CJ2 / CJ2+
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: uk
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My company is operating a CJ2, we are getting a CJ1, A CJ2+ and a CJ3.
They are great machine for short distance and unexpensive to operate.
I really enjoy flying them, specialy with the proline 21 in the cockpit.
cruise is about mach 0.70.
Clients are very happy about it as well.
They are great machine for short distance and unexpensive to operate.
I really enjoy flying them, specialy with the proline 21 in the cockpit.
cruise is about mach 0.70.
Clients are very happy about it as well.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: EGGD KFXE EGBJ
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Performance
Just as a matter of interest what is the shortest runway you would consider useable for the CJ and CJ2 with a typical 2 pax load at say 25C to fly to the south of france
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Commercial or Private ? Wet or dry ? Alternate how far ? Landing field elevation ?
What aircraft empty weight ?
Example of an CJ2 that I flew:
BOW= 7852lbs (a light example, not many options installed)
LDM 9200 lbs
2 male pax @ 200lbs plus 40 lbs baggage
850 lbs total fuel reserves
landing at Cannes (elev 13 ft)
25 °
No wind
LDR pivate, dry = 2625ft
LDR comm, dry = 4384ft
multiply by 1,15 for wet.
Numbers for a CJ1:
BOW= 7116lbs
LDM 8500 lbs
2 male pax @ 200lbs plus 40 lbs baggage
850 lbs total fuel reserves
landing at Cannes (elev 13 ft)
25 °
No wind
LDR pivate, dry = 2579ft
LDR comm, dry = 4306ft
multiply by 1,15 for wet.
What aircraft empty weight ?
Example of an CJ2 that I flew:
BOW= 7852lbs (a light example, not many options installed)
LDM 9200 lbs
2 male pax @ 200lbs plus 40 lbs baggage
850 lbs total fuel reserves
landing at Cannes (elev 13 ft)
25 °
No wind
LDR pivate, dry = 2625ft
LDR comm, dry = 4384ft
multiply by 1,15 for wet.
Numbers for a CJ1:
BOW= 7116lbs
LDM 8500 lbs
2 male pax @ 200lbs plus 40 lbs baggage
850 lbs total fuel reserves
landing at Cannes (elev 13 ft)
25 °
No wind
LDR pivate, dry = 2579ft
LDR comm, dry = 4306ft
multiply by 1,15 for wet.
Last edited by His dudeness; 3rd Aug 2006 at 08:29.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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We are going often to La mole with the cj2, but on commercial operation only one runway can be used, so the wind may become a major limiting factor.
There is no reverse on the CJ, just a mickey mouse thrust atenuator that reduce thrust by 50% (not present on the CJ1+ and 2+).
There is no reverse on the CJ, just a mickey mouse thrust atenuator that reduce thrust by 50% (not present on the CJ1+ and 2+).
Join Date: Mar 2004
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based on the mentioned LIGHT CJ2 you could haul 6 male pax (@212lbs each) plus 70 lbs of Baggage from La Mole to Manchester with 160 lbs of extra fuel at 22° C T/O temperature and 0 wind.
Same flight with 2 male pax & 50 lbs of bags you could leave at 40°C with 360lbs of extra fuel.
Limited on Landing when operating commercially.
Limited on takeoff when private - takeoff data are only longest of 3
- TODR all engine to 50 ft x 1,15
- acc.-go
- acc-stop
Takeoffrun distances are NOT available.
But the CJ2 is the best Cessna I flew until now. A pleasure to fly, huge baggage hold, very, very quiet inside (Cockpit is the noisiest place), nice Galley, looks good, performs well, very good avionic (Proline 21 - you gotta love it) and last but most important: it heats in winter and the aircondition actually works ! Goodbye to permafrost-clothing during fall, winter and early spring !
Can´t comment on the +, but rekon it will be even better.
(Cessna types flown:C525, C525A, C551,550,S550,Bravo, 560,Ultra, Encore, 650-III and 650-VII)
Same flight with 2 male pax & 50 lbs of bags you could leave at 40°C with 360lbs of extra fuel.
Limited on Landing when operating commercially.
Limited on takeoff when private - takeoff data are only longest of 3
- TODR all engine to 50 ft x 1,15
- acc.-go
- acc-stop
Takeoffrun distances are NOT available.
But the CJ2 is the best Cessna I flew until now. A pleasure to fly, huge baggage hold, very, very quiet inside (Cockpit is the noisiest place), nice Galley, looks good, performs well, very good avionic (Proline 21 - you gotta love it) and last but most important: it heats in winter and the aircondition actually works ! Goodbye to permafrost-clothing during fall, winter and early spring !
Can´t comment on the +, but rekon it will be even better.
(Cessna types flown:C525, C525A, C551,550,S550,Bravo, 560,Ultra, Encore, 650-III and 650-VII)
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What is the performance difference and cost difference between the CJ2+ and the CJ3? Is there a big enough performance difference to justify the extra cost between the two?
Are they not both using the same Pro Line 21 system as well? Any differences up front?
Are they not both using the same Pro Line 21 system as well? Any differences up front?
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Question Off Topic :
JAA says that the C525 is a Single pilot certified aircraft. But if the company flies it with 2 pilots can you log this time as Multi Pilot Aircraft??
JAA says that the C525 is a Single pilot certified aircraft. But if the company flies it with 2 pilots can you log this time as Multi Pilot Aircraft??
Join Date: Jun 2005
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No, you can't
Originally Posted by first_solo
Question Off Topic :
JAA says that the C525 is a Single pilot certified aircraft. But if the company flies it with 2 pilots can you log this time as Multi Pilot Aircraft??
JAA says that the C525 is a Single pilot certified aircraft. But if the company flies it with 2 pilots can you log this time as Multi Pilot Aircraft??
I've got the same problem
(500 h MCC for ATPL)Yogi
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Yes you can
If the c 525 is flown privatly only the pf can log, if the aircraft is register commercial, You can log crew as long it is specifie in your company aoc and om.a. But thoses hours cannot be used to get you ATP.
This is not true for the CJ3 (over 5700 kgs).
This is not true for the CJ3 (over 5700 kgs).
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The "CJ multi-crew ops" question of collecting an ATPL has come up so often that it is actually one of the small number of FAQ's directly addressed on the UK CAA web site, and is also covered in the LASORS publication. It's also come up several times before here on PPRuNe. Nevertheless, repetition is the very soul of the Internet, so, once more with feeling:
The correct answer is that to get a JAR ATPL you need, amongst other things, "500 hours Multi-Pilot operations on aeroplanes type certificated in accordance with the JAR/FAR-25 Transport Category or the JAR/FAR-23 Commuter Category or equivalent code, or single-pilot aeroplanes operated by 2-pilots according to operational requirements.", and you need to pass a check ride in which "The applicant shall demonstrate the ability to perform as Pilot-in-Command of an aeroplane type certificated for a minimum of two pilots under IFR, the procedures and manoeuvres required with a degree of competency appropriate to the privileges granted to the holder of an ATPL(A)".
Both quotes directly from the UK CAA.
So, if you are flying on a CJ family aircraft (or another single-pilot aircraft, like a Premier 1), but are operating it for public transport under JAR-OPS1 which REQUIRES you to operate multi-crew, then the time you were REQUIRED to operate multi-crew counts towards the 500 hours, and satisfies the FIRST requirement listed above. Note that the official interpretation is that "elective" two crew operations don't count, so if you are a pilot's assistant on a private single-crew operation, that doesn't count.
To tick off the SECOND requirement listed above, you need to pass a check-ride in a MULTIPILOT aircraft, and the CJ family does NOT count (including the CJ3 - it is nothing to do with weight). You therefore would need a second type rating in an aircraft that can only be flown multi-crew.
But, since you can count your CJ multi-crew time, it would be considered quite normal for a CJ rated pilot with more than 500 hours multi-crew on the CJ and a frozen ATPL to automatically collect their JAR ATPL as soon as they add a type rating for a multi-pilot aircraft.
The correct answer is that to get a JAR ATPL you need, amongst other things, "500 hours Multi-Pilot operations on aeroplanes type certificated in accordance with the JAR/FAR-25 Transport Category or the JAR/FAR-23 Commuter Category or equivalent code, or single-pilot aeroplanes operated by 2-pilots according to operational requirements.", and you need to pass a check ride in which "The applicant shall demonstrate the ability to perform as Pilot-in-Command of an aeroplane type certificated for a minimum of two pilots under IFR, the procedures and manoeuvres required with a degree of competency appropriate to the privileges granted to the holder of an ATPL(A)".
Both quotes directly from the UK CAA.
So, if you are flying on a CJ family aircraft (or another single-pilot aircraft, like a Premier 1), but are operating it for public transport under JAR-OPS1 which REQUIRES you to operate multi-crew, then the time you were REQUIRED to operate multi-crew counts towards the 500 hours, and satisfies the FIRST requirement listed above. Note that the official interpretation is that "elective" two crew operations don't count, so if you are a pilot's assistant on a private single-crew operation, that doesn't count.
To tick off the SECOND requirement listed above, you need to pass a check-ride in a MULTIPILOT aircraft, and the CJ family does NOT count (including the CJ3 - it is nothing to do with weight). You therefore would need a second type rating in an aircraft that can only be flown multi-crew.
But, since you can count your CJ multi-crew time, it would be considered quite normal for a CJ rated pilot with more than 500 hours multi-crew on the CJ and a frozen ATPL to automatically collect their JAR ATPL as soon as they add a type rating for a multi-pilot aircraft.
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There seems to be ongoing confusion over SP operations in Cessna Citations. The CJ series, CJ-1, CJ-1+, CJ-2, CJ-2+,CJ-3 can all be flown single pilot. They are FAR23 certified aircraft, built to FAR 25 standards. As such they can be flown Single Pilot on Private and Commercial operations. They max takeoff weight of the aircraft has no influence on the SP certification
The C-500, C550/C560 (Citation II, S550, Bravo, V, Ultra and Encore) are Part 25 certified aircraft and require two pilots. However you can obtain a SP waiver after completing a checkride in accordance with FAA waiver 4050. Such operations are limited to Private flights because they are Part 25 aircraft.
C-501 and C-551 were factory certified Single Pilot versions of the Citation I and II and as such can be flown commercially by one pilot.
Different countries may impose higher requirements, and not accept the FAA certifications. If your aircraft is certified single pilot but you fly it commercially with two pilots then both pilots can log the time (Command - Co-Pilot) if you have appropiate two crew training and procedures in your company operations manual.
As far as the CJ series in concerned I believe that something like 70% of the aircraft are owner flown. I recently attended Flight Safety for C-208 Caravan training and there was quite a few people in for SP two year recency, especially for the Ultra and the Encore.
The C-500, C550/C560 (Citation II, S550, Bravo, V, Ultra and Encore) are Part 25 certified aircraft and require two pilots. However you can obtain a SP waiver after completing a checkride in accordance with FAA waiver 4050. Such operations are limited to Private flights because they are Part 25 aircraft.
C-501 and C-551 were factory certified Single Pilot versions of the Citation I and II and as such can be flown commercially by one pilot.
Different countries may impose higher requirements, and not accept the FAA certifications. If your aircraft is certified single pilot but you fly it commercially with two pilots then both pilots can log the time (Command - Co-Pilot) if you have appropiate two crew training and procedures in your company operations manual.
As far as the CJ series in concerned I believe that something like 70% of the aircraft are owner flown. I recently attended Flight Safety for C-208 Caravan training and there was quite a few people in for SP two year recency, especially for the Ultra and the Encore.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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also valid point on VLJ
I have been looking at the situation re PT AOC on VLJ, and am forced into the same conclusion, that all ops must be two crew by Jar Ops 1 this is two rated crew and not a pilots assistant.
Thus the pilots assistant route for gaining hours is not a productive one.
Bumz
Thus the pilots assistant route for gaining hours is not a productive one.
Bumz
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the toilet facing (L/H side of A/C) the emer exit is the belted one. is or at least used to be an option. the standard toilet is on the R/H side, without a belt.
Then you can choose from either the standard (basically a bucket) and the flushing toilet (like a campapotti, just with a electric pump)
Divided by a curtain, not a door from the cabin (cause of the emer exit)
Then you can choose from either the standard (basically a bucket) and the flushing toilet (like a campapotti, just with a electric pump)
Divided by a curtain, not a door from the cabin (cause of the emer exit)
