Tora! Tora! Tora!
 

Watching Tora! Tora! Tora! this morning and what a cracking film for pre CGI!
Lot's of Harvards/Texans around but also plenty of apparently original aircraft that don't look like models.
They got their moneys worth out of the exploding P40s though.
Anyway, won't spoil the ending for you.

All the Japanese aircraft were converted T-6s or BT-13s, some of which are still flying - Gary Numan had one of Zeros flying in the UK in the 1990s.

The P-40s and B-17s were real other than those aircraft blown up for the film, though the B-17 landing with one wheel retracted was a genuine accident; there were also some real Catalinas/Cansos used.

Tora Tora Tora was so much better than Pearl Harbour. I was nearly sick when the the American pilot was told that we would win the war quicker with a few more like him!
A Night To Remember was better than Titanic.
And The Longest Day was ten times better than that Private Ryan rubbish.

Even at age 12 when it came out I was very disappointed, blatantly obviously Harvards buzzing about, ridiculously unrealistic battle sequences, multi-repeated shots throughout for cheapness and filler, hammy acting and a lousy stroryline.
I didn't think it had any redeeming features at all until it got to the end of the credits.

It's not very vivid in my mind, but I remember the very early sequence of a civilian training flight in an open cockpit aircraft. They flying along sedately, until the instructor looks around and becomes aware that they are surrounded by military aircraft with unfamiliar national markings. I especially like the slight edge in her voice as she says "I have control" and GTFO. It's part of the quite nice pacing of the film from peace-time on Sunday to the middle of a war.

Just by editing a few of your words - that would be my summing up of Dunkirk (2018) LOL.

I thought Tora Tora was an OK war movie,I would certainly put in the top 20 of war films I have seen.

If you didnt like Tora tora tora what on earth did you think of the CGI dominated remake which made aircraft look like birds or insects when formation flying about a foot apart and pulling turns that would break a Zero into pieces with the G forces.

Its obvious in any war film that you cannot get a fleet of real period aircraft unless they are from the winning side and even then its hard . 633 squadron used real Mosquitos in 196X but today??? So using Havards was a decent idea after all few people today have ever seen a Zero or a Val whereas many have seen Spitfires and P51s.

The lead up with the dateline muddle and communications screw up are all very real as is the dilemma the politicians and diplomats find themselves in.

Dunkirk was disappointing-the aviation bits were rubbish especially the 1 for per ten miles glide ratio of the Spitfire and the entire Luftwaffe encapsulated in one He111 but as I said these rare warbirds are just that -rare. I think compared to earlier versions about Dunkirk it was good in focusing on some individual aspects but the cast do not look remotely military whereas the 1960s version was full of actors who had either been in the war, done national service and I think in some cases had actually been in Dunkirk-ie they looked and walked and marched like soldiers . I am never too sure why such a fuss is made of Dunkirk-import for sure but a pretty ignominious feat -Churchill himself made that point right after it and no doubt if the geography had been reversed it would have been all about the French running away (well at least in the Sun and daily mail versions)



All in alla decent film without too much Good ol USA nonsense

If you get the chance to see "303 Sqn", the Polish-produced film, go. I couldn't fault it, either the story, the CGI or the mock-ups. Sadly, it doesn't seem to be about much. My local cinema screened it for one night only. Over half the audience were Polish, and that's in the West Midlands, UK.

I think the Tora Japanese aircraft looked pretty convincing. Way better than the T-6s painted up as Luftwaffe fighters for several other films. It's a good film, bit long perhaps but then it avoids that breathless pace that seems to bedevil more modern films - and I can't bear CGI.

The 'Zekes' (Zeros) in the Tora film were heavily modified Harvard IVs with changes to wing, fuselage, canopy and tail profiles which achieved a reasonable reproduction of the shape of the original. These replicas were actually slightly larger than the original overall but, obviously, had much reduced performance. They maintained the original Harvard engine but had a three-bladed propeller from an Otter, run through a 2:1 reduction gearing. This gave them a significantly different sound to a standard Harvard but also more power. In a display you could enter a loop from only 150 KIAS and maintain looping energy throughout. However, rolling at low speeds in a half-Cuban 8 would generate very large sideslip angles for rolls in one direction (I cannot remember which). I know of one of the airframes that, at the time, was based at Kalamazoo which had the fin offset by a few degrees to improve the directional stability characteristics. On the ground, propeller tip clearance was not great so you had to always fly a three-point landing. In addition, the mainwheel oleo pressures were increased to give more prop tip clearance although the increased nose-up pitch attitude on the ground meant that you could not fill the fuel tanks quite so full.

The Harvard Formation Team at North Weald operated one, N15798, in 1988 and 1989. Gary Numan's aircraft was a standard Harvard IIB, G-AZSC, painted in a Japanese colour scheme (white with red roundels) and was often flown as a pair with the 'Zeke' replica. That Zeke was a very reliable airframe which, 18 years after the film, said a lot for the standard of the modification. At the end of the 1989 season this Zeke replica went to New Zealand. Very happy memories of 'The Squadron' at North Weald in the 1989 season!

Rgds

'Harvard 5'

I forgot about Dunkirk. I downloaded it and it took me several weeks before I watched the whole film as it was so bad. There was no continuity at all and I couldn't empathise with the actors. It wasn't a patch on the old Dunkirk film with Kenneth Moore and think how much better cameras are available now.

I'm dreading any remake of the Dambusters. I suppose they will use B17s with American crews and the bouncing bomb will be designed by Tom Cruise, who will fall in love with some dozy Yank girl with fake body parts. Don't let them do it.

Kenneth Moore wasn't in Dunkirk - that was John Mills. Moore was good in Sink the Bismarck though.

I think Tora! Tora! Tora! is the best movie ever made about the Pearl Harbor attack - and by a considerable margin (especially when compared to "Pearl Harbor", which was total crap). It's documentary style never bothered me, although apparently left many other viewers cold. But it is historically very accurate (especially by Hollywood standards) - even most of the 'oh come on' scenes really happened (such as the band rushing to finish playing the "Star Spangled Banner" before running for cover, and the scene where the lady flight instructor finds herself in the middle of the Japanese formation). I took a vacation to Honolulu a few months ago, and a couple of my wife's family members joined us. One is a 30-something Swiss national who joined me for a day tour of Pearl Harbor. Due in part to his age and nationality, he didn't know much about the Pearl Harbor attack, so we watched Tora! Tora! Tora! the night before to educate him on the story.
As I recall, on it's original release Tora! Tora! Tora! didn't do well domestically (with many complaints about the slow pace and documentary style), but it did quite well in Japan (apparently they like it when their side wins :E)
That mirrors my reaction to Dunkirk almost exactly - the non-linear story line drove me up a wall, and I found it hard to really care about most of the characters.

Totally agree - worst war film since the Rambo nonsense. The one I do keep coming back to although it is not a film is the Pacific series by Tom Hanks and Spielberg. It is just outstanding film making.

T0RA Harvards
 

Training in Canada my Log Book shows I flew Harvard 4 20292.
According to Fletcher and Macphail s Bible of the Harvard became N2047 for Tora Tora Tora.

And 20292 is still flying with the CAF as a Kate AND flew in Pearl Harbour...

Cornelia Fort
 

The former Fighter Collection P-40C 41-13297, now flown by The Collings Foundation, is actually a Pearl Harbor survivor - it had been in a landing accident a few weeks earlier and survived the attack on Wheeler Field with no further damage. It then crashed early in 1942. Substantial wreckage was recovered in 1985 by the Curtiss Wright Historical Association along with major parts from two earlier P-40 accident sites on Oahu and the rebuild took place, all three airframes being acquired by TFC along the way. I believe TFC still owns the other two wrecks (39-285 and 39-287) which will perhaps reappear as flyers in years to come.

treadigraph,

To be a pedant, I believe that the aircraft to which you refer was actually a P-40B. I believe that it survived because it was in a hangar and only the flight line was bombed.

Rgds

L

You are right, it is indeed a B! :O