MAF Requirements
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Apologies for the double posting but I somehow missed this on the first reading.
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Originally Posted by matt22scotland
pay for me is low on the list.
matt, pay may be low on your list but as a professional pilot it's certainly not low on mine or, I would guess, that of most of the professional pilots you will meet if you ever join the ranks.
Should that happen I would be very careful who you tell (should you ever do so) that you flew for little or nothing. It tends to upset people.
Give it some thought.
well some of us here need aviation employment experiance and hours to get thoose well paid jobs!
you cant get experiance and mega bucks at the same time .!
if you can then let me know where?
use the nogging you of all people should understand that at least
Apologies for the double posting but I somehow missed this on the first reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt22scotland
pay for me is low on the list.
matt, pay may be low on your list but as a professional pilot it's certainly not low on mine or, I would guess, that of most of the professional pilots you will meet if you ever join the ranks.
Should that happen I would be very careful who you tell (should you ever do so) that you flew for little or nothing. It tends to upset people.
Give it some thought.
well some of us here need aviation employment experiance and hours to get thoose well paid jobs!
you cant get experiance and mega bucks at the same time .!
if you can then let me know where?
use the nogging you of all people should understand that at least
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Matt, MAF is a mission organisation first and a flying organisation second. This should be taken into account by those attempting entry, they are looking for mission minded pilots, not career pilots. I know some proffessionals have issue with this, but MAF have a long history in pioneer flying and have earned the respect of many.
Flying pay outside of MAF is another matter entirely, and a few operating outside the law can cruel the whole industry. Aim to get a job because you are good at it, not because you are cheaper.
Flying pay outside of MAF is another matter entirely, and a few operating outside the law can cruel the whole industry. Aim to get a job because you are good at it, not because you are cheaper.
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What he ^^^^^said.
Don't think I've forgotten what it's like but if you start giving yourself away now you'll be worth less when you get further up the ladder.
Then you'll have those embarrassing moments in the bar when you bump into the other pilots you undercut to get the job. It's a small world.
Don't think I've forgotten what it's like but if you start giving yourself away now you'll be worth less when you get further up the ladder.
Then you'll have those embarrassing moments in the bar when you bump into the other pilots you undercut to get the job. It's a small world.
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Some sad news from PNG (need for pilots/staff)
MAF works on the basis that a staff member (pilot/engineer/manager) is supported in part by their home church (or other financial support that can be raised). You're right to say that it won't pay high rates.
This is what life is like in the NFP/Charity (esp Christian Mission) sector. You really do need some faith!
The news I forward below is of a recent accident in PNG resulting in the loss of a MAF pilot. The last paragraph may be of interest to any who feel called into this type of work.
Thanks,
Alan
Taken from last MAF bullitin:
This is what life is like in the NFP/Charity (esp Christian Mission) sector. You really do need some faith!
The news I forward below is of a recent accident in PNG resulting in the loss of a MAF pilot. The last paragraph may be of interest to any who feel called into this type of work.
Thanks,
Alan
Taken from last MAF bullitin:
Accident in Papua New Guinea
Early in the afternoon on Thursday 23 March, Swiss pilot Pierre Fasnacht was tragically killed in an accident in Papua New Guinea when his plane crashed near Tari airstrip in the Southern Highlands.
An emergency locator transmission was picked up and very quickly a helicopter flew and located the aircraft. The injured passengers were swiftly taken to Kudjip hospital near Mount Hagen.
The three passengers in Pierre’s flight had serious injuries but are recovering very well following surgery. One however is still paralysed from the waist down.
Our Safety Manager in PNG, John Wall visited the accident site together with Civil Aviation Authority investigators. Investigations continue into the cause of this tragic event.
A memorial service was held on Wednesday 29 March, commemorating the life of Pierre where family members joined with our team. Pierre has faithfully served remote communities of PNG for nearly 12 years. He was known and respected all over the country, not just as a dedicated pilot but also in his rôle as mission co-ordinator, organising 7,000 mission flights.
After the memorial service, Pierre’s body was flown back to Switzerland.
After suspending operations for a week, flights have slowly resumed. Before this tragic accident, our operation was acutely understaffed but now today we face further drastic cuts in flying as we are nine pilots short to fully use existing aircraft.
Early in the afternoon on Thursday 23 March, Swiss pilot Pierre Fasnacht was tragically killed in an accident in Papua New Guinea when his plane crashed near Tari airstrip in the Southern Highlands.
An emergency locator transmission was picked up and very quickly a helicopter flew and located the aircraft. The injured passengers were swiftly taken to Kudjip hospital near Mount Hagen.
The three passengers in Pierre’s flight had serious injuries but are recovering very well following surgery. One however is still paralysed from the waist down.
Our Safety Manager in PNG, John Wall visited the accident site together with Civil Aviation Authority investigators. Investigations continue into the cause of this tragic event.
A memorial service was held on Wednesday 29 March, commemorating the life of Pierre where family members joined with our team. Pierre has faithfully served remote communities of PNG for nearly 12 years. He was known and respected all over the country, not just as a dedicated pilot but also in his rôle as mission co-ordinator, organising 7,000 mission flights.
After the memorial service, Pierre’s body was flown back to Switzerland.
After suspending operations for a week, flights have slowly resumed. Before this tragic accident, our operation was acutely understaffed but now today we face further drastic cuts in flying as we are nine pilots short to fully use existing aircraft.
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Flintstone What he ^^^^^said.
Don't think I've forgotten what it's like but if you start giving yourself away now you'll be worth less when you get further up the ladder.
Then you'll have those embarrassing moments in the bar when you bump into the other pilots you undercut to get the job. It's a small world.
hey flintstone picture this scene:
you are a human reasorces manager you have been tasked to pick a new pilot for fast medical service`s transport pilot delivery bit and pices of human flesh up and down the uk and sometime europe .
cv no 1
name joe bloggs
prevouis experiace
cpl ir frozen atpl
MAF duties included flying post 300mile from freetown to hoodjamaflip also flew the local witch doctor to his tribe regularly up in the sticks and flew his brains back to his other tribe when he died so that they could have a feast all in all i got 3500 on cesna caravan and flew many long distance flights.
cv no 2
name rude olf
prev experiance
cpl ir atpl
did my training at oxford aviation and got my type rating for dash 8 q 400 self financed got a small job picking a/craft up from bournemouth and transporting them to oxford types were cesna 152 to 310
all in all got 1600 hrs
you choose
experiance counts for alot.
please if any one reading this and works for a company who hires and fires pilots tell me if this is or is not the case
Don't think I've forgotten what it's like but if you start giving yourself away now you'll be worth less when you get further up the ladder.
Then you'll have those embarrassing moments in the bar when you bump into the other pilots you undercut to get the job. It's a small world.
hey flintstone picture this scene:
you are a human reasorces manager you have been tasked to pick a new pilot for fast medical service`s transport pilot delivery bit and pices of human flesh up and down the uk and sometime europe .
cv no 1
name joe bloggs
prevouis experiace
cpl ir frozen atpl
MAF duties included flying post 300mile from freetown to hoodjamaflip also flew the local witch doctor to his tribe regularly up in the sticks and flew his brains back to his other tribe when he died so that they could have a feast all in all i got 3500 on cesna caravan and flew many long distance flights.
cv no 2
name rude olf
prev experiance
cpl ir atpl
did my training at oxford aviation and got my type rating for dash 8 q 400 self financed got a small job picking a/craft up from bournemouth and transporting them to oxford types were cesna 152 to 310
all in all got 1600 hrs
you choose
experiance counts for alot.
please if any one reading this and works for a company who hires and fires pilots tell me if this is or is not the case
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why jon are you MAF`s spokesperson or something?.
yes i know that the maf is a missionary first and an aviation services second
but if you been following the thread you would of notice the general question i had about flying for other charities or sevices for little pay to gain aviation employment experince.
hence my previous statements
do keep up
yes i know that the maf is a missionary first and an aviation services second
but if you been following the thread you would of notice the general question i had about flying for other charities or sevices for little pay to gain aviation employment experince.
hence my previous statements
do keep up
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Yes Matt I am following you and pointing out for the third time that you may become frustrated when MAF or any other christian charity fails to cater for your aims. They are not interested in furthering your career, as they are looking for pilots whose goal is met serving in their organisation rather than beyond it.
Stick to the operations who cater towards an ongoing career.
Stick to the operations who cater towards an ongoing career.
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Originally Posted by matt22scotland
Two CV's, you choose.
As Silverhawk said bush time is really only relevant if you're after another bush job (been there, done that) although the total time can count for insurance requirements.
When I read a cv and interview someone I'm not just interested in their experience level I'm interested in them. How did they gain their experience, what did they do to put hours in their logbook?
If the answer is worked for less than the going rate and by definition undercut their colleagues then for me that's a strong 'tell' as to their personality. What else would they do to further their career? What other corners would they cut? Could I share a cockpit with them or ask my colleagues to do so if I recommend them for a job?
It comes down to integrity, something I find lacking in the 'fly-for-less/fly-for-free/pay-to-fly' fraternity.
You are of course at liberty to disagree with me but in 20 years when you find yourself flying a heavy jet yet being paid the same as a lorry driver you'll know why.
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Originally Posted by Flintstone
Well here's a thing Matt.
It comes down to integrity, something I find lacking in the 'fly-for-less/fly-for-free/pay-to-fly' fraternity.
.
It comes down to integrity, something I find lacking in the 'fly-for-less/fly-for-free/pay-to-fly' fraternity.
.
well in my military experiance .
thoose that are prepared to knuckle down to do hard work beacause they want to be sucessful are better people.
look at richard branson for example
would do anything to make it successful in business even selling crappy newsletters to students and purchaseing a gay club!.
he got big becuse the work he put in at no matter what cost.
yes i disagree with your statement.
think your mindset is one of classism and that you dont believe in or condone anyone that has risen up to be where they want to be.
unfortunately uk aviation is polluted with such mindless classism and general snobbery.
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Well Matt, that was an interesting exercise in twisting my words. I said nothing about people paying for their training. Now go back, read it again and maybe we can continue the conversation.
Classism? That's really, really funny. If your assumption were true I'd be overcome with self loathing seeing as how I've paid my own way on every licence I hold with the exception of the two type ratings my present company bonded me for. I won't bore you with the 'woe is me' spiel but in your own parlance I knuckled down.
Can't wait to tell the lads down the Labour Club I'm now a snob. Those geezers'll larf their arses off.
One of the last gentlemen in the business once told me "Son, after a junior officer with a map and compass the most dangerous thing in the world is an untested assumption". Every so often someone says or writes something to remind me of that.
Classism? That's really, really funny. If your assumption were true I'd be overcome with self loathing seeing as how I've paid my own way on every licence I hold with the exception of the two type ratings my present company bonded me for. I won't bore you with the 'woe is me' spiel but in your own parlance I knuckled down.
Can't wait to tell the lads down the Labour Club I'm now a snob. Those geezers'll larf their arses off.
One of the last gentlemen in the business once told me "Son, after a junior officer with a map and compass the most dangerous thing in the world is an untested assumption". Every so often someone says or writes something to remind me of that.
Matt,
Ignoring the whole fly for nothing issue MAF and similar organisations are not the place for low houred wanabee airline pilots.
If you have any doubt about this do some research into the conditions in places such as the highlands of New Guinea. You might want to get hold of a copy of the ONC for the area and look at the large white bits saying "unsurveyed" or "MEF not determined but believed to be not more than 14000ft" or similar. Then try to imagine what it is like flying a single engine aircraft in marginal VMC below the level of the surrounding terrain (ie through the passes rather than over the top of the mountains), dodging the clouds because they may contain rocks, always looking over your shoulder for a way out in case the weather clamps ahead, into 500m dirt strips at 7000ft AMSL with 20% or more upslopes in the TDZ. The Swiss guy who died had 12 years experience of operating in PNG under those conditions, and he is still dead. With all due respect is this the place for a glider pilot with a lapsed PPL, as you describe yourself?
Ignoring the whole fly for nothing issue MAF and similar organisations are not the place for low houred wanabee airline pilots.
If you have any doubt about this do some research into the conditions in places such as the highlands of New Guinea. You might want to get hold of a copy of the ONC for the area and look at the large white bits saying "unsurveyed" or "MEF not determined but believed to be not more than 14000ft" or similar. Then try to imagine what it is like flying a single engine aircraft in marginal VMC below the level of the surrounding terrain (ie through the passes rather than over the top of the mountains), dodging the clouds because they may contain rocks, always looking over your shoulder for a way out in case the weather clamps ahead, into 500m dirt strips at 7000ft AMSL with 20% or more upslopes in the TDZ. The Swiss guy who died had 12 years experience of operating in PNG under those conditions, and he is still dead. With all due respect is this the place for a glider pilot with a lapsed PPL, as you describe yourself?
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Originally Posted by excrab
Matt,
Ignoring the whole fly for nothing issue MAF and similar organisations are not the place for low houred wanabee airline pilots.
If you have any doubt about this do some research into the conditions in places such as the highlands of New Guinea. You might want to get hold of a copy of the ONC for the area and look at the large white bits saying "unsurveyed" or "MEF not determined but believed to be not more than 14000ft" or similar. Then try to imagine what it is like flying a single engine aircraft in marginal VMC below the level of the surrounding terrain (ie through the passes rather than over the top of the mountains), dodging the clouds because they may contain rocks, always looking over your shoulder for a way out in case the weather clamps ahead, into 500m dirt strips at 7000ft AMSL with 20% or more upslopes in the TDZ. The Swiss guy who died had 12 years experience of operating in PNG under those conditions, and he is still dead. With all due respect is this the place for a glider pilot with a lapsed PPL, as you describe yourself?
Ignoring the whole fly for nothing issue MAF and similar organisations are not the place for low houred wanabee airline pilots.
If you have any doubt about this do some research into the conditions in places such as the highlands of New Guinea. You might want to get hold of a copy of the ONC for the area and look at the large white bits saying "unsurveyed" or "MEF not determined but believed to be not more than 14000ft" or similar. Then try to imagine what it is like flying a single engine aircraft in marginal VMC below the level of the surrounding terrain (ie through the passes rather than over the top of the mountains), dodging the clouds because they may contain rocks, always looking over your shoulder for a way out in case the weather clamps ahead, into 500m dirt strips at 7000ft AMSL with 20% or more upslopes in the TDZ. The Swiss guy who died had 12 years experience of operating in PNG under those conditions, and he is still dead. With all due respect is this the place for a glider pilot with a lapsed PPL, as you describe yourself?
yes it is.
my dream is to fly for a career not sit a shuffle papers or turn bloody spanners day in and out no exicement or challenge .
i was 17 and i got a crappy manufacteruring job just for money for my ppl i spent 40 hours weeks wage on 1 hours flight! WHY
BEACUASE I LIKE FLYING its my re son de tre (incorrectly spelt french word)
surely you all should understand that or are you all to old and bold and who said i`m an airline wananbe? scroll back and you will see that i said i would like an exciting aviation career but maybe one day when aold and bold i will go for airlines maybe and flintstone i suggest you read your own statement again before trying to make a comeback! as the one great homer simpson said dooohhh
paying for training is paying for flying as it cost 60k to get atpl standard in uk
and rogherly an f/o pay is 17k thats if you get a job.
SO YOU ARE PAYING TO GET TO FLY.
think about the bottom of the tree.
Matt,
My apologies. I was wrong. I won't edit the post but you may remove the word "airline" so it now reads "not the place for low houred wanabee pilots".
It isn't. If you want to do that sort of flying you will need at least a CPL/IR, either JAR/FAA or something else acceptable to the local authorities where you intend to fly and to the organisation you wish to fly for. There is no such thing as an "aerial work endorsement" on a PPL. Once you have got that go and get some experience flying, as an instructor or tugging or parachute dropping or whatever. When you have enough hours that you can fly the aircraft without thinking about it thus enabling you to think about all the other cr*p you do have to think about as a bush pilot in that sort of terrain you may understand what I am talking about.
However much you might like it to be operating in New Guinea or Africa or any of the places that operators such as MAF or Airserve or any of the other aid/relief/missionary operators fly is not like flying a super cub around your local gliding club.
Flintstone - you just beat me to it. I hope you're wrong but...
My apologies. I was wrong. I won't edit the post but you may remove the word "airline" so it now reads "not the place for low houred wanabee pilots".
It isn't. If you want to do that sort of flying you will need at least a CPL/IR, either JAR/FAA or something else acceptable to the local authorities where you intend to fly and to the organisation you wish to fly for. There is no such thing as an "aerial work endorsement" on a PPL. Once you have got that go and get some experience flying, as an instructor or tugging or parachute dropping or whatever. When you have enough hours that you can fly the aircraft without thinking about it thus enabling you to think about all the other cr*p you do have to think about as a bush pilot in that sort of terrain you may understand what I am talking about.
However much you might like it to be operating in New Guinea or Africa or any of the places that operators such as MAF or Airserve or any of the other aid/relief/missionary operators fly is not like flying a super cub around your local gliding club.
Flintstone - you just beat me to it. I hope you're wrong but...
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Bad news Matt. As an ex bush pilot there are papers to be shuffled and the odd spanner job. But furstlee you need spel cheque beacuase your speling and word structure are atroshus. Could be it's your CV!
Otherwise, know there will aways be things to make you frustrated, whether it be the company has stopped serving cheese and biscuits to the flight deck, or some chap from the Interrehamwe with an AK47 in some Congolese jungle wants to arrest you (again). Just keep your frustrations in check. We've all been in situations where we've thought there's no light at the end of the tunnel.
Otherwise, know there will aways be things to make you frustrated, whether it be the company has stopped serving cheese and biscuits to the flight deck, or some chap from the Interrehamwe with an AK47 in some Congolese jungle wants to arrest you (again). Just keep your frustrations in check. We've all been in situations where we've thought there's no light at the end of the tunnel.
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Originally Posted by policepilot
But furstlee you need spel cheque beacuase your speling and word structure are atroshus. Could be it's your CV!
Ok Matt, I apologise for being flippant (in this post only) but everything that people have said to you so far has merit. Do yourself a favour, wind your neck in and digest it.
Just because bush flying often involves relatively simple aircraft and uncontrolled airspace that does NOT make it easier. Having done it myself for a couple of thousand hours (I'm a mere apprentice compared with some of the people trying to help you here) and having spent another few thousand punting around Europe in bizjets I can honestly tell you that it's the former that will kill you the quickest.
I'm more than happy to help people on their way up and have done so on a few occasions but I know a lost cause when I see one. Last one was a CPL student of mine. They found the remains of him and his aircraft after he flew into a CB on the first day of his first job.
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Originally Posted by Flintstone
I'm more than happy to help people on their way up and have done so on a few occasions but I know a lost cause when I see one. Last one was a CPL student of mine. They found the remains of him and his aircraft after he flew into a CB on the first day of his first job..
oh and yes whats wrong with mild dsylexia?
in does not make one low intelliect or difficult to understand and if i was writinng a cv then it will be correct obviously! so what your saying i should sit here with a fraklin spellchecker to reply to your utter insults
my gripe is with people a NRTFQ
and comeing back with complete no help whatsoever nonsense.
so in that i like to thank thoose tht came back with inteligent answers to my Q.
and even thoose with utter uncalled for insults
this matter is now dead!