters) just to realize how I miss the bizjet world... fortunately I'll be back in the winter As Neil Armstrong said in this thread, attrition is much lower on the bizjets!!!
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As an F/O in my company, it is fantastic to have some of the older ex airline guys working with us as captains. Regardless of whether they did or didn't clean their own aircrafts during a turn around, their experience is a valuable asset to have within the company. Its especially good for us younger F/O's who can feed off of their experience. They also do stick to check list and SOP's because of the airline culture they've had bred into them over the years.
DG
DG
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Very varied
To answer your question the conditions, pay, roster, lifestyle etc...vary a great deal depending on the company you work for.
LEA, TAG uk, International Jet Club, Twinjet, Manhattan Jet Charter, Bookajet, 247 Jet, AV8, Hangar 8, GAMA, Titan, to name a few, all have bases in the UK.
Some companies will operate a 2 week on 2 week off roster, some a 28 on 28 off. You could be required to 'airline out' to the aircraft and 'airline back', not neccessarily having a base and not getting home for that period.
My advice would be to fire out a few cv's, try and get some interviews and see what they offer.
Good luck
Primarily looking for a UK Base and a DEC if possible.
Some companies will operate a 2 week on 2 week off roster, some a 28 on 28 off. You could be required to 'airline out' to the aircraft and 'airline back', not neccessarily having a base and not getting home for that period.
My advice would be to fire out a few cv's, try and get some interviews and see what they offer.
Good luck
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one thing to get used to is that you are flying a limousine not driving a bus, passenger comfort is right at the top of the list of priorities especially if it is a one owner aircraft. It makes a nice challenge not to have his/her G&T slide off the highly polished walnut table into the lap of his/her Gucci suit, especially while taxying .
and if he/she says not to wake them up with the seat belt light they mean it, they ignore it anyway.
My last boss used to wander up on final to look at his hotels out of the cockpit window.....
and if he/she says not to wake them up with the seat belt light they mean it, they ignore it anyway.
My last boss used to wander up on final to look at his hotels out of the cockpit window.....