Difference being the two cars you mention were successful, whereas the VC-10 was a commercial failure.

I don't want to be too serious on what is a lighthearted thread, but I'm amazed how often these "bring back the x" ideas pop up. Often
the 757.
Manufacturers fight for and argue over 1% fuel burn or 100kg empty weight. Proposing something that burns 5% more is like giving the
competition the keys to the safe. In fact the idea would be canned before the brochure is dry, and the marketing team sent to the gulag
for reeducation.
Certification? Well you could always try the FAA, they seem to be a soft touch.

No on this flight a freebee for a weekend home, and though I lived nearer BHX, I had to go to Gatwick to check-in, then get bused to BHX for the departure; and yes non stop, arrival there were issues at BHX with handling, customs and on departure catering, the girls managed some excellent meals between M&S and a local Chinese restaurant. The decision to non stop was a the last fuel etc calculation as I recall overhead Nairobi.

And whose fault was that?

I believe the VC10 was not a speculative initiative by Vickers; it was a response to a series of parameters drawn up by BOAC and others. BOAC/BA only more recently have found out that "off the peg" designs can be accommodated within its operations. If they had discovered this earlier, we might have been spared the horrid One Eleven.

Granted the VC10 was a noisy beast, but only on the outside; memory might be playing tricks but I think it must be the quietest aircraft I have experienced as a passenger. I flew in it quite often as pax and once when grounded in FRA (trouble with the eponymous engine on DH104) had breakfast with Flaps Rendall, a charming man and excellent company, so I'm rather attached to the old Vickers, but I think it is best left to remain a fond recollection in the memory of those who were privileged to have been associated with it.

Retired BA/BY. made a noise like ripping calico. totally out of proportion to its grunt ! Not sure about the calico but the noise/power disproportion could be applied to the Leonides in the piston Provost too. There seem to be a lot of old people contributing to this thread!

The RAE Bedford VC10 (XX914) was indeed ex BCAL, and served until July 83, when it was retired, and donated its tail to the first RAF VC10 tanker,ZA141, which suffered in flight damage during flight testing...
RB211 testbd G-AXLR did fly until September 1975, when it flew to Kemble to be scrapped, beyond economic repair...

Gypsy.

What's horrid about the One-Eleven? It had nothing to do with BA/BEA.

There are a lot of us oldies who have fond memories of the VC10
https://www.vc10.net/Memories/Operat...African_routes

The VC10 was a beautiful looking thing but was a commercial disaster, and BOAC had to be financially compensated by the Govt even to order the second batch, they wanted Boeing 707's with which they could make a profit. As to bringing the VC10 back, not going to happen I'm afraid as the modern equivalents such as the A321XLR would eat it for breakfast financially and commercially. There is a reason why Airbus have to date made and sold 5, 243 A321 whereas Vickers/BAC only made 54 VC10's.

What on earth Vickers and BOAC thought they were doing when they specified an airliner for "Empire routes" and ignored the Atlantic is beyond me. I know it was a long time ago but even then the sun had set on the vast majority of the British Empire and this should have been so obvious to BOAC and, more importantly, Vickers.

There is one thing I remember from 30 years in the business: manufacturers should listen to the airlines, but not too much.
If a plane turns out to be a dog the operator can get out after five years or so.
The builder is stuck with its enormous investment and support commitments: a drag on the company for twenty years.
No one airline has the knowledge and experience of the manufacturer

During our BFTS course at Linton, over the winter of 1977/8 we were grounded for about a fortnight due to freezing fog over snow and nothing moved on the airfield. Then one morning we heard what seemed to be the sound of a “mighty” Viper starting up. We all rushed to see who was brave enough, only to quickly realise it was the sound of the automatic water boiler on the crew room wall kicking in.....

And outsold the VC by 4 to 1, making it relatively successful.

Again it was a loud one though!

A lot of people operated the BAC1,11 and I don't dispute that it was a model more commercially successful than the VC10 but I believe BA had a substantial input in its design/production. I used to commute to Germany nearly every week and in the turbulent financial times of the '70s, we were encouraged to fly/buy British which, most conveniently meant BA and their One Elevens. I hated them. Mind you, I have to admit that my recollections may be a little jaundiced by the cabin service. At the time, Trust House Forte had the catering contract and included in this was Arc de Triomphe wine, a glass of which was handed back to the hostess by my companion with the comment "This horse is pregnant". I rebelled and transferred to LH and their Boeings; so much nicer.

A few years later when in Nigeria, I was obliged to be a pax with Okada and a 1,11. Hairy isn't the word.

Odd that pruners can tell us our aircraft industry “is all but dead”, harking back to supposed glory days when we built 50 odd VC10’s -but ignoring the significant parts of many thousands of airliners we do build.

The only 1-11s I flew on were Dan-Air's and I enjoyed those flights very much...

BEA had no input into the original 1-11 design, but their interfering influence undersized the Trident 1.

Gypsey queen
the 1-11 was launched in 1961. Lainch customer was British United airways. It was sold to four US operators.
The series 500 first flew in 1967. It was sold to BEA who would have preferred the 737 but the government forced them to by British
.

I thought the Supers made money on the North Atlantic as it was preferred to the 707 for quietness and service but what do I know.?

Victor Golf you're dead right

I think you'll find there are very good reasons why no clean sheet design in the last three decades has put the engines on the tail.

I was on the last VC10 flight from Heathrow on 30th March 1981. It was a LHR - LHR charter and cost me £32, as I recall. We assembled in Tech Block 'A' and were seen off by a liveried silver band. We got on board in the maintenance area and taxi'd live across the Eastchurch Crossing. I don't think many people can say they've done that! We then routed up to Manchester for a low approach and go-around, then up to Prestwick for the same, followed by a steep turn around Ailsa Craig (looked like a jewel set on a cushion) then a (very!) low pass at about 250kt back along the Prestwick runway. We then climbed to height over the Irish Sea for lunch before another low pass at Bristol - (Filton, not the one up the hill), where Brian Trubshaw was apparently in the Tower. He had been the test pilot on the prototype. Then back East, for a low pass at Weybridge, the aircraft's birthplace, but the crew demurred to do that one, the vis wasn't great and they didn't fancy 'plunging about the North Surrey countryside at 200kt, looking for the place'. Can't say I blame them. Then back to London Airport (beware imitations). Definitely the most comfortable transport aircraft I've ever flown in, though hopelessly un-economic, sadly.
You're right, there's a lot of old people on this thread!

TOO