Ref the Gipsy/Gypsy debate

My copy of the "DE HAVILLAND GIPSY MOTH" price list dated July 16th 1929 is spelt thus and it refers to the "Gipsy" engine also so the I's have it so to speak

Wunper:)

And wasn't the Rover V8 engine also related to the Simca Vedette V8 engine? (Think Chrysler owned Simca so guess that's how it ended up with a Buick engine?)

Many moons ago someone down here (Land of Oz) decided to install a Rover V8 in a Piper Pawnee or some similar agricultural aircraft. Don't think he worried about the formalities of certification or even having a pilot's license or engineering qualifications. I think the authorities caught up with him on taxi trials, shortly before his first test flight.......

I also recall a gas turbine engined Rover - think it was in a Museum in London - the Museum of Modern Science?

I also feel the HS65 Argosy had a Rover turbine APU - and it was noisy, thirsty and rather "agricultural"!

Talking of turbine engine installations, many moons ago a Dart was being installed in a P51 Mustang in Canberra but I heard the aircraft never flew, the Dart was removed and the original engine re installed. That was in the days before War Birds were accepted here, the Mustang being the exception - it was civil certified in Australia for commercial flying operations (a civil target towing contract). Mustangs here were Australian built by CAC.

Yes, lovely aircraft the Chippie...... My very first flying lessons were in Chippies. The two at the local aeroclub were sold sometime in the 1960's for a reputed 850 Aussie quid each - Aus$1,700 or around 550 Pommy Quid each in todays money!

About Rover etc. engines-
As an old rev head and hot rodder, I'm very familiar with the alloy V8 Rover.
It started life as the Oldsmobile Rocket in 1951. Revolutionary - all alloy, OHV and about 450lb with clutch - Ford V8 of that era SV and 630lb with clutch. Rover used the basic block for years, but its finest moment was when Sir Jack Brabham persuaded Repco (Oz car parts mfrg) to turn it into a 3L F1 engine. They did a pretty good job, JB won 2 F1 world titles and his team mate (Denny Hulme) won 1 in the late 1960s. (I know, most of you readers weren't even a dirty thought then!!!). Leyland (BMC) in Oz used the block in the ill starred P76.
As you can imagine, they were a gift from Heaven to a hot rod builder of the 1960s - they cost the earth, though. Oz mechanics had little idea about care and feeding of all alloy engines so many suffered badly from corrosion due improper coolant.
Now, let me think - what was this thread about!!! ;)

Believe the Rocket V-8 from Olds was cast iron. The engine in the Buick was all aluminium alloy and as was pointed out the problems were with corrosion (don't think the Yank mechanics were too up on how to deal with the cooling needs either), wear and overheating. Along with some disimilar metal corrosion.


Believe one of the fixes for wear and possibly heat transmission thermal distortion problems was iron sleeves in the cylinders.

Buick does (or did) a lot of the engine development for General Motors in the US (Chevrolet, Cadillac, Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile) and builds the high performance engines (like for Corvettes). GM and Chrysler (or Daimler Chrysler or whatever they are today) are two different animals. GM did own Opel and some other stuff in Europe and of course Holden in Oz.

IF one were going to do a liquid cooled engine for an aircraft application a light alloy block would be a reasonable start. Believe a turbocharger to get max power out of smallest engine would be needed and a really healthy cooling system.

Ford not Rover
 

All this stuff about the delightful Rover / Buick 215 ci V8 family is music to my ears, as is the exhaust note of that emininetly practical and tunable engine itself. But with regret I must confirm that the one-off Aero Bonner Sapphire engine powering the converted Chipmunk, as written about in Pilot (still have it at home somewhere) was not based on the Rover but a Ford V6 block. It was quite clear in both the text and pictures.

I have no idea why he chose the Ford, since the Rover seems like a more practical starting point, but there it is. However, it was turbocharged, and knocked out some 200 bhp, looked like a mini-Merlin and gave the Chippy a nice pointy nose, with a little radiator underneath like a small version of that on a Hurricane. I'm pretty sure it was G-ARWB.

There may, of course, have been a different Chipmunk conversion at some stage using the Rover / Buick engine, but I've never heard of it.

Anyone know what became of Bill Bonner and his enterprise?

Lowtimer I sit corrected (I never stand when typing) :D

Again I was relying on my memory cos my stack of Pilot magazines is at home not where I am right now. I'd forgotten that Mr. Bonner had turbo'd the engine. I do remember that it was direct drive so it was operating at well below the engine's full bhp potential.

With all the advances in gearbox design over the years for Rotax's etc maybe the Bonner Sapphire's time has come. Think how much nicer a C150 would look with a pointy nose. :D :D

Could look nice in the front of an Auster too. Be a damn sight smoother and quieter than my Cirrus :rolleyes:

Torres,

I believe Rover experimented with a number of gas turbine powered cars, both for road and competition use. One was driven by Graham Hill and Richie Ginther at Le Mans in 1963. Seem to recall seeing it at the Heritage Motor Centre situated at Gaydon - a former RAF 'V-Bomber base' - which just about gets this thread back to aviation !! ;)


Then there was the Lotus gas turbine F1 car - I remember seeing it at Oulton Park in the late sixties - woops, drifting off again !! :o

mustafagander. Interesting you mention Jack Brabham. Many years ago in the Kingdom of Tonga an old Aussie wander into my office and asked for a job as an aircraft engineer. Most unlikely looking guy for an engineer, but he had a string of Aussie, Kiwi and UK licenses and ratings on everything from lighties to heavy metal.

He was Jack Brabham's older brother, Otto!

Torres,
I believe that there was a Pawnee converted in the early 90's with a Chev 350 all alloy job built by a well renowned marine race engine builder.Looked like a neat conversion,Predator carb,extractors,exhaust all the way to the tailwheel,full electronic ignition etc.I believe also that this A/C may still be plying the paddocks around Port Lincoln way,stand to be corrected though!:cool: :rolleyes: :cool:

There was an article in 'Pilot' years ago about the 'Bonner' Chippy.

Flatus, what's this about main spar fatigue in the Chippy? I wasn't aware that Chippys had suffered *any* fatigue problems. I'm certainly not aware of a 'fatigue life' on our beloved machine's wing?

SSD

Wild Rovers

There has been some mention of gas turbine powered Rover cars earlier on this thread. For those who have not have seen it before, there is a repeat of a TV programme very early on Friday morning:-

Friday 21 June 2002 - CH4 (UK) 04.20 - 04.50 am BST

Classic British Cars - Wild Rovers: Rover's experiments with jet-powered cars.

04:20? blimey, thought getting up to watch Brazil be.. er, get thrashed by Beckham's Boys was going to be bad enough, my bloody video's programmer's had it...