Netjets FA Abonndoned In Moscow
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Netjets FA Abonndoned In Moscow
Tell me is this good CRM?
I here that one of our FA arrive on a NJ aircraft in Moscow. It seems that she did not have a visa so can not leave the terminal. Imigration tells her she can not go to the hotel and must stay all night in the terminal. The pilots? They leave her alone and go off to they nice warm beds.
Is this good CRM? Leave a young woman alone in a place like taht all night? What kind of pilot would do this?
My own colleagues make me feel shame.
I here that one of our FA arrive on a NJ aircraft in Moscow. It seems that she did not have a visa so can not leave the terminal. Imigration tells her she can not go to the hotel and must stay all night in the terminal. The pilots? They leave her alone and go off to they nice warm beds.
Is this good CRM? Leave a young woman alone in a place like taht all night? What kind of pilot would do this?
My own colleagues make me feel shame.
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What were your crewing department doing allocating a FA to a flight without the appropriate visa, or ensuring this FA had one?
Poor support from the flight crew, she shouldn't have been abandoned. However - she shouldn't even have been there and the situation shouldn't have arisen.
Poor support from the flight crew, she shouldn't have been abandoned. However - she shouldn't even have been there and the situation shouldn't have arisen.
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Well it might not be very gentlemanly to leave her there, but what would the (accident) report say if one or both pilots spends all night in a presumably not-very-comfortable terminal, only to make a fatigue induced mistake the next day .... they owe a duty of care to the next day's pax (which includes the FA) as well as to her right now.
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I have waited on board the plane at Moscow for 4 hours because the FA forgot to inform the Planning Dept. that she did not have a visa.
Most of the time we have some notice that we are going to Moscow, unless diverted in flight, which I cannot think is often, so if the company were informed before the flight to Moscow, they could have pre-arranged for a visa to be ready on arrival.
It is a tough one, but like the above poster said, if you have a minimum rest for an early show the next day with pax, you need your rest.
However, surely something could have been organised so that the FA didnt have to stay at the airport alone.
One definately needs their wits about them while in Moscow airspace.
Most of the time we have some notice that we are going to Moscow, unless diverted in flight, which I cannot think is often, so if the company were informed before the flight to Moscow, they could have pre-arranged for a visa to be ready on arrival.
It is a tough one, but like the above poster said, if you have a minimum rest for an early show the next day with pax, you need your rest.
However, surely something could have been organised so that the FA didnt have to stay at the airport alone.
One definately needs their wits about them while in Moscow airspace.
Last edited by south coast; 2nd May 2007 at 00:00.
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Netjets F/A abandoned in Moscow
This happened some years ago in Jeddah. Fresh Cabin Attendant, as a result of a JABJ Dispatch screw-up, was sent to JED on a sister-ship to that which she was assigned. The captain and F/O of that aircraft abandoned her to the authorities because, allegedly, her papers were not in order, whereupon she spent a very tearful night at the immigration detention centre, along with a bunch of unhappy would-be nannies/servants.
I was appalled at my colleagues' actions. They abandoned her and went to their hotel!
Command does not cease on landing!
Tempilot.
I was appalled at my colleagues' actions. They abandoned her and went to their hotel!
Command does not cease on landing!
Tempilot.
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Now, what good does it do for the poor FA if the pilots also stay on a couch at airport? I don't think it helps her/him at all. Better to think about the overall picture and have a good rest. Safety first. Good decision by the captain.
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Hmmm, landed in Domodedovo once and Pax had no Visa, had to stay in the GAT on a couch with a blanket from the airplane.
Just wondering what the guy would have thought if I´d offered to stay with him :-)
Do you know wether the F/A asked the pilots to stay? If not, why should they?
Do have no real sleep, no breakfast, no nuthin? I surely would not expect (or ask) any of my crew to stay if my visa would not work... H.Finn got it right.
Just wondering what the guy would have thought if I´d offered to stay with him :-)
Do you know wether the F/A asked the pilots to stay? If not, why should they?
Do have no real sleep, no breakfast, no nuthin? I surely would not expect (or ask) any of my crew to stay if my visa would not work... H.Finn got it right.
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If that poor F/A was your wife or partner, would you still go to the hotel?
She is probably the wife or partner of someone.
If your wife or partner was employed by this company wouldn't you want her to be "protected" a little better than in this case, or would you abandon her in the interests of "safety"?
If the PIC in question was working for me I would have had him fired on the spot.
She is probably the wife or partner of someone.
If your wife or partner was employed by this company wouldn't you want her to be "protected" a little better than in this case, or would you abandon her in the interests of "safety"?
If the PIC in question was working for me I would have had him fired on the spot.
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 1st May 2007 at 10:43.
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Now, what good does it do for the poor FA if the pilots also stay on a couch at airport? I don't think it helps her/him at all. Better to think about the overall picture and have a good rest. Safety first. Good decision by the captain.
Today 02:36
Hope I never fly with you!!!! H.Finn............. Thanks Barista!!!!! Template Who need Pilots like H. Finn..............
Obviously not a teamplayer!!!! Maybe he prefers the males!!!! ooooppps
Today 02:36
Hope I never fly with you!!!! H.Finn............. Thanks Barista!!!!! Template Who need Pilots like H. Finn..............
Obviously not a teamplayer!!!! Maybe he prefers the males!!!! ooooppps
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No I don't prefer the males. Would someone please tell me what exactly should she/he be "protected" from? It is probably safer at the airport than in a hotel in Moscow anyway.
Again, I would personally prefer to fly with a crew of two well rested pilots and a knackered FA, than a crew of three knackered persons. And yes, my wife is a grown up person who can take care of herself for one night. She would never consider asking me to stay with her in a situation like this.
We are talking about an FA staying in a terminal of an international airport, not a jail full of perverts...
Again, I would personally prefer to fly with a crew of two well rested pilots and a knackered FA, than a crew of three knackered persons. And yes, my wife is a grown up person who can take care of herself for one night. She would never consider asking me to stay with her in a situation like this.
We are talking about an FA staying in a terminal of an international airport, not a jail full of perverts...
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If you had been to some airports in Africa for example, you would quickly change you view on this one let me assure you. Yes I have been to Mocow also.
jettgoddess I am well aware the appearance of some cabin crew can be frightening experience to many, however this does not alleviate the risk to a young women left on her own in a situation such as this.
Reminds me a little bit of the "Captain" of a cruise ship that was sinking near South Africa a few years ago. He elected to be on the 1st rescue helicopter off the ship, as in his words "...would be needed on dry land to co ordinate the rescue operation"!
jettgoddess I am well aware the appearance of some cabin crew can be frightening experience to many, however this does not alleviate the risk to a young women left on her own in a situation such as this.
Reminds me a little bit of the "Captain" of a cruise ship that was sinking near South Africa a few years ago. He elected to be on the 1st rescue helicopter off the ship, as in his words "...would be needed on dry land to co ordinate the rescue operation"!
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 1st May 2007 at 16:11.
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I have been to several airports in Africa. However, never in Moscow, Africa.
Seriously, yes I agree, and I do understand exactly what you mean. But I have also been to all three airports in Moscow, and can't see a problem there. I believe that also the handling agents at any of the Moscow airports can provide some sort of security and support for the night.
It is quite easy to get a visa at a few hours notice in Moscow, just provide passport details in advance to the handler and the visa will be waiting for you on arrival. Obviously this was not done in this case and the arrival was after the closure of the visa office. Piss-poor planning by NetJets, but that is nothing new, I guess?
Seriously, yes I agree, and I do understand exactly what you mean. But I have also been to all three airports in Moscow, and can't see a problem there. I believe that also the handling agents at any of the Moscow airports can provide some sort of security and support for the night.
It is quite easy to get a visa at a few hours notice in Moscow, just provide passport details in advance to the handler and the visa will be waiting for you on arrival. Obviously this was not done in this case and the arrival was after the closure of the visa office. Piss-poor planning by NetJets, but that is nothing new, I guess?
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Anyone who think that Moscow airport is a safe place is crazy. For a young woman alone too? Madness!! Would you want your girlfrien or wife, sister, daughter left like this? Moscow is a major crime city for God sake!
Yes, bad planning by the company. Dont blame the FA as crew are sent to the these places all the time without visa. The company is ment to get on the spot visa for them. Again our wonderful company drop the ball. A better example was set by other captains before. One told the company to file a plan somewhere else they could all sleep somewhere safe and flew his crew away. The other decided that the whole crew could sleep on the aircraft. Why not this time? We are talking about a luxury aircraft that is good enough for the rich to sleep on so why not.
I know first officers and FA who would call in sick before they fly with him. I hope I never have to work with him. To the FA I can only say sorry on behalf of your coleagues. None of us are happy with this.
Yes, bad planning by the company. Dont blame the FA as crew are sent to the these places all the time without visa. The company is ment to get on the spot visa for them. Again our wonderful company drop the ball. A better example was set by other captains before. One told the company to file a plan somewhere else they could all sleep somewhere safe and flew his crew away. The other decided that the whole crew could sleep on the aircraft. Why not this time? We are talking about a luxury aircraft that is good enough for the rich to sleep on so why not.
I know first officers and FA who would call in sick before they fly with him. I hope I never have to work with him. To the FA I can only say sorry on behalf of your coleagues. None of us are happy with this.
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I´m based in Nokovo, until this week I did not a permanent visa to get into russia so I had to wait everyday a couple of hours to get the visa, but not big deal, things in russia take russian time, but for one day you can get a visa with no problem. At Nukovo there is no crew rooms, you have to stay at the aircraft until you get your visa
Now, the questions is how a big company as netjets can not handdle an easy issue as this one, no idea. Captain should have stayed with the crew until all the crew is released, captain work finish when all work is funished. Now is spring, what about winter -20º on the aircraft, who is going to take of the APU because you need one, they don´t let you to go into the terminal.
Bad crew department, these issues need to be programmed in advance
Now, the questions is how a big company as netjets can not handdle an easy issue as this one, no idea. Captain should have stayed with the crew until all the crew is released, captain work finish when all work is funished. Now is spring, what about winter -20º on the aircraft, who is going to take of the APU because you need one, they don´t let you to go into the terminal.
Bad crew department, these issues need to be programmed in advance
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Hey guys,
I don't think that this matter should be discussed in a public forum. Don't get me wrong, it should be discussed, just not in here. Maybe **************** would be a better place, so that it stays within NJE...
Just my 50 cents.
Cheers!
I don't think that this matter should be discussed in a public forum. Don't get me wrong, it should be discussed, just not in here. Maybe **************** would be a better place, so that it stays within NJE...
Just my 50 cents.
Cheers!
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There is nothing in my contract that prohibits me discussing Netjets Transportes Aereos, the Portuguese fractional company, in a public forum. A few points: you don't just file a flight plan and fly away from Moscow to the nearest civilised place, which btw is Helsinki, about two block hours away. You need to get a permission to do that, and obviously this crew had arrived outside the working hours of the visa office, which means that they were there also outside the office hours of the permit issuers.
Possibly they also were out of duty hours, certainly the pilots would have been in the morning had they stayed at the airport holding the hand of the maiden in distress. Possibly had a flight to do in the morning, this was the only way to get the job done.
Moscow is a major crime city, so is London or Paris. But the transit area of any Moscow airport is not a major crime area. Not comfortable, but with some assistance from the handler should be relatively safe and quiet.
Possibly they also were out of duty hours, certainly the pilots would have been in the morning had they stayed at the airport holding the hand of the maiden in distress. Possibly had a flight to do in the morning, this was the only way to get the job done.
Moscow is a major crime city, so is London or Paris. But the transit area of any Moscow airport is not a major crime area. Not comfortable, but with some assistance from the handler should be relatively safe and quiet.
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If you go to UUEE/Sheremetyevo in that case it is sometimes possible to overnight at the Novotel without a visa,because the Hotel is directly at the airport.It all depends on the lenght of stay.
Otherwise VISA on arival could be arranged prior to arrival.
Rusaero does a good job with that.
Bst rgrds
Otherwise VISA on arival could be arranged prior to arrival.
Rusaero does a good job with that.
Bst rgrds