Nice or Cannes?
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Funny all this as we use Aviapartner in Nice and rarely have any issues. parking down on PY, got fuel yesterday midday no problem, ATC even delayed our plan twice for us despite slots being issued.
Hotels booked, shuttles/taxis ordered, wash up and laundry done etc.
Hotels booked, shuttles/taxis ordered, wash up and laundry done etc.
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Nice or Cannes.
Thankyou ALL very much for this info.Certainly have benefited from this,and I will be busy checking into all the inputs.Cheers.
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If all else fails and it's very busy...Toulon any day! It's always quiet, fuel straight away and Signature down there are always very helpful. Mind you, your pax might not like the idea of sitting in a car to get to where ever they actually need to get to. Could always take the Helicopter across. I'd say from the pilot's point of view Toulon is perfect but just a tad too far from the likes of Cannes or Nice to make it a regular alternative.
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Cannes or Nice
Flinstone, I was based in Cannes for 8 months on a contract with a certain Canadian aircraft manufacturer. I learned the meaning of patience real quick, however I felt the operation at Cannes was always very professional. Operational limitations being what they are it still ran very smoothly there. Nice on the other hand, is a challenge to anyones sanity. If its not cabotage or crew visas as the treat of the week, then its something else to grab you.
CL300, I have definately taken the Operational course for Nice and read every available piece of info available. The fuel situation is not as predictable as the notams suggest. In theory they do operate with limitations, but add an attitute that suggests a fuel truck driver can call it quits in the middle of the afternoon with people stranded, and face no repercussions does make it challenging.
And unfortunately 125Euros is what it costs these days in a taxi between Cannes(actually Mandelieu) and Nice.
CL300, I have definately taken the Operational course for Nice and read every available piece of info available. The fuel situation is not as predictable as the notams suggest. In theory they do operate with limitations, but add an attitute that suggests a fuel truck driver can call it quits in the middle of the afternoon with people stranded, and face no repercussions does make it challenging.
And unfortunately 125Euros is what it costs these days in a taxi between Cannes(actually Mandelieu) and Nice.
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geewhizdriver
My taxi fare to Nice from Cannes is 70 €, +/-
The only thing I can say is that I did not see a lot of Canadian aircrafts on the tracks....
Fuel truck driver, no problem in Nice for me, with the right attitude nor in Cannes.
Have fun anyway, it is raining today and thunderstorms...
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CL300
Have to comment:
Having the right attitude after waiting for 2 hours is difficult, last time I was there my FO had to run in front of the truck to get him to stop.
The fact that the same ride for a french speaking person is 1/2 price would only lead me to think that French Taxi Drivers are rackateering.....
Funny that everybodys attitude get "frayed" when in Nice or Cannes.
Aviapartner.............Last minute catering request was dealt with by visiting the vending machine on the first floor (Having walked past the rather nice sandwich shop) and sticking two plastic packs of sandwiches in a posh looking silver box and sellotaping it down so that we wouldn't notice until in the cruise.....The Bill €150, also had a €2500 catering bill from aviapartner - IN A BRAVO!!!!
Swissport much better but the facility is not as good.
Overall very difficult to provide good customer service at either, if the pax will pay for the heli txfr to grimaud and you have time to get the Naval PPR then toulon is a good alternative, I woud even discount a charter to toulon and contribute to the heli to get my a/c back in the air probably 90mins sooner. Also Nice approach on most occasions will let you go direct hyeres from vevar letting you miss out on the "1/2 way to Palma" 5R arrival, a composite FP can also be filed to Toulon unlike LFMD
Have to comment:
Having the right attitude after waiting for 2 hours is difficult, last time I was there my FO had to run in front of the truck to get him to stop.
The fact that the same ride for a french speaking person is 1/2 price would only lead me to think that French Taxi Drivers are rackateering.....
Funny that everybodys attitude get "frayed" when in Nice or Cannes.
Aviapartner.............Last minute catering request was dealt with by visiting the vending machine on the first floor (Having walked past the rather nice sandwich shop) and sticking two plastic packs of sandwiches in a posh looking silver box and sellotaping it down so that we wouldn't notice until in the cruise.....The Bill €150, also had a €2500 catering bill from aviapartner - IN A BRAVO!!!!
Swissport much better but the facility is not as good.
Overall very difficult to provide good customer service at either, if the pax will pay for the heli txfr to grimaud and you have time to get the Naval PPR then toulon is a good alternative, I woud even discount a charter to toulon and contribute to the heli to get my a/c back in the air probably 90mins sooner. Also Nice approach on most occasions will let you go direct hyeres from vevar letting you miss out on the "1/2 way to Palma" 5R arrival, a composite FP can also be filed to Toulon unlike LFMD
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G-SPOTs Lost
you arre right on most of the things, back in 1993, Canes AIrport had a 1200m runway and we were landing with the falcon 10/20, sometimes sweating a bit; authorities made the biggest mistake by creating a so-called , IFR procedure, with the only intentions to be able to fine wrongdoings., 8 years later they finally got the switch with coordination and a 7500€ fine available PER FLIGHT !!
Even if the whole story is innaceptable, the authorities would not admit that they arein the wrong, until they decide they are, therefore we ( commissions)are driving them as fast as possible to the wall, for them to change the game.
We need increased capacity, we need better operating times, we need better accessibility, we need cheaper fuel, we need service; we have none of anything. I'm spending hours in the lobby to see how the others companies are dealing with this insane maze; unfortunately, the lack of communication, the inability to speak english is leading to mis interpretation and breakdown of the chain.
FPL Y in Cannes... the rule was made to try to alleviate the peak traffic on fridays evening when 12 to 14 incoming jet were showing up from nearly all quadrants, trying to bypass the regulation LFMDA2. We are planning a long lasting development of the platform; in 2000 the airport was that close to shutdown for Jet/turboprop operations; we kept it open with trade offs; we need to climb back to an acceptable level, a level that would satisfy all parties.
The biggest issue we have is the non-compliance of the tracks and the operating procedure outlined in the Jepps, which is the clean configuration up to PIBON, and the fact that even on a visual approach, the tracks are to be followed. Yes even in the turn
For the time being the compliance rate is less than 50% ( Netjets is 90% compliant); most of the private operators do not have a part C; and the overseas pilots ( US and the likes) generally,do not have a clue about PANOps4 and other limitations.
The consequence of all this is a mere statu-quo ; which is not acceptable for the future.
Nice fuel; long story, political issues, will be discussed all through the summer and beyond; not a lot of leeway in this.
Nice catering through Avia... cannot comment I was using them when they were Air Azur, and besides Barbara and a couple of guys I do know anyone in there. We are using swissport, works ok, but Nice is a nightmare in itself; we expect a lot when the actual DGAC director will retire ( September) and when Nice Airport will go private ( This summer); until then we will have to suffer.
Toulon is a good alternative as Albenga then helo..
As an overall picture, even if there is a 'promenade des anglais' in Nice, and that 'la croisette' speaks english in summer; street people are not familiar with the english langage, and are ripping off tourists ( ie non southEastern french people) when they can.
Now it is sunny again ..LoL
you arre right on most of the things, back in 1993, Canes AIrport had a 1200m runway and we were landing with the falcon 10/20, sometimes sweating a bit; authorities made the biggest mistake by creating a so-called , IFR procedure, with the only intentions to be able to fine wrongdoings., 8 years later they finally got the switch with coordination and a 7500€ fine available PER FLIGHT !!
Even if the whole story is innaceptable, the authorities would not admit that they arein the wrong, until they decide they are, therefore we ( commissions)are driving them as fast as possible to the wall, for them to change the game.
We need increased capacity, we need better operating times, we need better accessibility, we need cheaper fuel, we need service; we have none of anything. I'm spending hours in the lobby to see how the others companies are dealing with this insane maze; unfortunately, the lack of communication, the inability to speak english is leading to mis interpretation and breakdown of the chain.
FPL Y in Cannes... the rule was made to try to alleviate the peak traffic on fridays evening when 12 to 14 incoming jet were showing up from nearly all quadrants, trying to bypass the regulation LFMDA2. We are planning a long lasting development of the platform; in 2000 the airport was that close to shutdown for Jet/turboprop operations; we kept it open with trade offs; we need to climb back to an acceptable level, a level that would satisfy all parties.
The biggest issue we have is the non-compliance of the tracks and the operating procedure outlined in the Jepps, which is the clean configuration up to PIBON, and the fact that even on a visual approach, the tracks are to be followed. Yes even in the turn
For the time being the compliance rate is less than 50% ( Netjets is 90% compliant); most of the private operators do not have a part C; and the overseas pilots ( US and the likes) generally,do not have a clue about PANOps4 and other limitations.The consequence of all this is a mere statu-quo ; which is not acceptable for the future.
Nice fuel; long story, political issues, will be discussed all through the summer and beyond; not a lot of leeway in this.
Nice catering through Avia... cannot comment I was using them when they were Air Azur, and besides Barbara and a couple of guys I do know anyone in there. We are using swissport, works ok, but Nice is a nightmare in itself; we expect a lot when the actual DGAC director will retire ( September) and when Nice Airport will go private ( This summer); until then we will have to suffer.
Toulon is a good alternative as Albenga then helo..
As an overall picture, even if there is a 'promenade des anglais' in Nice, and that 'la croisette' speaks english in summer; street people are not familiar with the english langage, and are ripping off tourists ( ie non southEastern french people) when they can.
Now it is sunny again ..LoL
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Nice is nice
On the fuel issue,
do it when arriving, just coordinate with your handler, we tanker fuel into Nice. and try to land with a minimum of 10k lbs, so if we have quick call out we can cover most of Europe.
The French...
Over the years I learned that , a lot of "please" and nice persistence, and not the pesky GOD attitude, will get everything done with a sometimes quick fix or slight delay. And the tipping certainly works, as everyone is working on a low pay scale, so create the incentive.
Plan your arrival when prior leaving from your departure airport. This LFMN approach from every way is a demanding one, with visual, radials and FMS waypoints combined that don't make it easy. It does get busy out there, and they do it the french way, so laeve your temper at the departure gate.
Check your nav box as many turn and twists exists, you seldomly see at other airports, typically French (?)
In all Nice has enough parking, just coordinate. Catering the same, give ample time.
You guys fly in Europe you know the drill. Time Management, Nice, Cannes is the epiphany of it, with all the good and the bad.
And if you want to save money, take the bus E1,25 or train. Much cheaper.
I will be there tonight, again, for the X time, and many more to go.
Go enjoy the girls on the beach, or boys if you so incline ...
do it when arriving, just coordinate with your handler, we tanker fuel into Nice. and try to land with a minimum of 10k lbs, so if we have quick call out we can cover most of Europe.
The French...
Over the years I learned that , a lot of "please" and nice persistence, and not the pesky GOD attitude, will get everything done with a sometimes quick fix or slight delay. And the tipping certainly works, as everyone is working on a low pay scale, so create the incentive.
Plan your arrival when prior leaving from your departure airport. This LFMN approach from every way is a demanding one, with visual, radials and FMS waypoints combined that don't make it easy. It does get busy out there, and they do it the french way, so laeve your temper at the departure gate.
Check your nav box as many turn and twists exists, you seldomly see at other airports, typically French (?)
In all Nice has enough parking, just coordinate. Catering the same, give ample time.
You guys fly in Europe you know the drill. Time Management, Nice, Cannes is the epiphany of it, with all the good and the bad.
And if you want to save money, take the bus E1,25 or train. Much cheaper.
I will be there tonight, again, for the X time, and many more to go.
Go enjoy the girls on the beach, or boys if you so incline ...
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Cannes or Nice
I'd love to be able to fuel upon arrival. But nature of some operations negate the option, as putting return fuel to North America on, screws you when the boss wants to go to Palma!
As far as the speaking French issue goes, although they despise my Quebec french it still works, and I can see no difference in attitude towards Nationals, myself and Anglais!
While I was fueling last Sunday, before the driver called it quits for the day, 2 other locals were begging him for fuel. They had pax waiting on board, and very tight on fuel. One guy even asked me to give up fueling, so he could get enough to get out of there. Even though that would have left me without fuel to go home. How many guys are departing with absolutely min. fuel because of the situation. I'm just suggesting that no matter how well you plan and know the "tricks" it can still bite you in Nice!
But it's still great to go and watch the girls at the beach!
As far as the speaking French issue goes, although they despise my Quebec french it still works, and I can see no difference in attitude towards Nationals, myself and Anglais!
While I was fueling last Sunday, before the driver called it quits for the day, 2 other locals were begging him for fuel. They had pax waiting on board, and very tight on fuel. One guy even asked me to give up fueling, so he could get enough to get out of there. Even though that would have left me without fuel to go home. How many guys are departing with absolutely min. fuel because of the situation. I'm just suggesting that no matter how well you plan and know the "tricks" it can still bite you in Nice!
But it's still great to go and watch the girls at the beach!
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Nice vs. Cannes
In a nutshell, the attitude, close in parking and service, and lack of 'Nice-ness' make Cannes a better choice unless any restrictions apply (PPL, parking, WX, etc). I've been to both several times and much prefer Cannes as they seem to be more helpful and attentive. Nice handlers seem to have an attitude that I can do without if able.
Cheers,
1 Bingo
Cheers,
1 Bingo
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Public Transport out of La Mole is a straight no on citations. I operate in there privately on the C52A. Its not too bad, but can catch the unwary out as you need to do the performance carefully.
SKP
SKP
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I'm in and out of Nice all the time at the moment in a 604, can someone tell me WHY is fuel such a big issue? Why can't they have adequate supplies? Two days ago only Esso was giving fuel, all the other companies had stopped, whats going on?
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CL300 Quote:
A european law regulates where fuel can be stored, in Nice ( telluric area) there is no underground piping , leading to refuel with trucks. Fuel is coming from 200 Km away, and fuel trucks cannot drive with JEt A1 on week ends. As a consequence, fuel shortage can occur on specific times. But see, you had fuel, so the girl was right, had you showed up the day of departure , your boss would have loved the 5 hours on the ground.
Fueller are running in 12 hours shifts 24/7 at night there is a 3 hours coordination time frame. Everything is published, you have to read, I believed you read the Aiport specific training to get into Nice ? Insurance do not cover the operation on overtime frame; do you want to be refuelled with no insurance ? I do not think so.
Copied for people too lazy to read from above.. LoL
A european law regulates where fuel can be stored, in Nice ( telluric area) there is no underground piping , leading to refuel with trucks. Fuel is coming from 200 Km away, and fuel trucks cannot drive with JEt A1 on week ends. As a consequence, fuel shortage can occur on specific times. But see, you had fuel, so the girl was right, had you showed up the day of departure , your boss would have loved the 5 hours on the ground.
Fueller are running in 12 hours shifts 24/7 at night there is a 3 hours coordination time frame. Everything is published, you have to read, I believed you read the Aiport specific training to get into Nice ? Insurance do not cover the operation on overtime frame; do you want to be refuelled with no insurance ? I do not think so.
Copied for people too lazy to read from above.. LoL
