Netjets claim to have the BEST pilots!!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: London ( once in a while )
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The heart of the matter is that elusive quality called 'Captaincy'.
Those who have it know just what I refer to, those who don't aren't quite ready to step up the plate, yet.
I am pleased to say that I have worked with many corporate crews from low to high timers who have obviously got 'it', and certainly in the Bizjet world its a real amalgam of qualities; personality, experience, and training. Sadly however, it can still be lacking in spade-loads from the most unexpected quarters.
Those who have it know just what I refer to, those who don't aren't quite ready to step up the plate, yet.
I am pleased to say that I have worked with many corporate crews from low to high timers who have obviously got 'it', and certainly in the Bizjet world its a real amalgam of qualities; personality, experience, and training. Sadly however, it can still be lacking in spade-loads from the most unexpected quarters.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
B.R,
Could you put a figure on 'very, very well'?
If i understand you correctly flex had a number of operators doing their work, so the pay and conditions depended on which subcontract outfit pilots worked for. any idea what the average/minimum was?
no doubt you've probably guessed, i'm not in corporate. so any help in figuring out if it's worth the effort and how much I could expect as a salary. would be appreciated.
thanks
Could you put a figure on 'very, very well'?
If i understand you correctly flex had a number of operators doing their work, so the pay and conditions depended on which subcontract outfit pilots worked for. any idea what the average/minimum was?
no doubt you've probably guessed, i'm not in corporate. so any help in figuring out if it's worth the effort and how much I could expect as a salary. would be appreciated.
thanks
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tea green International
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flex fares
As my African friend quotes the Flexjet salary was of that magnitude. plus overtime!!!!, per diems!!!!!! and luncheon vouchers!!!!!!
As to the new Flexjet operators, I have no idea as to salaries, but would suspect similar. They are well establised companies.
There must be one or two Guys who can answer your question better than what I can.
BBCapt is 101% correct.
There are Guys out there who should not be let loose in Toys R us let alone Airports.
They have obtained a rating, and as a result of being in the right place at the right time, and a suitable coloured nose managed to get a position of responsability.
I wish BBC all the best in his recent appointment, and hope to see him soon.
As to the new Flexjet operators, I have no idea as to salaries, but would suspect similar. They are well establised companies.
There must be one or two Guys who can answer your question better than what I can.
BBCapt is 101% correct.
There are Guys out there who should not be let loose in Toys R us let alone Airports.
They have obtained a rating, and as a result of being in the right place at the right time, and a suitable coloured nose managed to get a position of responsability.
I wish BBC all the best in his recent appointment, and hope to see him soon.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Variing
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
quote:
However a client, or a owner I am sure, given the choice would prefer to fly with a crew, that is both competent and experienced. Rather than just competent.
_______________________________________
I´m in the business for 12 years, logged some 5000 hrs.
The sad truth is:
they (Clients) are willing to spend loads of money to get from a to b. BUT, if they can save, say 200€ on a trip that costs 10000€, they´ll go for the cheaper offer.
They nearly never ask for the qualification of the cockpit personell or the experience.
Normal reaction is: well they´re ok for the authorities, thats enough.
Now, any company sending their pilots to FS or similar twice a year will build a competent bunch of Pilots - at least the flying is done properly then.
In smaller companies beeing a exec pilot is much more - but at NJE there is a lot organisation around.
Having said that, I met a friend who is with NJE since nearly 4 years and he is sick of that company to an extend that I could hardly believe...mainly over roster and duty stuff (I won´t go deeper into it)
Back to silverhawks original post :
it is marketing, nothing else - the good point is, NJE is often very expensive which leads back to my first point - they´ll not be considered by the majority of our clients because of their price.
However a client, or a owner I am sure, given the choice would prefer to fly with a crew, that is both competent and experienced. Rather than just competent.
_______________________________________
I´m in the business for 12 years, logged some 5000 hrs.
The sad truth is:
they (Clients) are willing to spend loads of money to get from a to b. BUT, if they can save, say 200€ on a trip that costs 10000€, they´ll go for the cheaper offer.
They nearly never ask for the qualification of the cockpit personell or the experience.
Normal reaction is: well they´re ok for the authorities, thats enough.
Now, any company sending their pilots to FS or similar twice a year will build a competent bunch of Pilots - at least the flying is done properly then.
In smaller companies beeing a exec pilot is much more - but at NJE there is a lot organisation around.
Having said that, I met a friend who is with NJE since nearly 4 years and he is sick of that company to an extend that I could hardly believe...mainly over roster and duty stuff (I won´t go deeper into it)
Back to silverhawks original post :
it is marketing, nothing else - the good point is, NJE is often very expensive which leads back to my first point - they´ll not be considered by the majority of our clients because of their price.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: EUROPE
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sorry guys,
You talk alot about scatered problems that are the consequences of the root problem.... MANAGEMENT.
Just take one of the examples
I know one Captain that once stalled a G-IV during cruise.
This guy did that while he was a Director of Standards.
You talk alot about scatered problems that are the consequences of the root problem.... MANAGEMENT.
Just take one of the examples
I know one Captain that once stalled a G-IV during cruise.
This guy did that while he was a Director of Standards.
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 27th Sep 2003 at 18:47.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Med
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I never thought much of these new type managerial pilots...
Fact seem to be that pilots make worse possible managers. Better stick to cockpit only and leave other duties to professionals as well. Or other way around!
Blues
Fact seem to be that pilots make worse possible managers. Better stick to cockpit only and leave other duties to professionals as well. Or other way around!
Blues
Rather than suggest netjets have the best pilots I would rather propose the notion that they have the most non-motivated, fed up, lied to and abused workforce in general aviation today.
All thanks to their self opinionated, self important, bully boy tactics management in Lisbon.
With Marquis Jet now in difficulties and a growing questionable future in Europe for fractionals one would be forgiven for thinking Warren Buffett would intervene now before it's too late!
All thanks to their self opinionated, self important, bully boy tactics management in Lisbon.
With Marquis Jet now in difficulties and a growing questionable future in Europe for fractionals one would be forgiven for thinking Warren Buffett would intervene now before it's too late!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Planet Earth for a short visit
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
doublue-anker
it's not that NJE can't stomach the truth. The furious editting in some postings may be due to NJE's past history of heavy handed legal actions coupled with very expensive gagging orders when dealing with disgruntled employees after they have resigned.
NJE know the truth already, they just don't want the customers to hear it.
it's not that NJE can't stomach the truth. The furious editting in some postings may be due to NJE's past history of heavy handed legal actions coupled with very expensive gagging orders when dealing with disgruntled employees after they have resigned.
NJE know the truth already, they just don't want the customers to hear it.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the sea side
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HI
Being in that company for few months now , I can affirm that all the pilot sI have been flyiing with are really professional , efficient safe .
I'm sure it's not the only company in this case , but as a passenger I would be very confident .
As far as I'm concerned , I really think it's a great company . I'm pease to do that job . I's exciting , various , tiring of course , but pleasant .
Well ? Being tired when I do what I like , doesn't matter . I thought it was the advantage of pilot job : being happy going to work ... Surprisingly , after reading all these posts , it looks not so obvious for some of you .
May be , you're ready to change .
However , I wish all the best for all of you , JUST BE HAPPY , your life is unic and just belong to you : don't waste it .
BIDOUF
Being in that company for few months now , I can affirm that all the pilot sI have been flyiing with are really professional , efficient safe .
I'm sure it's not the only company in this case , but as a passenger I would be very confident .
As far as I'm concerned , I really think it's a great company . I'm pease to do that job . I's exciting , various , tiring of course , but pleasant .
Well ? Being tired when I do what I like , doesn't matter . I thought it was the advantage of pilot job : being happy going to work ... Surprisingly , after reading all these posts , it looks not so obvious for some of you .
May be , you're ready to change .
However , I wish all the best for all of you , JUST BE HAPPY , your life is unic and just belong to you : don't waste it .
BIDOUF
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bidouf - Like most companies NJE has some very good and experienced pilots and I have not flown with one who has raised my eyebrows yet either. However, I'd be interested to see your reply when you've been in 12 months as I think you'll have different view of the comany by then.
To the original - thread "NJ claim to have the best pilots". No company in aviation can lay that claim because we don't have league tables. I have seen that quote in literature and it is a quote from PGA golfer Lee Westwood. Lee is a bloody good golfer but knows little of the detail of our industry. The sales stuff is slightly misleading but thats true of virtually every company.
Good thread and interested to hear more about the Marquis Jet claim.
To the original - thread "NJ claim to have the best pilots". No company in aviation can lay that claim because we don't have league tables. I have seen that quote in literature and it is a quote from PGA golfer Lee Westwood. Lee is a bloody good golfer but knows little of the detail of our industry. The sales stuff is slightly misleading but thats true of virtually every company.
Good thread and interested to hear more about the Marquis Jet claim.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Where the Money Takes Me
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With a high profile name just jumping ship to Marquis, I would be very surprised if they remained in trouble in the short term. The longer term may be different however.
Flat Spin.
What I mean is the take up has been not as expected and as such the future of the program is now in question. It's all too expensive and cannot compete with the charter market.
See Times newspaper article 14-09-03
What I mean is the take up has been not as expected and as such the future of the program is now in question. It's all too expensive and cannot compete with the charter market.
See Times newspaper article 14-09-03
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A couple of questions that might have already been addressed:
1. Do the Falcons fly over the pond to the States and beyond?
2. How far afield do the Falcons fly - Africa and Asia too?
3. Let's say you start as a Bravo or Excel FO, what would be your likely career progression - straight to Captain on type or could you jump to Hawker Captain if growth happens?
4. Lastly, if pilots are hired onto the Falcon or Hawker vs. the citations, do they typically have more experience/hours?
1. Do the Falcons fly over the pond to the States and beyond?
2. How far afield do the Falcons fly - Africa and Asia too?
3. Let's say you start as a Bravo or Excel FO, what would be your likely career progression - straight to Captain on type or could you jump to Hawker Captain if growth happens?
4. Lastly, if pilots are hired onto the Falcon or Hawker vs. the citations, do they typically have more experience/hours?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Med
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilot Dude
With those salaries your pilots must really love their jobs! I would be afraid that some of the "better ones" may look something better paid when available...
Netjet salaries seem to be well below what Flexjet used to pay.
How they say , pay peanuts and get monkies...
Blues
With those salaries your pilots must really love their jobs! I would be afraid that some of the "better ones" may look something better paid when available...
Netjet salaries seem to be well below what Flexjet used to pay.
How they say , pay peanuts and get monkies...
Blues