"The Lot IL18 I recall on the AMS/LHR sector had around 14 pax on board. It was as smoky inside as it was outside, with a thick exhaust from the
Ivchenko engines. The guy sitting behind me was American, and amazed that free drinks were being offered. I flew in recent years with Eurolot on an ATR (not my favourite a.c.) and found LOT very
acceptable, and cabin staff very polite and professional. L.S."

Back in 1973 in my youth I flew AMS- LHR on a LOT Il-18 - there'd been all sorts of bad weather about for days and both KLM & BA were cancelling flights all over the shop (my flight LHR-AMS was in a DC-8-63!) LOT were one of the few flying and I was on a packed but comfortable Il-18 ... for three hours... someone skidded of the side of the runaway at LHR and we were stacked for well over 90 minutes.......... but as you say the booze was free so no pain was felt...... ;)​​​​​​​

Asturias56.
Thanks for reminding me of a flt I took in a DC8 AMS/LHR with a friend in the 1970's Working for BE, we had great discounted travel with PA. We flew in a PAN-AM DC8 which PA had been operated by Delta prior to PA. Spending much time in AMS, I usually used direct services from MAN to AMS. EI/ BAC1-11, and B720 BE S1-11 KL/ELECTRA /DC9 /and sometimes a Martins Air Charter DC7.

Lance Shippey

Entertaining airing of Deutschland 89 on Channel 4 (U.K) at the moment. and a different take on the events after the downing of the wall in 1989. (Rather dark) but worth an hours viewing nevertheless. Also "Strange but True" that a laboratory in the former DDR town of Dessau Rosslau are in talks with Russia to produce the Sputnik V vaccine under licence.

Lance Shippey

Last night saw the final episode in Walter presents "Deutschland 89" on one of the Channel 4 {U.K.} T.V. channels. Dark and entertaining, but not easy to keep up with the twist and turns, and fictional violence. Interesting was the final scenes in a CIA interrogation bunker in the middle of a GDR forest. I wonder if such a bunker really existed, or was this pure fantasy for the series ?

Lance Shippey.

On the afternoon of Nov. 9th 1989 deputy U.S Ambassador J, Bindenagel and GDR Lawyer Prof.Dr. Wolfgang Vogel met at a meeting on Friedrichstrasse East Berlin. After the meeting, Mr. Bindenagel offered Dr. Vogel a lift, as Prof. Dr Vogel had arrived at the meeting in East Berlin without his Golden Mercedes.

It gave opportunity for the U.S. Deputy ambassador to get the latest news of the East Germans being able to get exit visas to leave the GDR when they wished. Dr. Vogel's Mercedes according a CIA report was parked near the Ku-Dam in West Berlin. My thoughts are Why did Dr Vogel park his car in West Berlin on that eventful day ? and not at the meeting on Friedrichstrasse in East Berlin ?
Lance Shippey

The meeting at the Aspen Institute on the afternoon of Nov.9th. 1989 was at the Wahnsee in West Berlin. The building at Wahnsee had been one of the homes of Josef Goebbels during WW2, demolished after the war, and as a rebuild became the home for the Aspen Institute. Late afternoon Prof Dr.. Vogel was given a lift back to West Berlin, where he had parked his car by vice Ambassador James Bindenagel. Mr Bindenagel informs me that he didn't know why Prof Vogel had parked his car near the Ku-damm in West Berlin.

In an interview Mr Bindenagel gave to the Library of Congress, he reported a meeting between himself and the U.S. Ambassador to East Germany with Wolfgang Vogel at Vogel's modest home at the Titisee. The location of the house at Titisee appeared very unlikely to me. Mrs Vogel advised me that they did not own a home on the Titisee, and this is probably refers to a meeting her husband had at their home on the Schwerinsee outside East Berlin a couple of months before the fall of the Berlin Wall. Mr Bindenagel, after consulting his old notes confirms the information given by Mrs Vogel.

Lance Shippey

An excellent article written by Daniel Friedrich Sturm, U.S. Correspondent for WELT gives a great insight into some of the intrigue surrounding the Flight to Berlin on the 10th November 1989 and if, or if NOT fellow architect of "Ost Politik" was on board the R.A.F. Andover from Cologne to Templehof. The article can be found by searching WELT Die Reise seines Lebens written 11th Feb 2014. It can be translated by google translate and becomes WELT The journey of a Lifetime.

Lance Shippey

Recently James Bindenagel, U.S. Deputy Ambassador to East Germany informed me that he arranged the meeting at Kennedy Platz on the afternoon of November 10th 1989 in which Willy Brandt had pronounced his comment what belongs together grows together. "Es waechst zusammen was yusammen gehoert" I have listened to the speech, and cannot identify Herr Brandt saying this. Are these words spoken by Mayor Momper to a reporter, or had I missed Willy Brandt saying this ??

Lance Shippey

The Fellow architect to Brandt of "Ost Politik" was Egon Bahr. . Bahr claimed to have been on board the RAF Andover with Brandt from CGN to THF. Klaus Henning Rosen, head of Brandts office since 1976 contradicts this fact, and that Brandt wrote his speech " Now what belongs together, will grown together" whilst he was sat next to him. Bahr also claimed that he had met Horst Teltchik, advisor to Helmut Kohl at Templehof. Herr Kohl or Mr cabbage was not well received by the large crowd at Kennedy platz on the 10th November. Kohl dismissed his bodyguards and he abd two others took a taxi to Checkpoint Charlie to see the events there, before returning to Cologne / Bonn from Berlin.

The question remains. Where was Egon Bahr on the 9th and 10th November 1989.??

Lance Shippey

March 1986. East German lawyer Prof. Dr. Wolfgang Vogel and his second wife Helga left his office in East Berlin, and transferred to West Berlin's TXL airport, where they boarded a flight to FRA and transferred to a SAA B744 to JNB via SAL. On arrival in JNB they flew to Sun City, where he was to attempt to release Nelson Mandela from prison in a "Swap". It proved unsuccessful and he would return to East Berlin after his four days in the sun empty handed.

F.W. de Klerk would release Mandela from prison in 1990. On June 11th 1990, Willy Brandt hosted a reception for Nelson Mandela after having invited him to Bonn after his release.

The incredible story of the attempted release of Mandela can be read by searching "A spectacular attempt to release Mandela from prison under the Apartheid regime" by Prof. Dr DR.Ulrich van der Heyden.


Lance Shippey

There were a few odd flights in some years from the GDR, Berlin Schonefeld, to Frankfurt. Not by Interflug or Lufthansa, but by Aeroflot. Here's a timetable from 1972. I wonder which way they went; being one of the Allies they could presumably use the Corridor.

su72-03.jpg (2365×1300) (timetableimages.com)

WHBM.
thanks for the copy of the t/b. The Vogel's were on a TXL/FRA at 13.00 and connected with SA253 FRA/JNB at 17.25 The flight took 15hrs via SAL. They went to Sun City from JNB by helicopter. I am not sure who paid for the flights

Lance.