JetBird
Join Date: Jan 2005
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100% agree suitcaseman! I think JB has so far been promt and professional in dealing with applications.
Raven, Instead of moaning about your potential employer - before having actually started working for them! - I would keep a low profile and be just happy that you are still in ... and not out.
Good luck to all!
Raven, Instead of moaning about your potential employer - before having actually started working for them! - I would keep a low profile and be just happy that you are still in ... and not out.
Good luck to all!
Join Date: Aug 2006
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I think that this Company have been exemplary with their dealings with prospective pilots. One of the few that even answer your e-mails is unusual in this business. I've worked for BA and their so called regional counterparts for 12 years and I have to say that the phone call I had from a member of their staff recently far oughtweighed the bombastic attitude of my previous employer. They are trying ... Give them a chance.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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It's great to see an operation actively recruiting. 100 Phenoms will surely need a serious chunk of the european furloughed Biz crew.
Have the initial aircraft now been delivered, or a date set for the same? I take it that any earlier whispers of 'finance' difficulties was completely unfounded.
Have the initial aircraft now been delivered, or a date set for the same? I take it that any earlier whispers of 'finance' difficulties was completely unfounded.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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My apologies, I phrased that badly - has anyone been invited to the first set of face-to-face interviews?
Anybody else get a similar email?
All the best, VG.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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I received the email about my application being current. From what I have heard they have received anything between 4000 - 4500 applications. Sign of the times it seems.
Good luck to everyone.
Good luck to everyone.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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I got word yesterday, I'm through to the personal interview passed the telephone one. Thank god! I was also told be later in the year.
I agree Jetbird have been very professional when dealing with recruitment. Nothing but helpful. Most places don't even reply when you send a CV or an update. Every time I've email they have replied.
I know someone who did the interview in person (someone was asking about it here ), said it's very nice. Very relaxed. There's also a Technical question paper I think.
I agree Jetbird have been very professional when dealing with recruitment. Nothing but helpful. Most places don't even reply when you send a CV or an update. Every time I've email they have replied.
I know someone who did the interview in person (someone was asking about it here ), said it's very nice. Very relaxed. There's also a Technical question paper I think.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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A fascinating post Flat Spin.
Seemingly infinite posts from those getting emails and phone calls, one can't help but be cautiously optimistic. If not on an individual level; for the industry as a whole.
Where are the aircraft? Where is the AOC? Your post would suggest that a 'go live' is not certain. Anything you care to share with us?
Please tell me this is not another JR. PLEASE
I always thought that BJets in India was a sure thing given the relative strength of the Indian / Asian economy. Orders for 20 x CJ2 sounded pretty great to me. I believe that BJets are only operating 2.
Seemingly infinite posts from those getting emails and phone calls, one can't help but be cautiously optimistic. If not on an individual level; for the industry as a whole.
Where are the aircraft? Where is the AOC? Your post would suggest that a 'go live' is not certain. Anything you care to share with us?
Please tell me this is not another JR. PLEASE
I always thought that BJets in India was a sure thing given the relative strength of the Indian / Asian economy. Orders for 20 x CJ2 sounded pretty great to me. I believe that BJets are only operating 2.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Last time I looked BJets fleet hadn't really grown from what it had a year or so ago.
It pains to see good guys out of work - ex colleagues, uni friends, etc. BUT I can't see lasting. You can't really use the spin of how good they are at contacting people - Jonny B took a very bullish approach towards marketing and drummed up about as much support as turkeys voting for christmas.
Anyone with any common sense wouldn't be investing a huge ammount in a brand new airline with unprooved aircraft - for all we know the Phenom could turn out to be a complete turd after a year's hard graft at the hands of charter clients.
Sorry to be so pessmistic - if they get off the ground then I recon 20 aircraft get delivered before a major rethink of the business plan.
It pains to see good guys out of work - ex colleagues, uni friends, etc. BUT I can't see lasting. You can't really use the spin of how good they are at contacting people - Jonny B took a very bullish approach towards marketing and drummed up about as much support as turkeys voting for christmas.
Anyone with any common sense wouldn't be investing a huge ammount in a brand new airline with unprooved aircraft - for all we know the Phenom could turn out to be a complete turd after a year's hard graft at the hands of charter clients.
Sorry to be so pessmistic - if they get off the ground then I recon 20 aircraft get delivered before a major rethink of the business plan.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Well, I guess we will know by the end of the year. People will have gone to the interviews and sim screening, aircraft will have been ferried to Cologne, and the inauguration flight will have taken off... or not. So, let's just sit back and watch what's happening.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I would understand that any VLJ Business Model will require multiple bases to be cost competitive; hence 100 phenoms. Taxi Ranks / Grid Squares etc are potentially great news for pilot recruitment.
Germany ( indeed Europe ) have no lack of highly competitive CJ / Bravo / King Air Operators.
With only one initial ' live ' base how will JB compete? They are not doing anything new.
With a limited knowledge, I am surprised that JB are not lauching with at least 3 or 4 bases to best compete within the established market. Perhaps they are planning a very rapid expansion as we move to the 2010 summer season. Could be good news for clients and pilots alike?
Germany ( indeed Europe ) have no lack of highly competitive CJ / Bravo / King Air Operators.
With only one initial ' live ' base how will JB compete? They are not doing anything new.
With a limited knowledge, I am surprised that JB are not lauching with at least 3 or 4 bases to best compete within the established market. Perhaps they are planning a very rapid expansion as we move to the 2010 summer season. Could be good news for clients and pilots alike?
Join Date: Dec 2008
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It's always nice when an operator treats you decently when it comes to job application, but spending so much time to recruit few pilots with quiet low requirements isn't really worth unless its part of a marketing move. How much this recruitment campaign will cost them while it wouldn't have been difficult to gather the first few pilots at no costs?
How many pilots firmly recruited that way so far? Wait and see how it goes, but in business you don't last if you start spending money and time just to be nice.
How many pilots firmly recruited that way so far? Wait and see how it goes, but in business you don't last if you start spending money and time just to be nice.
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Equally, you do not make money if you ultimately cannot afford to purchase the aircraft!
JR were 'trumpeting' in all the press yet failed to launch.
It's fabulous that finally there is a company recruiting. More, that there are so many pages of hope. Emails / telephone interviews etc serve to lift our spirits.
I've been really concerned by this thread of late. A few of our posters seem to know that all is not well. Only a fool wouldn't be suspicious.
JR were 'trumpeting' in all the press yet failed to launch.
It's fabulous that finally there is a company recruiting. More, that there are so many pages of hope. Emails / telephone interviews etc serve to lift our spirits.
I've been really concerned by this thread of late. A few of our posters seem to know that all is not well. Only a fool wouldn't be suspicious.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Don't get your hopes too high
JB is just an empty shell with little sense of business.
Taking interviews is the cheapest way of letting the world know that they are intending to start their business.
Just think realistically, if you cannot take delivery of at least 5 to 10 aircraft while shouting to the world what your intentions are with 100 Phenom's, one should question if ANY financing is in place.
I absolutely do not question the product Phenom 100 for this job but remain very critical in the ability of the current management to get started as well the readiness of initial financers to put their money in this ambitious adventure. As said before, I question the competence of the current management to get the business model running, based on the impressions I got while being involved in this project.
Taking interviews is the cheapest way of letting the world know that they are intending to start their business.
Just think realistically, if you cannot take delivery of at least 5 to 10 aircraft while shouting to the world what your intentions are with 100 Phenom's, one should question if ANY financing is in place.
I absolutely do not question the product Phenom 100 for this job but remain very critical in the ability of the current management to get started as well the readiness of initial financers to put their money in this ambitious adventure. As said before, I question the competence of the current management to get the business model running, based on the impressions I got while being involved in this project.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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To be honest, LLover is correct on this point: One must ask, where are the first jets? Something is not right, otherwise they would be on timeline, speaking flying and doing business at this time. Anyone knows the reason for still delaying?
I´ve heard, concering an AOC in Cologne nothing is happening. Even though at the beginning, some month ago, people were getting active in CGN. Not anymore. Like dead. So, what´s going on?
I´ve heard, concering an AOC in Cologne nothing is happening. Even though at the beginning, some month ago, people were getting active in CGN. Not anymore. Like dead. So, what´s going on?
Join Date: Jun 2004
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JB
There is no AOC and they are trying to use " Hangar 8" AOC to get started. Not having an AOC after so many years of prep might give you an impression of the competence of the responsible management.
Mechanics, no matter how good they are in their proffesion, are not always capable in keeping up with what is required and taking the responsibility to bring things to a good end. It is just this level that has to see if they can get an AOC for such a complicated operation and business.
The people responsible to get this all started do lack the knowledge to see this and gambled wrong. Its simply not going to work, aside from the financial mess they are in.
Mechanics, no matter how good they are in their proffesion, are not always capable in keeping up with what is required and taking the responsibility to bring things to a good end. It is just this level that has to see if they can get an AOC for such a complicated operation and business.
The people responsible to get this all started do lack the knowledge to see this and gambled wrong. Its simply not going to work, aside from the financial mess they are in.
Join Date: Aug 2004
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I must say that I was very unimpressed when I read this article in the times in feb 2008...
I always like to have TCAS when I am away from the busiest sections of airspace! 
Boom in private jets with safety loophole raises risk of collision
Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
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The growth in the number of small, private jets could cause a mid-air crash because a loophole in safety rules means that they lack collision- avoidance systems, according to Europe’s air traffic regulator.
This month the first of a new breed of very light jets, known as VLJs, began operating from small airports in Britain. More than 100 are due to be delivered to air taxi companies and private operators in Europe each year for the next decade, according to Eurocontrol, the Brussels-based body that oversees air traffic control. They will operate in controlled airspace at similar heights to airliners but will not have the advanced safety systems that prevent collisions.
The Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) is a cockpit device that monitors the airspace within 40 miles of the aircraft and informs pilots when there is any risk posed by another plane. If two aircraft continue on a collision course the system instructs one aircraft to climb and the other to descend. If one aircraft does not have the system or if it is not working properly, a collision may still occur.
In September 2006 154 passengers and crew onboard a Gol Airlines Boeing 737 died after an Embraer Legacy business jet sliced off its wing tip in Brazil. The 737 plunged 37,000ft (11,278m) into jungle. The Legacy was damaged but landed safely. Investigators found that the TCAS of the Legacy was not operating and could not correspond with the 737’s system.
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Under international aviation safety rules all jets weighing more than 5.7 tonnes must have TCAS. VLJs typically weigh less than 4 tonnes and are therefore exempt.
Alex Hendriks, the deputy director of air traffic management strategies at Eurocontrol, told The Times: “TCAS is mandatory for airlines because of safety considerations. Why should we exclude a certain category of aircraft just because they are small?
“It is the same as saying that motorcycles are smaller than cars and therefore don’t have to have lights when they are ridden at night.” Mr Hendriks is leading a review about VLJs and the consequences for European airspace safety and capacity. One of the key questions is whether VLJs should lose their exemption from the TCAS requirement.
Mr Hendriks, a pilot who recently flew a Cessna Mustang light jet across the Atlantic, said: “We have already warned the VLJ operators that there may be additional regulations that will force them to have the full TCAS that airlines have. The risk will increase as the traffic increases.
“We don’t want to wait for a crash before we come up with a regulation.”
Any new regulation may not come into force until 2012 to allow operators time to install the equipment. It will cost £100,000 to equip each aircraft. The cramped cockpits may have to be redesigned to accommodate the equipment.
Jet Bird, which has ordered 100 Embraer Phenom VLJs and plans to start an air taxi service in Europe next year, has decided against fitting the system.
Stefan Vilner, its chief executive, said: “First of all it’s very costly and secondly it’s not required.”
He added: “I don’t think our customers would have a clue whether it was there or not. If you catch a Ryanair flight you don’t think about its TCAS, you assume safety is a given.”
Mr Vilner said that the risk of a collision would be minimised because Jet Bird would be operating away from the busiest sections of airspace.
David Kaminski-Morrow, of Flight International magazine, said: “Europe’s skies are already congested and VLJs will make them more so. I hope it won’t take a mid-air collision before VLJ operators start considering whether the safety investment is worth making for their passengers and their business.”
Eurocontrol is also concerned that VLJs will cause delays to scheduled flights because they operate at as little as half the speed of airliners.
Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
Recommend?
The growth in the number of small, private jets could cause a mid-air crash because a loophole in safety rules means that they lack collision- avoidance systems, according to Europe’s air traffic regulator.
This month the first of a new breed of very light jets, known as VLJs, began operating from small airports in Britain. More than 100 are due to be delivered to air taxi companies and private operators in Europe each year for the next decade, according to Eurocontrol, the Brussels-based body that oversees air traffic control. They will operate in controlled airspace at similar heights to airliners but will not have the advanced safety systems that prevent collisions.
The Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TCAS) is a cockpit device that monitors the airspace within 40 miles of the aircraft and informs pilots when there is any risk posed by another plane. If two aircraft continue on a collision course the system instructs one aircraft to climb and the other to descend. If one aircraft does not have the system or if it is not working properly, a collision may still occur.
In September 2006 154 passengers and crew onboard a Gol Airlines Boeing 737 died after an Embraer Legacy business jet sliced off its wing tip in Brazil. The 737 plunged 37,000ft (11,278m) into jungle. The Legacy was damaged but landed safely. Investigators found that the TCAS of the Legacy was not operating and could not correspond with the 737’s system.
Related Links
Under international aviation safety rules all jets weighing more than 5.7 tonnes must have TCAS. VLJs typically weigh less than 4 tonnes and are therefore exempt.
Alex Hendriks, the deputy director of air traffic management strategies at Eurocontrol, told The Times: “TCAS is mandatory for airlines because of safety considerations. Why should we exclude a certain category of aircraft just because they are small?
“It is the same as saying that motorcycles are smaller than cars and therefore don’t have to have lights when they are ridden at night.” Mr Hendriks is leading a review about VLJs and the consequences for European airspace safety and capacity. One of the key questions is whether VLJs should lose their exemption from the TCAS requirement.
Mr Hendriks, a pilot who recently flew a Cessna Mustang light jet across the Atlantic, said: “We have already warned the VLJ operators that there may be additional regulations that will force them to have the full TCAS that airlines have. The risk will increase as the traffic increases.
“We don’t want to wait for a crash before we come up with a regulation.”
Any new regulation may not come into force until 2012 to allow operators time to install the equipment. It will cost £100,000 to equip each aircraft. The cramped cockpits may have to be redesigned to accommodate the equipment.
Jet Bird, which has ordered 100 Embraer Phenom VLJs and plans to start an air taxi service in Europe next year, has decided against fitting the system.
Stefan Vilner, its chief executive, said: “First of all it’s very costly and secondly it’s not required.”
He added: “I don’t think our customers would have a clue whether it was there or not. If you catch a Ryanair flight you don’t think about its TCAS, you assume safety is a given.”
Mr Vilner said that the risk of a collision would be minimised because Jet Bird would be operating away from the busiest sections of airspace.
David Kaminski-Morrow, of Flight International magazine, said: “Europe’s skies are already congested and VLJs will make them more so. I hope it won’t take a mid-air collision before VLJ operators start considering whether the safety investment is worth making for their passengers and their business.”
Eurocontrol is also concerned that VLJs will cause delays to scheduled flights because they operate at as little as half the speed of airliners.
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TCAS or no TCAS; it really doesn't matter in the absence of the requisite funding?
I guess Hangar 8, or indeed anyone else, might have to think very carefully before 'lending' their AOC to the competition.
I guess Hangar 8, or indeed anyone else, might have to think very carefully before 'lending' their AOC to the competition.