LEA Mustang Operation
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LEA Mustang Operation
A few questions regarding London Executive Aviation. I saw an advert in Flight recently (ramping up on Citation Bravo and Mustang pilots as the aircraft arrive) and my questions are:
1. How soon before the first Mustang arrives? Where will it be based?
2. How many Mustangs are expected in 2008?
3. How are newhires alloted bases? Do most newhires start at certain bases?
4. Lastly, general impressions of working at LEA? Any positives/negatives?
I hear that Mustang is great fun to fly and it could fill a charter niche on the Continent. Just considering my options. Any insight would be appreciated.
Cheers
1. How soon before the first Mustang arrives? Where will it be based?
2. How many Mustangs are expected in 2008?
3. How are newhires alloted bases? Do most newhires start at certain bases?
4. Lastly, general impressions of working at LEA? Any positives/negatives?
I hear that Mustang is great fun to fly and it could fill a charter niche on the Continent. Just considering my options. Any insight would be appreciated.
Cheers
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: bespin, the cloud city
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just heard the gossip and X-checked with Radio Hangar...
1) Dec 2007, London City (?)
2) Seven-ish
3) Dunno
4) Dunno, working s'where else but reputated amongst 3 best corporate operators in UK
PZ
1) Dec 2007, London City (?)
2) Seven-ish
3) Dunno
4) Dunno, working s'where else but reputated amongst 3 best corporate operators in UK
PZ
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From a handler point of view the pilots seem a contented and well motivated bunch which has always pointed to a well run organisation
They do a lot of operations from Luton, Stansted, Farnborough as well as London City.
They are certainly early in on the delivery programme on the Citation Mustang and this will fill an interesting void in the European market for 'entry level' jets operating for charter which I am sure they will make the most of.
They do a lot of operations from Luton, Stansted, Farnborough as well as London City.
They are certainly early in on the delivery programme on the Citation Mustang and this will fill an interesting void in the European market for 'entry level' jets operating for charter which I am sure they will make the most of.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With MTOW of 8600 lbs I can't see these VLJs being of much use on public transport operations. I flew a 'light jet' with a MTOW of 12,500lbs and we had to stop to refuel coming back to the UK from Southern France with a 100 knot headwind, 4 male adults and bags.
I think the range and payload of these things is going to be very limiting and the customer will want something more robust and beefy.
They are basically designed to fly executives around before and after a game of golf. The systems are very basic and redundancy is virtually nil.
TJ
I think the range and payload of these things is going to be very limiting and the customer will want something more robust and beefy.
They are basically designed to fly executives around before and after a game of golf. The systems are very basic and redundancy is virtually nil.
TJ
Guest
Posts: n/a
Mustang Sally .....
1, All the aircraft apart from CL300 operate in and out of LCY but none are officially based there. I imagine the first will be at STN / FAB and LTN
2, Beleive there are 7 Mustangs owned by LEA, 1st coming early next year, and three others to be managed by the company ! certainly a big expansion with 10 new a/c.
3, All crews based at STN on paper, this is apparently likely to change for Legacy and Challenger crews. Mostly crews will be looked at with experience for the Mustangs, I hear all the the first courses will be from within for quick(er) commands and experience on Citations. Then various newby's (experienced/instructors etc) will fill the gaps. I guess at 1.5/2 crews per aircraft.
4, Good company to work for. Company management have there heads screwed on and seem to operate a fairly well oiled machine. Like all companies people have gripes and certain things / departments need to improve. Pilots are looked after from within and outsiders are welcomed with experience or grow through the ranks with no experience. I would def class within the top three charter companies in the UK with TAG & Gama.
With a rather large expansion over the next two years with the Mustangs and some large aircraft the company is likely to grow fairly quickly and this will hopefully improve other T&C's for the crews. Biggest lack being loss of licence and healthcare etc missing. Pension aswell but most companies offer a pretty poor one these days ?! LEA has been growing at a steady rate over the last ten years and I beleive they will continue to do so.
As for the market niche ... who knows ? I think there is plenty of room for these 'entry' level aircraft to fit into the market, and quite clearly so do all the manufacturers (Cessna, Eclipse, Embraer to name a few). I hear through the grapevine that LEA have sold one of the CII's and the others should be phased out over the next yr/two. Many charters in CJ's / Bravo's etc have 1/2 pax on relatively short sectors. It won't be good for 4 pax to Milan or Nice although I don't know the specs & range. However in time these might be more like NJ aircraft and left down route ?
Life's a Beach
2, Beleive there are 7 Mustangs owned by LEA, 1st coming early next year, and three others to be managed by the company ! certainly a big expansion with 10 new a/c.
3, All crews based at STN on paper, this is apparently likely to change for Legacy and Challenger crews. Mostly crews will be looked at with experience for the Mustangs, I hear all the the first courses will be from within for quick(er) commands and experience on Citations. Then various newby's (experienced/instructors etc) will fill the gaps. I guess at 1.5/2 crews per aircraft.
4, Good company to work for. Company management have there heads screwed on and seem to operate a fairly well oiled machine. Like all companies people have gripes and certain things / departments need to improve. Pilots are looked after from within and outsiders are welcomed with experience or grow through the ranks with no experience. I would def class within the top three charter companies in the UK with TAG & Gama.
With a rather large expansion over the next two years with the Mustangs and some large aircraft the company is likely to grow fairly quickly and this will hopefully improve other T&C's for the crews. Biggest lack being loss of licence and healthcare etc missing. Pension aswell but most companies offer a pretty poor one these days ?! LEA has been growing at a steady rate over the last ten years and I beleive they will continue to do so.
As for the market niche ... who knows ? I think there is plenty of room for these 'entry' level aircraft to fit into the market, and quite clearly so do all the manufacturers (Cessna, Eclipse, Embraer to name a few). I hear through the grapevine that LEA have sold one of the CII's and the others should be phased out over the next yr/two. Many charters in CJ's / Bravo's etc have 1/2 pax on relatively short sectors. It won't be good for 4 pax to Milan or Nice although I don't know the specs & range. However in time these might be more like NJ aircraft and left down route ?
Life's a Beach
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Asia
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Riker, Turbo J (and others!!)
1. First Mustang now due January 2008. To be based at Farnborough.
The rest will be based at Biggin, Stansted and Luton.
2. Total of ten Mustangs due, but Cessna keep putting back the delivery dates......
I'm not sure, but I would expect probably five by the end of 2008.
3. All LEA crew are currently officially based at Stansted, but this is under review.
4. Good, stable company, knowledgeable management, good financial background. Decent profit margins. (Quite a few GA operators actually run at a loss.....) Good senior management team, headed up by an excellent Chief Pilot.
The Citation Mustang is not actually termed a VLJ, but an 'entry level jet' by Cessna.....
Turbo J:
'systems very basic'......Hello? Have you seen the Garmin 1000 avionics system? Better equipped than most airliners!!!
1. First Mustang now due January 2008. To be based at Farnborough.
The rest will be based at Biggin, Stansted and Luton.
2. Total of ten Mustangs due, but Cessna keep putting back the delivery dates......
I'm not sure, but I would expect probably five by the end of 2008.3. All LEA crew are currently officially based at Stansted, but this is under review.
4. Good, stable company, knowledgeable management, good financial background. Decent profit margins. (Quite a few GA operators actually run at a loss.....) Good senior management team, headed up by an excellent Chief Pilot.
The Citation Mustang is not actually termed a VLJ, but an 'entry level jet' by Cessna.....
Turbo J:
'systems very basic'......Hello? Have you seen the Garmin 1000 avionics system? Better equipped than most airliners!!!
Last edited by Arkwright; 30th Oct 2007 at 23:03. Reason: clarity
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Stansted
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If some of the Mustangs are going to be managed will LEA be operating them single crew on the private flights? Might actually make the aircraft semi useful with the amount of fuel you can carry!! Get the feeling that the loadsheets will be a fun and challenging task on an AOC flight!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Arwright
Cessna would call it an entry level jet but what else would you call a jet that weights 8600lbs other than very light?
- Yes - systems very basic - what redundancy does it have? From my experience, probably very little.
OK, so its got an all singing, all dancing Garmin 1000, but what happens when the power source supplying the screens goes off? Then what? 20 minutes of battery power to get you on the deck from FL410 in bad weather using standby instruments? Mmm.......
These machines are built for the business person who flys from Georgia to Florida in the morning to play golf and then back again for dinner. In my experience, for what its worth, they are not designed to be flying 70hrs+ a month in commercial service, but I wish LEA all the best with them........
Cessna would call it an entry level jet but what else would you call a jet that weights 8600lbs other than very light?
- Yes - systems very basic - what redundancy does it have? From my experience, probably very little.
OK, so its got an all singing, all dancing Garmin 1000, but what happens when the power source supplying the screens goes off? Then what? 20 minutes of battery power to get you on the deck from FL410 in bad weather using standby instruments? Mmm.......
These machines are built for the business person who flys from Georgia to Florida in the morning to play golf and then back again for dinner. In my experience, for what its worth, they are not designed to be flying 70hrs+ a month in commercial service, but I wish LEA all the best with them........
Guest
Posts: n/a
No different to Citations I suppose, designed for a maximum of 100 hours a year yet pressed into service for far more than that.
The irony is that as 'small' aircraft they'll more likely be flown by relatively inexperienced pilots yet it's experience that will be needed to keep up in single pilot ops, more so when/if the screens go blank.
Have fun boys and girls
The irony is that as 'small' aircraft they'll more likely be flown by relatively inexperienced pilots yet it's experience that will be needed to keep up in single pilot ops, more so when/if the screens go blank.
Have fun boys and girls
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would guess LEA will operate the Mustang two crew, preferably both type rated.
BUT the Mustang weighs less than the JAR 25 minima (5700kgs) so no unfreezing of one's frozen ATPL on this baby! I presume it will be treated just like the C525 series. Whereby, if the company AOC requires two type rated crew, multi crew time can be logged but an ATPL LST would still have to be done on a JAR 25 airplane! How silly is that!!
Sometimes I wish we could go back to the UK/CAA licences which were more akin to the FAA system.
BUT the Mustang weighs less than the JAR 25 minima (5700kgs) so no unfreezing of one's frozen ATPL on this baby! I presume it will be treated just like the C525 series. Whereby, if the company AOC requires two type rated crew, multi crew time can be logged but an ATPL LST would still have to be done on a JAR 25 airplane! How silly is that!!
Sometimes I wish we could go back to the UK/CAA licences which were more akin to the FAA system.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Stansted
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone know the BEM and Max fuel for the aircraft? Sounding more and more like this aircraft is going to have some serious charter issues! Seems def produced for the private owner pilot
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Stansted
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
According to cessna the full fuel payload with 2 pilots is 400lbs! Assuming standard weights that is not even 2 men with hand baggage let alone a set of golf clubs! I guess all will come clear!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dorset
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ref post 14.
Take off weight 8,645 lb.
Total usable fuel 2,568 lb
( TCDS A0014W1 Rev 2.)
Typical basic weight inc undrainable fuel 5304 lbs ( in service a/c)
plus two pilots, your figure is about right.
Best regards,
om15
Take off weight 8,645 lb.
Total usable fuel 2,568 lb
( TCDS A0014W1 Rev 2.)
Typical basic weight inc undrainable fuel 5304 lbs ( in service a/c)
plus two pilots, your figure is about right.
Best regards,
om15
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: warwickshire
Age: 57
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
verticalmach
Flinstone, you posted yesterday that this aircraft will probably be crewed by inexperienced pilots on an aircraft that requires the opposite.
You are 100% corect buddy.
I hope the crews going on this aeroplane are doing it with one eye on their lcences and the other eye on there professional common sense.
I hope when the crews get on line that they start to store, on a relatives or freinds computer, all e-mails pertaining to ALL requests and directives. Be those from ops or pax. The pressure to perform will be huge. All this on an aircraft that has not been tested on our market. At least e-mails have the senders name attached and generally the person who sent them had to access things with a password. I think this kind of thing is a good insurance policy against the temptation of being asked/told to do some thing of a questionable nature.
All you GA dogs out there know what I'm talking about.
Happy N safe flying
You are 100% corect buddy.
I hope the crews going on this aeroplane are doing it with one eye on their lcences and the other eye on there professional common sense.
I hope when the crews get on line that they start to store, on a relatives or freinds computer, all e-mails pertaining to ALL requests and directives. Be those from ops or pax. The pressure to perform will be huge. All this on an aircraft that has not been tested on our market. At least e-mails have the senders name attached and generally the person who sent them had to access things with a password. I think this kind of thing is a good insurance policy against the temptation of being asked/told to do some thing of a questionable nature.
All you GA dogs out there know what I'm talking about.
Happy N safe flying
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Stansted
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dont know much about LEA so wouldnt be fair to comment there! My guestimates were based on reduced Citation CJ current salaries where a qualified F/O is on about £25-28k and a Captain is getting £45-55k as a fixed salary. Am I right in thinking LEA work on a lowish basic salary but then flight pay to boost the salary?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Certainly looks like a nice, automated flightdeck. Should make your job a lot easier:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...RFP&photo_nr=3
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...RFP&photo_nr=3