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JAR ATPL issue and Flightsafety

Old 8th Apr 2008, 18:19
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JAR ATPL issue and Flightsafety

Having just gone to Flightsafety in the States and had my first MPA endorsed onto my JAA CPL I am wondering how I may now gain my JAA ATPL. I already hold all the hours and experience required for licence issue. However a couple of guys have told me that the LST which was completed at Flightsafety is not valid for a JAA ATPL licence issue as most American examiners do not hold JAA licences themselves and therefore cant grant "foreign" licences.

Just wondering if anybody has any thoughts on this matter. I am even wondering about going to FS @ Farnbourgh and doing the skills test in one of their sims but not sure about the cost involved. I imagine that this isn't the first time that this question has been asked.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 18:29
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When I did my TR at Flight Safety @ Wichita, they flew a JAA TRE out from Farnborough to do my LST. If they knew you were a JAA licence holder they should have provided a JAA examiner I would have thought.
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 18:32
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bf99,

a number of FSI examiners, at various Training Centres, DO hold JAA licences, just for this reason. Are you sure your guy didn't? If he/she did then you should be ok, if they didnt i think you're right and will need a JAA examiner.

Good luck
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 18:54
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Thanks for your responses guys. People have told me that if examiner's number starts with 100 (or something similar) I'm out of luck and mine does. How strict is the CAA when it comes to this?
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 20:16
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People have told me that if examiner's number starts with 100 (or something similar) I'm out of luck and mine does.
They have a liaison person at this training centre? Email or call them (or the examiner) - don't trust friends' (potentially wrong) information, you need to be 100% certain.
How strict is the CAA when it comes to this?
Totally!!
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 20:20
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You should check whether the examiner was JAA or not. I had to get CAA approval as the simulator wasn't JAA qualified, FSI arranged for the JAA examiner to come from FAB. Checked my licence and his number starts 100. CAA never said anything when I sent the paperwork in....
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 20:51
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Thumbs up

Thanks for all your replies. I will give FS a ring.
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 21:23
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BF99 Even if the Examiner holds a JAA licence I think they need to have approval from the CAA to carry out the test. FSI in the States told me to get the CAA to send a "letter of approval" to them so that their JAA Examiner could do the flight test. Needless to say the CAA would not do this and it quickly turned into a nightmare etc.. etc...
You may already know this but you need to carry out an ATPL flight test? I'm not sure if an initial covers it. The LPC does not cover it anymore.

Good luck
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 22:07
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The examiner has to have 'ATPL-LST' on his examiner authority. Most FSI examiners do not have this authority.
If you have a UK CAA national licence then it can go on there and you do not need an ATPL skills test. You can then convert the UK CAA national ATPL to a JAA ATPL. You have to pay a fee of course.
If you only have a JAA licence then yes you must do a ATPL skills test which can be a pre-arranged part of the type rating checkride. You need the SRG 1187 form signed and the ATPL skills test box ticked by the examiner.
However, it is not FSI responsibility to work that out, you have to ask them for it when you arrange the rating. It is on all the forms you fill in when requesting the training.


Oh and one other thing; the UK CAA will no longer give one-off ATPL-LST authority to examiners like they used to.
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Old 9th Apr 2008, 07:25
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Bluefox99 I'm a little confused here. You say:

Having just gone to Flightsafety in the States and had my first MPA endorsed onto my JAA CPL
and:
I already hold all the hours and experience required for licence issue.
Now, as far as I understand it, you need 500 mulit-crew hours on JAR 25 aircraft before you have the hours for licence issue. Once you get the 500 hours, the following LPC can be used as your ATPL LST if your FSI has an appropriate examiner.

Cheers,

Chips
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Old 9th Apr 2008, 09:22
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Bluefox

I am also slightly confused.

Did FSI only provide you with a type rating or did they also do an LST for you, which is what they normally do on the check ride, double them up so your IR has a year to run with your new type.

If this is the case, then the FSI examiner must have been JAR approved to give you the final check ride.

Even if he only gave you the type rating and no LST, for the examiner to give you the check ride at the end of the training, surely he must be JAR approved too, the rating is going on to a JAR licence.
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Old 9th Apr 2008, 19:29
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This just proves how silly the system can be. One can be in a situation where he/she has 1500+ hrs fulfill all the ATPL hours requirements have passed all the groundschool exams but because he/she has not completed a LST (which I'm sure is no more difficult than a JAR LPC) cannot take command in a flight for revenue environment. This affect GA more than airliners as most of the TRE in the airlines would have the authority to conduct LST on your initial type rating flights.

The licencing requirements do not reflect the possible experience levels one might have.
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Old 9th Apr 2008, 21:42
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South coast,

As far as Im aware there is a big difference between granting a rating and granting a licence.
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Old 9th Apr 2008, 22:12
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As I said before, you can do a type rating LPC/IR with any approved JAA LPC examiner and provided you have a UK national licence with all the other requirements it will open your ATPL. If you need a JAA licence you then transfer from UK ATPL to JAA ATPL for the appropriate fee.

JAA on the other hand require all the above plus a tick in the ATPL-LST box on the SRG1187 form. Only an CAA approved ATPL-LST examiner can tick that box. The reason it is different is that he is issuing you with a licence to command not just authority to sit in the seat.
If you book that in advance then FSI will arrange it.

Not complicated at all, just requires a bit of researchl

I know this because I have just done it, and had the same problems.
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