Netjets seniority list
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hmm
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see the problem the Date of Joining system either. In my mind, this is the fairest sytem out there. Remember when they wanted to only count captains year towards any seniority credit? This was vigorously opposed during the last recurrent I was at. Seems like they did listen this time!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: sheraton
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its I think the only system possible. Thats what seniority is about, it has nothing to do with grade or type of aircraft.
The only thing a bit strange would be that rule whereby for people in the same day of joining the seniority would be based on date of birth!
Now thats irrelevant!
That being sid, this is the way its been done all over the world.
The only thing a bit strange would be that rule whereby for people in the same day of joining the seniority would be based on date of birth!
Now thats irrelevant!
That being sid, this is the way its been done all over the world.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is out now.....
So the seniority system is up and running......
I made a guess in the past about 10+ years to a nice plane in this company for the new joiners.
Seems correct...
I made a guess in the past about 10+ years to a nice plane in this company for the new joiners.
Seems correct...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: In the dark
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The information i had put on a very big screen infront of me showed the number of ferries going down.
. We are also slightly less restricted with performance on the H400s than we used to be saving the Bravos etc from extra work.
In the summer, especially when a major football event is taking place, airports will often restrict us to 1 to 3 hr parking forceing us to ferry out then back in again later. There is nothing NJE can do about it but if more of our popular airports do this then it could hit home.
We also operate to a fair few small airports that do not have fuel forcing an extra ferry to a nearby airport to tanker fuel. Agian not a lot NJE can do about it but it all adds up.
I really dont see how the powers that be can track all the different factors that affect the market and proffits.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from LA
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So the seniority system is up and running......
I made a guess in the past about 10+ years to a nice plane in this company for the new joiners.
Seems correct...
I made a guess in the past about 10+ years to a nice plane in this company for the new joiners.
Seems correct...
What is a nice airplane ? Why are you joining ?
If your idea of a nice Nice airplane is the bigger the better, if your ego cannot be satisfied with an Excel or a 125; please do not come to NTA !
If you have the hours, it is highly likely you would join on a midsize, upgrade in it and work...If not , You might join on a large cabin for 3/4 years, bump up the hours, then have command on a Bravo or else for another 4 years; then you will have the opportunity to have a bigger aircraft.
What difference a seniority list makes ?
NONE !!!
Why because it is market driven expansion, the seniority list is just a tool to align people in A order for bidding; however the company has always the right to deem this policy as necessary... So again, If you want to join the EASIEST place to work for in the GA arena in Europe, you are welcome; if not...Well you have U2 and the like to cover your ego sized aircraft.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: near my gateway
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ cl300: that says it all I guess...
Why is it that in the world of civil aviation everybody is making so much fuss about the type of aircraft ????
I've asked this several times, and nobody could really answer it
I personally like the small planes with a big(ger) percentage of VFR flying and smaller legs and more approaches (compared to the long range stuff, and I've flown short and long range alot).
Why:
because I LIKE flying manually, because I LIKE flying approaches, because I LIKE flying many legs a day, because I LIKE short field ops, etc...
Why do I like all this:
because I'm a pilot !
but of course, that's just my personal opinion
Cheers to all, Olli
Why is it that in the world of civil aviation everybody is making so much fuss about the type of aircraft ????
I've asked this several times, and nobody could really answer it
I personally like the small planes with a big(ger) percentage of VFR flying and smaller legs and more approaches (compared to the long range stuff, and I've flown short and long range alot).
Why:
because I LIKE flying manually, because I LIKE flying approaches, because I LIKE flying many legs a day, because I LIKE short field ops, etc...
Why do I like all this:
because I'm a pilot !
but of course, that's just my personal opinion
Cheers to all, Olli
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lifter
I think it is a little foolish to think that flying by hand, doing lots of sectors, flying VFR and doing short field ops is the definition of being a pilot.
Perhaps in your opinion it is, perhaps it was a hundred years ago, but it certainly is not these days.
Being a pilot covers such a vast range of factors so people who want to do the long range and high level of automation flying have equal right to consider that that is what being a pilot is all about these days.
To be totally correct, a pilot is a person who guides a large ship into port.
We are aviators which I suppose describes more than just the flying side of the job.
I think it is a little foolish to think that flying by hand, doing lots of sectors, flying VFR and doing short field ops is the definition of being a pilot.
Perhaps in your opinion it is, perhaps it was a hundred years ago, but it certainly is not these days.
Being a pilot covers such a vast range of factors so people who want to do the long range and high level of automation flying have equal right to consider that that is what being a pilot is all about these days.
To be totally correct, a pilot is a person who guides a large ship into port.
We are aviators which I suppose describes more than just the flying side of the job.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Innerspace
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lifter
although I have sympathy for your thoughts I feel urged to recommend you some more patience before you make a statement like you did. Working for NJE is not smoking a pack of cigarettes in a Transall (hell, you prob had some other challenges . . .). Its far more then what you describe and unfortunatley much more then pushing buttons and flying a visual into Samedan. You are a Manager in a highly demanding environment, far away from any glamorous piloting clichee. (Pardon my bad french . . .). Those sectors can be hell and you will hate the company on day six, trust me it will come.
So back to the topic. NJE is more and more like any other big company in respect of seniority. We have the seniority ranking which taken by itself is useless. You have to combine it with the policy and then find out. Your time to upgrade is not really affected by the seniority list so far. Once the growth comes to an end (maybe soon) then the upgrade process might take somewhat longer. Fleetchanges are a diffrent story, asking solely the list doesnt do you any good.
If you want to work for NJE then some should consider the follwing:
- Size doesnt matter (well, my mistress says different . . .
)
- Know the package
- Love the package
- Know the lifestyle
- Love the lifestyle
- Know the flying
- Love the flying
If you did all this and can answer with yes, then Smeagel is the only one who might stop you
although I have sympathy for your thoughts I feel urged to recommend you some more patience before you make a statement like you did. Working for NJE is not smoking a pack of cigarettes in a Transall (hell, you prob had some other challenges . . .). Its far more then what you describe and unfortunatley much more then pushing buttons and flying a visual into Samedan. You are a Manager in a highly demanding environment, far away from any glamorous piloting clichee. (Pardon my bad french . . .). Those sectors can be hell and you will hate the company on day six, trust me it will come.
So back to the topic. NJE is more and more like any other big company in respect of seniority. We have the seniority ranking which taken by itself is useless. You have to combine it with the policy and then find out. Your time to upgrade is not really affected by the seniority list so far. Once the growth comes to an end (maybe soon) then the upgrade process might take somewhat longer. Fleetchanges are a diffrent story, asking solely the list doesnt do you any good.
If you want to work for NJE then some should consider the follwing:
- Size doesnt matter (well, my mistress says different . . .
)- Know the package
- Love the package
- Know the lifestyle
- Love the lifestyle
- Know the flying
- Love the flying
If you did all this and can answer with yes, then Smeagel is the only one who might stop you
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear CL300 and others,
Here is what I wrote in another Netjets post
As I said before the only thing I do is passing on information that I got from a little bird that is reliable because he or she works there and I have seen the numbers that I used with my own eyes. To make it very simple 140 airplanes/1000 pilots= crew ratio of 3.5. My litlle bird flew 1/3 of the hrs it flew last year so 3 possibilities : overcrewed/too many airplanes are no work enough. Of those 140 airplanes about 40 are F2000 or upwards with about 160 crews on them= crew ratio 4. So the first 400 numbers in the seniority list will have a shot at one of these between now and 2016, which leaves the other 600 numbers ( and still hiring beyond)in the cold on a Bravo/H400/XL/XLS/H750/800/4000. If you join now will you remain on these airplanes for 10+ years. I would say the answer is definitrly yes and for sure rather optimistic than worst case as you say Redsbail.
I bet your number lies within the first 400 or maybe even a lot lower. As I already said, I by no means say Netjets is a bad company. I just wanted people having the intention to go there( like I had) having the same information that I got so that they can make a decision based on what they can expect if they join. The choice lies with the individual...For me, as I already said
Have a nice sunday and enjoy whatever you are doing
If Netjets wants to go the way a major airline goes i.e. 20 or more years to the top job than Netjets needs to give the pay and the benefits of a major airline...they DO NOT..... If you want to play in the major ligue act like a major ligue player
CL 300 I bet again in your case you have easy speaking because you are a low number in the list and that the next thing you will be asking for will be a bidding system according to seniority, for the leave requests...I am sure you are that kind of a guy
Believe me when I tell you that the experienced pilots netjets is using in its advertising will from now on remain far away from this company
Again nothing to do with the company being not a good company, it is just that if you decide to join you have to give TOO MUCH and you get TOO LITTLE
Enjoy Netjets and the rest of your life
Here is what I wrote in another Netjets post
As I said before the only thing I do is passing on information that I got from a little bird that is reliable because he or she works there and I have seen the numbers that I used with my own eyes. To make it very simple 140 airplanes/1000 pilots= crew ratio of 3.5. My litlle bird flew 1/3 of the hrs it flew last year so 3 possibilities : overcrewed/too many airplanes are no work enough. Of those 140 airplanes about 40 are F2000 or upwards with about 160 crews on them= crew ratio 4. So the first 400 numbers in the seniority list will have a shot at one of these between now and 2016, which leaves the other 600 numbers ( and still hiring beyond)in the cold on a Bravo/H400/XL/XLS/H750/800/4000. If you join now will you remain on these airplanes for 10+ years. I would say the answer is definitrly yes and for sure rather optimistic than worst case as you say Redsbail.
I bet your number lies within the first 400 or maybe even a lot lower. As I already said, I by no means say Netjets is a bad company. I just wanted people having the intention to go there( like I had) having the same information that I got so that they can make a decision based on what they can expect if they join. The choice lies with the individual...For me, as I already said
Have a nice sunday and enjoy whatever you are doing
If Netjets wants to go the way a major airline goes i.e. 20 or more years to the top job than Netjets needs to give the pay and the benefits of a major airline...they DO NOT..... If you want to play in the major ligue act like a major ligue player
CL 300 I bet again in your case you have easy speaking because you are a low number in the list and that the next thing you will be asking for will be a bidding system according to seniority, for the leave requests...I am sure you are that kind of a guy
Believe me when I tell you that the experienced pilots netjets is using in its advertising will from now on remain far away from this company
Again nothing to do with the company being not a good company, it is just that if you decide to join you have to give TOO MUCH and you get TOO LITTLE
Enjoy Netjets and the rest of your life
Last edited by B-767; 9th Jun 2008 at 18:35.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from LA
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not from the recruitment team nor the marketing or else team; you are correct I have a low seniority number around #100; and I'm on an EASy fleet.when I joined though I had the highest number
However,
Whatever numbers you want to crunch in order to make them good about your goal, whoever birdie is singing, unless he or she is in the top management this is only to be considered as rumour. NOBODY at NJE , on the line has factual evidences of these computations nor they had been published as well anywhere in the company communication.
I'm curious about something, with a company with 200 aircrafts scheduled for 2009 +/- ; how would YOU do crew those ? Everyone Captain on G550 and remote controlling the Bravo's ?
People who joined 5,7,10 years ago or people who decided to join today or will decide to team up tomorrow, about a 1000 persons, and indocs being scheduled on a fast pace, all this is against your signs of decline.
Netjets IS NOT AN AIRLINE; so it cannot behave as one. If you want an Airline (scheduled) than IT IS NOT THE PLACE !
There is room for improvement, but this company is second to none when someone needs attention in the company, personal attention is paramount whatever people are saying; I hope that no one would have to use this extraordinary commitment towards the employees, but when it strikes they call present and help.
You can dump your feelings in your backyard, the truth is that you are not a possible joiner because you do not have this touch, that make this company so special, people like you who are sometimes recruited are leaving soon (churn rate), it is good for the seniority list....But in the top 100 I do not see a lot of move...But I'm only a pilot; I know nothing
However,
Whatever numbers you want to crunch in order to make them good about your goal, whoever birdie is singing, unless he or she is in the top management this is only to be considered as rumour. NOBODY at NJE , on the line has factual evidences of these computations nor they had been published as well anywhere in the company communication.
I'm curious about something, with a company with 200 aircrafts scheduled for 2009 +/- ; how would YOU do crew those ? Everyone Captain on G550 and remote controlling the Bravo's ?
People who joined 5,7,10 years ago or people who decided to join today or will decide to team up tomorrow, about a 1000 persons, and indocs being scheduled on a fast pace, all this is against your signs of decline.
Netjets IS NOT AN AIRLINE; so it cannot behave as one. If you want an Airline (scheduled) than IT IS NOT THE PLACE !
There is room for improvement, but this company is second to none when someone needs attention in the company, personal attention is paramount whatever people are saying; I hope that no one would have to use this extraordinary commitment towards the employees, but when it strikes they call present and help.
You can dump your feelings in your backyard, the truth is that you are not a possible joiner because you do not have this touch, that make this company so special, people like you who are sometimes recruited are leaving soon (churn rate), it is good for the seniority list....But in the top 100 I do not see a lot of move...But I'm only a pilot; I know nothing
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would have to agree that when one has a personal problem or issue which requires help/time off/understanding then NJ is very good about helping out its crews.
Sometimes other general company issues are not always addressed as quickly or as we would like them to be, but we are hoping things are moving in the right direction, all be it a little slowly.
Sometimes other general company issues are not always addressed as quickly or as we would like them to be, but we are hoping things are moving in the right direction, all be it a little slowly.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: near my gateway
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi people,
sorry it took me a while to respond, but I was gone flying...
Okay, here we go:
I certainly DID NOT want to offend anybody by expressing my opinion about the planes, so if anybody feels so: sorry about that.
Also I'm very much aware of the fact that there's more to being a pilot than the flying itself, and that's probably true for most of the airlines/companies out there. Flying by hand etc..., is by the way not my definition of being a pilot, I just like it. However, while being "stuck" in a specific system (with whatever company, not only NJE!), I believe that people are able to both deliver a good and safe performance AND have fun while working hard. It's kind of my motto ...
But I will take up your (southcoast and 4green0red) advices and I'll also try to be more patient next time.Thanks for that.
So gentlemen, take it easy and fly safe
lifter
sorry it took me a while to respond, but I was gone flying...
Okay, here we go:
I certainly DID NOT want to offend anybody by expressing my opinion about the planes, so if anybody feels so: sorry about that.
Also I'm very much aware of the fact that there's more to being a pilot than the flying itself, and that's probably true for most of the airlines/companies out there. Flying by hand etc..., is by the way not my definition of being a pilot, I just like it. However, while being "stuck" in a specific system (with whatever company, not only NJE!), I believe that people are able to both deliver a good and safe performance AND have fun while working hard. It's kind of my motto ...
But I will take up your (southcoast and 4green0red) advices and I'll also try to be more patient next time
.Thanks for that.So gentlemen, take it easy and fly safe
lifter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe & U.S.
Age: 49
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So if I try to join NJE within 2008 (and succesfully pass the selection process) with 4000 hours total time, 1500 Jet PIC, some international experience and more to add, how many chances do I have to be considered for a large cabin airplane?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would say none....
You are probably likely to go to either the Hawker 800/750 or the XL/S or worst case the Bravo or the Hawker 400.
Not being rude or blunt, just how I think it would pan our for you, and I tell you why.
There are no direct entry captains, so you would be going in to all fleets as a fo. FO's going to the large cabin tend to be slightly less experienced, but not always and because of the higher cost in training, they tend, but again not always, to stay on the fleet for 18-24 months before upgrading.
In your case, you meet the hour requirements immediately and therefore will be looking to upgrade asap, hence the mid-sized or small fleets.
You are probably likely to go to either the Hawker 800/750 or the XL/S or worst case the Bravo or the Hawker 400.
Not being rude or blunt, just how I think it would pan our for you, and I tell you why.
There are no direct entry captains, so you would be going in to all fleets as a fo. FO's going to the large cabin tend to be slightly less experienced, but not always and because of the higher cost in training, they tend, but again not always, to stay on the fleet for 18-24 months before upgrading.
In your case, you meet the hour requirements immediately and therefore will be looking to upgrade asap, hence the mid-sized or small fleets.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
south coast
It is not " would be none" but "definately none"
If you have bad luck you will be on the Bravo or the 400 fo the next 10+ years and it could easily take up to 18 months with the new bidding system before you get your command back.... If you have a bit more luck you will end up on a H750/800 or XL/XLS but still for at least the next 10+ years and again this is optimistic.
I wonder why it is so hard to believe what I wrote above, it is simply the thruth and the guys and girls working there know it is...all the rest is simply trying to hide the reality and make things look different and nicer than they are...Again I am not saying that it is a bad company...( I simply do not know, I know people who like it there and I also know a couple of them who are saying they will get out on the first occasion, so a bit like every where else)....but you have the right to know what is waiting for you if you decide to join...personally I am convinced it is not nice at all, and wether you have 15000 hrs or 3000 hrs it is all the same, you will be number 1000+ and therefore having to wait for a very long time for something nice and pls do'nt tell me you prefer a 400 over a G-550/7X...I do'nt think so.....
That is the reason why I said : No, thank you... and I am pretty sure I am not the last one...
Have a nice weekend
It is not " would be none" but "definately none"
If you have bad luck you will be on the Bravo or the 400 fo the next 10+ years and it could easily take up to 18 months with the new bidding system before you get your command back.... If you have a bit more luck you will end up on a H750/800 or XL/XLS but still for at least the next 10+ years and again this is optimistic.
I wonder why it is so hard to believe what I wrote above, it is simply the thruth and the guys and girls working there know it is...all the rest is simply trying to hide the reality and make things look different and nicer than they are...Again I am not saying that it is a bad company...( I simply do not know, I know people who like it there and I also know a couple of them who are saying they will get out on the first occasion, so a bit like every where else)....but you have the right to know what is waiting for you if you decide to join...personally I am convinced it is not nice at all, and wether you have 15000 hrs or 3000 hrs it is all the same, you will be number 1000+ and therefore having to wait for a very long time for something nice and pls do'nt tell me you prefer a 400 over a G-550/7X...I do'nt think so.....
That is the reason why I said : No, thank you... and I am pretty sure I am not the last one...
Have a nice weekend