Vulcan Crew Briefing?
 

Evening All

In the operational days of the Vulcan, how long did take the crew to do the preflight planning & briefing before take- off ?

Standard show time was take-off -3 hours. Captain would have gone to Met first. The nav plotter, depending on his confidence and competence might arrive as much as 4 hours before.

Detailed planning would have taken place in the days before.

The best part of the briefing was take off - 2hrs, in the aircrew feeder

Then the replan, delay meal, scrub, and debrief😀

In my experience good crews would all talk to each other during the planning phase both on the day and, as PN says, mostly in the case of the two navs, a day or so beforehand. The captain, unless it was a GSU trip, would then say "Do we all know what we're doing?" then off to the joys of the feeder.

Put another way, the Captain's job was the safe execution of the sortie requirements of the rear crew, planned as economically as possible or by the plotter. The plotter would also allow for pilots' playtime at the end of the sortie. During low level flying the pilots did have to work a bit harder.
​​​​​

If a captain knew a week before his regular co-pilot, say, would not be available, when would he look for a replacement? On the day of the flight, or earlier?

Another question please!

All aircrew needed to carry out various training (continuity training I think it was called) in order to keep on top form for their various responsibilities, and to learn to use new equipment or tactics I guess. How was this managed? For example, was each crew aware of the training they required and, say, a monthly meeting would be held for the five of them to decide how to fit the training into whatever flights they were due to carry out.

A copilot, as it happens, was the one non-essential member of a constituted crew. If a regular copilot was not available then the most suitable copilot would be allocated by the sqn planner but let's look at numbers. We have 11 to start with less our 'sickie' and in the QRA days two involved, and 2 on leave. That leaves 6. We can discount the one or two that flew late the night before, 2 others already rostered to fly that day and the one rostered to fly early the next day. Typically that means the replacement self-selects.

Crew Basic Training Requirements (BTRs) were defined for a 6 month period and it was up to the Captain to decide when they should be completed. He was also responsible for making sure that the navigators' and AEO's trainng requirements had been achieved. Woe betide any Captain whose crew members failed to achieve their BTRs! This included Target Study, EW training, nuclear weapon rig drills etc. etc.

In 1977 we didn't have any of this girly 'detailed planning days in advance' nonsense. On the day of flight, the pilots would go to the Met Off at around T/O - 4 hours to decide where we would fly to optimise the sortie time available. Back to the Main Briefing Room and we would tell the rear crew the mission outline - usually hi-lo-hi to wherever the LL Wx was best. The Nav Rad would have to sort out the LL targets (usually a minimum of 2), the co-pilot would agree the visual IPs and the Nav Plot would then get on with constructing and planning the overall route and flight plan. Meanwhile the Captain would check all NOTAMs and any new orders, the co-pilot would prepare the 50 thou IP-to-target maps and do the take-off performance planning whilst waiting for the Nav Plot's timings; the AEO would also check whether any Fighter Affil. or EW runs could be included. Gone were the days of the pilots acting as glorified taxi drivers for the lower deck occupants - the sortie was a crew event! Which often included some CT when we returned, but probably no more than an instrument approach and a visual circuit for each pilot.

At about T/O -2:15 we would hold the Crew Brief; if the Captain wasn't self-authorising, the Auth would turn up to listen to the brief and sign the Auth Sheets.

At about T/O - 2:00, the crew would go to the aircrew feeder for a pre-flight meal and to collect the in-flight rations, then go to the changing room to change into immersion suits and to collect bone domes, life preservers and PECs. Then onto the crew bus to be taken to the jet, aiming to be there at T/O - 1:00 at the latest.

After the F700 reading, we'd get on board to do the pre-flight checks whilst the Captain did the walkround. The co-pilot did the fuel levels / CG calculation using the slide rule, which had to be completed before his half of the challenge/response checks were called for. The lower deck did whatever checks they had to do, while the AEO was the checklist reader.

Normal engine start was at abut T/O - 0:20 as there were quite a few after start checks to be completed. Then taxy out was at T/O - 0:10.

A smoothly worked system which was also great fun.

At Scampton, if we landed after the OM bar was open, we'd stop by for a 'crew round' in the Scruffs' Bar. Beer was 20p per pint, so everyone chipped in £1 and we quaffed 5 pints each. Bear in mid that this was in the 1970s and we simply didn't know any better.

I had a wonderful 3 years on the Tin Triangle at Sunny Scampton - probably the best QoL time in my RAF career. Very little niff naff and triv., we were trusted just to get on with things. Our Boss could spot the old 'QRA queens' who weren't much interested in tactical low level flying, fighter affil. and EW runs and soon advised them to think again! The rest of us competed for good bomb/nav comp results aiming to be selected for Giant Voice, which meant several weeks in Louisiana, or for Red Flag at Nellis.

Happy days!!

No monthly meeting. As I said above, typically the plotter would put the sortie together from individual inputs from the rest of us. Quite a few trips were determined by engineering needs. The aircraft needed ECM certification or bomb sight calibration. The aircraft offered was loaded with practice bombs so a different sortie had to be planned.

For the rest w e would bid to fit in a number of bombing runs, navigation stages, circuit requirements, fighter affiliation etc and fit in as many of these as possible.

Glider 90,

In the late '60's and early '70's (certainly at Waddo), we were expected to appear in Ops. four hours before take-off to plan the sortie. Generally the Capt. would check/pick up met. info. before this. A fairly long time scale but you must remember that there was a pre-flight meal involved as well !!

Bill

But sorting out was from a selection of targets that had already been prepared in the days before the flight and had not been attacked in the preceding period.

Thanks BEagle and everyone else, i lived under the flightpath of the Scampton based Vulcans in the 70's & 80's so have a great interest in the aircraft and it's operations.

My thanks too. Very informative.

As an ex single-seat nuclear delivery pilot I find this thread fascinating.

dook,

And so you should ! I remember the brilliant exchange posting to a "RN Scimitar" squadron many years ago, "nuke" capable" and great fun! Did not seem to take as long to brief as when I was on Vulcans, but things do change (and I went with them!).

Happy Christmas to all "mates", and evreyone else on PPrune!

Bill

I know, spelling mistake!! Blame the malt !!
Bill

Bombing Range. There were a number of ranges we used and they changed over time. They were radar tracking sites with targets chosen by Strike Command near the low level route. They included Dunkeswell, West Freugh, Gernish, Ouston, Lindholme and Tumby.

Range slots were every 10 minutes and for two ranges you needed slots that fitted your low level route times. Low level entry times were also 10 minute slots. As bombing slots were allocated to wings it was often difficult coordinating the timing.

They problem with a low level target was it guaranteed a low, high speed, noisy overflight. If it was an exercise and the target was near a farm you can imagine the noise over several hours.

Latterly most LL attacks in the UK were scored using the F95 camera.

Before the late '70s, the 'main route' was a narrow LL corridor linking the small LFAs and the odd 'bomb plot' location. Fortunately that was all slung out in the late '70s when the UK LFAs were extended and the LL route was considerably widened. We could than plan sensible LL routes between visual points, so that visual map reading could back up the mysterious incantations uttered by the lower deck as they slaved over steaming '50s era ironmongery backed up with H2S. We also created a library of targets; some were visually significant whereas others were simply L/L positions, designed to test the offset bombing skills of the lower deck. Some (weaker) crews would still only attack 'direct' targets, whereas others worked as a team using 'all aids' bombing techniques. A few grumbling old QRA queens weren't up to this though, as they didn't like change...:ooh: They could just about cope with EP 28-31 east coast routes, terminating with a Tumby bomb plot run, but that was about it.

In the hour or so before flight, co-pilots would now have to draw the 1/2 mill maps from LL entry point to climb out, rather than using the dinosaurs' pre-printed booklets. Then the IP-to-target 50 thou maps, having previously told the navigators where the visual IPs were. Normally LL routes were planned for still-air, with fatigue-saving transit speeds and around 320KIAS for the bomb run. In fact the techniques were much like Hunter/Bucc/F-4 LL planning, with the added benefit of an accurate NBS. But at lower IAS.

One of my favourite visual IPs was the 'Composite Signals Organisation Station' at Trickey Warren (RAF Culmhead as was) in the Blackdowns. A cluster of white buildings filled with GCHQ spooks right in the centre of the old RWs, it could be seen for miles - and we knew that they'd never complain about the racket of 4 x Olympus overhead at 300(ish) feet as we started the IP-to-Target runs...:E

Few trips ended up at an air weapons range in the late '70s and (apart from the odd exercise) virtually all bomb scores were derived from release point photos analysed by the Wing Weapons staff. If an attack resulted in a simulated impact outside the mandatory radius from target, a 'long bomb' report had to be written, explaining what had happened. So every bomb run was in fact an FRA - no reattacks were ever contemplated. Which really concentrated crew activity when the weather wasn't brilliant!


Great times, great fun too!

The original UK low level routes. In the mid-60s were BC/21, BC/23 and BC/24. These were non contiguous routes. They were replaced , as BEagle said, with the UK 'LL main route. The reason for such narrow fixed routes was the very poor visibility from the cockpit so they exercised procedural control to deconflict from other Vs.

I know of one long bomb in the US that resulted in the Nav Rad being summons to 1 Gp and an interesting with the AOC.

http://zkt.blackfish.org.uk/XD864/BoI.pdf

Go to pdf pages 55-58.

For Valiant Profile Flight 12th August 1960, 7 Squadron, Honington.

p55 - Air Traffic Control Flight Plan
p56 - Briefing/De-Briefing Proforma
p57 - Loading Sheet
p58 - Flight Authorisation Book
p89 describes the nature of the flight as 'Training 'Profile' Flight consisting of two Navigation Stages, each of over 800 miles and 4 simulated bombing attacks against UK Radar Bomb Score Units. Crew briefed on type and duration of exercise to be carried out by 'A' Flight Commander who instructed them to 'self brief'. This is appropriate for this type of routine exercise'.

From the Air Traffic Control Flight Plan I put together a simple map of the route. As I'm no navigator it is probably inaccurate but it's an effort!

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d5a3a3b95f.jpg
1. Wittering
2. 53.11N 00.32E North Sea off Skegness
3. 54.30N 01.20E Nr Dogger Bank off Whitby
4. 50.25N 04.08W Channel South of Plymouth
5. 56.32N 00.16E North Sea off Dundee
6. 55.52N 04.15W RBSU Glasgow
7. 54.58N 01.38W RBSU Gateshead
8. 60.52N 00.52W South Shetland
9. 53.12N 04.30W Anglesey
10. 53.26N 02.58W RBSU Liverpool
11. 52.15N 00.52W Northampton
12. 52.25N 00.45E RBSU Thetford
13. 52.32N 01.42E Channel off Lowestoft
14. 52.46N 01.12W Nr Loughborough
1. Wittering

Hipper, I note the flight was a Training Profile Flight. On the Vulcan we had a 1500 Mile TPF. I under it to be Typical Profile Flight. This was usually a 600 mile primary navigation flight, a 200 mile low level and a 700 mile secondary stage. This was a Hi Lo Hi but we also did a longer flight which was called a Hi Lo Hi.

I note the RBSU mentioned were Glenrun, Rainbelt, Rubycorn and Brantub. These were code names for the scoring units at Abbotsinch (Glasgow Airport), Haydock, probably Ouston, and Methwold. By 1963 they had reverted to clear names, Glasgow, Haydock and Ouston. Methwold had closed. The RBSU for London was Kenley and that might have moved from Methwold.
​

In the accident report posted by Hipper, on page 51 is the Flight Plan form. In Box N, beside MASTER GREEN is the code word EMBELLISH. What does that mean?

Thanks YS. I knew I had seen that before, but had forgotten what it meant. What's the equivalent for a deviating target?

None. Evasion was permitted only when target and interceptor were on a common frequency and evasion limits - changes of heading, height and speed - were within prescribed limits.

An embellished target was expected to maintain heading, height and speed.

When the V-Force still practised high level attacks against SAM defended targets we would fly an SAM evasive manoeuvre. Air defence fighters were not permitted to intercept the bombers within, I think, 50 miles, of their target in case the bomber began manoeuvring.

When I was at Eastern Radar(civil) in the 1980s,we would occasionally get a phone call from Neatishead,asking if a certain ASCOT VC10 that we were working over the North Sea,was willing to be 'embellished'? The pilots always readily agreed when asked.