As the thread is about holiday jets and that's all my only extremely limited experience of them is, I will add just one thing that's irrelevant compared to most previous posts which are more about the aeroplane rather than human cargo.
In cattle-class configuration, at 6' 1" I didn't fit and for that reason alone I hated the things! I'm far from a regular or even seasoned traveller so I've no idea of which airlines now but I'm pretty sure it was Luton to Gerona and return, and then Luton to Palma and return in late 1973 and then, long after, Gatwick to Nice and back in 1985. My heart sank when years later I walked out to the apron at Gatwick and saw another 1-11... |
Boarding cards ain't what they used to be.....
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....270f670e5.jpeg From either G-AWWZ, LTN-MXP 30.12.81 or G-AXMG, MXP-LTN 06.01.81. My instinct is with the former. |
Re the Pacific Express livery.
I was in Hangar 1 at Gatwick the day they painted the name on the side. As the masking tape was removed an american voice beside me asked what I thought of it. I said "quite striking, but when the cabin door is open you can't see the name. Why don't you move the name further back?" The gent huffed and walked off.Turned out he was the boss of the airline. I have noticed this on quite a few airline colour schemes over the years. Flybe 146s come to mind. |
There is good "official" performance information on this website dedicated to the 1-11: http://www.bac1-11jet.co.uk/bac1-11j...ifications.htm
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Originally Posted by dixi188
(Post 11058307)
The gent huffed and walked off.Turned out he was the boss of the airline.
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Re the Pacific Express livery. I was in Hangar 1 at Gatwick the day they painted the name on the side. As the masking tape was removed an american voice beside me asked what I thought of it. I said "quite striking, but when the cabin door is open you can't see the name. Why don't you move the name further back?" The gent huffed and walked off.Turned out he was the boss of the airline. I have noticed this on quite a few airline colour schemes over the years. Flybe 146s come to mind. |
A classic one was the new Thomas Cook branding, large graphic across the fuselage, where the placement of cabin windows on narrow bodies breaking up the characters made it look more that it was saying Thomson, their principal competitor.
Carriers in the 1950s found that having the upper fuselage of an aircraft white gave significant benefit to air conditioning loads, which was later forgotten by some (not all) design houses. BMI got a substantial reprimand in an AAIB report into a near-miss at Heathrow with a lined-up aircraft, where the new matt blue/grey upper fuselage made it much less visible to an approaching lander. |
Though I gained my BAC 1-11, AME licence whilst at BEA, I first got its use in the issue of the same in Nassau Bahamas. Bahamasair had leased A.A. BAC1-11's; it was a real holiday operation with rum punch served to the passengers, but my work was on night shift and as such not a holiday. I then went onto Air Malawi and can especially recall the 1-11 holiday flights to Seychelles, they were already load limited and several times passengers had to be off loaded; I also understood the only available diversion near the Island, was a golf course; the 475 series had the fat main wheels but the nose wheel gravel deflectors had been removed. From there I went to Gulf Air but soon after joining, their 1-11's were replace by B737's which ended my 1-11 career.
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If you had an isolation valve to change in the stub wing, that was your entire night shift gone. The PRV was a doddle in comparison....The brake pedal foot motors were another favourite....
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Well, this seems the thread to assist my quest, over the years have often wondered.
Back in 1991/1992 as a fresher at (Edinburgh) University we had an older black gentleman on our course (in his forties/fifties) and once our paths crossed in the cafeteria/refectory and we had a coffee together - he opened up and told me that he was an ex 1-11 captain, for a Scottish carrier. Later on in life I often wondered whom this carrier was, perhaps at the time he told me but my memory fails me. Were their any Scottish operators of the 1-11 in the 80's or has my memory failed me again? |
British Caledonian ? Half half ;-)
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Could that Scottish 1-11 carrier have been Loganair ?
They leased G-AZUK for 5 months in 1989. |
Originally Posted by Wee Clink
(Post 11059049)
Could that Scottish 1-11 carrier have been Loganair ?
They leased G-AZUK for 5 months in 1989. |
Originally Posted by PV1
(Post 11059199)
I think it was Air Ecosse
Air UK did lease 2 1-11s from BIA for a period in the eighties based at ABZ and GLA until replaced by new 146s |
EuroScot Express had G-AVMT
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Originally Posted by bean
(Post 11059234)
No chance. The largest aircraft used by them were two leased heralds in 1978
Air UK did lease 2 1-11s from BIA for a period in the eighties based at ABZ and GLA until replaced by new 146s |
Originally Posted by SWBKCB
(Post 11059246)
EuroScot Express had G-AVMT
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Originally Posted by PV1
(Post 11059248)
If you go to jet photos and search for Air Ecosse they have a BIA 1-11 with Air Ecosse markings. It was a wet lease of G-AXMU. In fact the Air UK operation was to replace the F28’s which had been sold and they needed to replace the capacity until the following season. The 146’s came much later.
The Air Anglia F28s which were woefully unprofitable, were disposed of on lease to TAT in july 1980 They never came back. Air UK went into survival mode in 1980 and contracted instead of expanding. They tentatively re entered jet operations with 1 f28 1000 leased from Fokker to do the ABZ AMS route on 1983. Circa 1985 they dry leases a 1-11 from BIA to run GLA-AMS via NCL. The Fokker was replaced by a second BIA 1-11. The 146s on these routes came along in 1988 |
Originally Posted by PV1
(Post 11059248)
If you go to jet photos and search for Air Ecosse they have a BIA 1-11 with Air Ecosse markings. It was a wet lease of G-AXMU. In fact the Air UK operation was to replace the F28’s which had been sold and they needed to replace the capacity until the following season. The 146’s came much later.
The Air Anglia F28s which were woefully unprofitable, were disposed of on lease to TAT in july 1980 They never came back. Air UK went into survival mode in 1980 and contracted instead of expanding. They tentatively re entered jet operations with 1 f28 1000 leased from Fokker to do the ABZ AMS route on 1983. Circa 1985 they dry leases a 1-11 from BIA to run GLA-AMS via NCL. The Fokker was replaced by a second BIA 1-11. The 146s on these routes came along in 1988 |
Originally Posted by bean
(Post 11059273)
incorrect
The Air Anglia F28s which were woefully unprofitable, were disposed of on lease to TAT in july 1980 They never came back. Air UK went into survival mode in 1980 and contracted instead of expanding. They tentatively re entered jet operations with 1 f28 1000 leased from Fokker to do the ABZ AMS route on 1983. Circa 1985 they dry leases a 1-11 from BIA to run GLA-AMS via NCL. The Fokker was replaced by a second BIA 1-11. The 146s on these routes came along in 1988 I think you will find that Air UK did not have the 1-11 on their AOC by 1985 so could not have dry leased them. They certainly had them on their AOC in 1980/81as Air UK was formed by the merger of BIA and Air Anglia and it was then that they replaced the F28 which were initially leased to TAT and subsequently sold. The ABZ Schedules were timetabled and had bookings so the 1-11’s were used until the next timetable change as the F28’s were released to TAT before the end of the season. Subsequently F27’s were reinstated on the routes as the load factors never justified the larger capacity aeroplanes |
No the 1-11s were not timetabled in 1980. The f28s were replaced by additional f27 purchase
4 of them. I am prepared to concede that the 1-11s may have been wey leased, but they operated for four years which seems like a long time without crews being trained |
Originally Posted by bean
(Post 11059299)
No the 1-11s were not timetabled in 1980. The f28s were replaced by additional f27 purchase
4 of them. I am prepared to concede that the 1-11s may have been wey leased, but they operated for four years which seems like a long time without crews being trained You may be right about the wet/dry lease in mid 80’s I can’t remember all the details. |
why operate unprofitable jets on a route displacing other unprofitable jets at a time of declining loads caused ny a recession.
I reiterate the F28s were replaced ny additional f27s brought into the fleet |
Sorry for the underlining on previous post unintentional.
So, you"re saying 50 per cent of the remaining available jet fleet were pulled off bread and butter IT work to service unpofitable schedules? |
The only reference I have for Air Ecosse and a One-Eleven is indeed G-AXMU, leased from BIA from 23 Jan 84 to 6 Feb 84 - just a couple of weeks. Probably just covering an unserviceability.
It then went off to Airways International Cymru in their first year for the summer, running from Cardiff for Red Dragon Travel, when it was more likely to be a "Holiday Jet". |
Originally Posted by bean
(Post 11059326)
Sorry for the underlining on previous post unintentional.
So, you"re saying 50 per cent of the remaining available jet fleet were pulled off bread and butter IT work to service unpofitable schedules? |
What few passengers there were on the route.
I"m sure the passengers who had been sold jet timings on the IT routes would have been equally peeved. What about penalty clauses on cancelled IT contracts in order to redeploy two aircraft? |
Originally Posted by bean
(Post 11059402)
What few passengers there were on the route.
I"m sure the passengers who had been sold jet timings on the IT routes would have been equally peeved. What about penalty clauses on cancelled IT contracts in order to redeploy two aircraft? |
My eldest sister booked a holiday to Spain in 1968, the carrier was Autair and much was made in the brochure of the new BAC 1-11s for that year.
Just before she left for her holiday my father (flight shed inspector at Hurn), told her that the first 1-11 had not been delivered yet so the flight would be on something older. She flew out on a Constellation. The return was on the newly delivered 1-11. How much would you pay to do that today? |
[QUOTE=WHBM;11059349]The only reference I have for Air Ecosse and a One-Eleven is indeed G-AXMU, leased from BIA from 23 Jan 84 to 6 Feb 84 - just a couple of weeks. Probably just covering an unserviceability.
From bac1-11jet.co.uk........ Air Écosse, Ltd. - (SM/ECS) Aberdeen-Dyce This company wet leased a Series 432FD from 23rd January to 6th February 1984 for a proposed new route from Aberdeen to Heathrow. The license was not granted and the aircraft was returned to British Island Airways Ltd. |
Originally Posted by dixi188
(Post 11059484)
My eldest sister booked a holiday to Spain in 1968, the carrier was Autair and much was made in the brochure of the new BAC 1-11s for that year.
Just before she left for her holiday my father (flight shed inspector at Hurn), told her that the first 1-11 had not been delivered yet so the flight would be on something older. She flew out on a Constellation. The return was on the newly delivered 1-11. How much would you pay to do that today? Autair had some |
I did something similar in 1969. Flew to Luxembourg from Birmingham on a 1-11, diverted there from Luton the previous night and then back on the Ambassador!
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A blast down memory lane there. I definitely remember seein ghr Loganair -400 series. First flights as a kid on charters were MAN-MAH and return on the inside of a W from LGW. Out on I think G-BJYL and back on G-BEKA in 1987
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Originally Posted by bean
(Post 11059753)
Dixi. It must have been an ambassador
Autair had some Unfortunately she died 2 years ago so I can't ask her. She was 8 years older than me. |
Originally Posted by Level bust
(Post 11059809)
I did something similar in 1969. Flew to Luxembourg from Birmingham on a 1-11, diverted there from Luton the previous night and then back on the Ambassador!
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Was the Ambassador that languished at LGW for some years one of the Autair examples ? It seemed to be parked on that apron beyond where the North Terminal is now situated.
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack
(Post 11060215)
Was the Ambassador that languished at LGW for some years one of the Autair examples ? It seemed to be parked on that apron beyond where the North Terminal is now situated.
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Autair's last Ambassador flight was 30 June 1968
It was later than that, I flew back from Luxembourg on G-ALZZ on the 19th September 1968! I believe that was the last flight as my Dad, who worked for Autair at the time, said after we got off they towed it into the hangar and found cracks in the undercarriage. |
Hmmm ... it may be (though not stated as such) that it was just their last scheduled flight then, when they were replaced by secondhand Handley Page Heralds. Autair had two distinctly different operating regimes, one was somewhat oddball domestic scheduled flights, originally centred on Luton but latterly at Heathrow, and separately their holiday charters, principally from Luton, and mainly for the Clarksons tour operator. There was some crossover in the fleets between these, even (desperately trying to get us back on topic) occasionally using the One-Elevens to Jersey when the weekend scheduled propeller flights there had been disrupted by fog.
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I think that was another BKS landing accident one, nosewheel collapse at Gatwick; the damaged airframe was bought by Dan-Air for spares. Dan-Air became, inevitably, the last users. Autair's last Ambassador flight was 30 June 1968 It was later than that, I flew back from Luxembourg on G-ALZZ on the 19th September 1968! I believe that was the last flight as my Dad, who worked for Autair at the time, said after we got off they towed it into the hangar and found cracks in the undercarriage. |
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