Sud Aviation Vautour
 

Anyone know anything about this beast? I came across a mention of it in an article and Googled it but although it seems to have been quite a useful and important aircraft (especially to the French & Israeli's) it seems to have sunk without trace (the Ford Sierra of attack aircraft?)

Can anyone shed some light on it?

The Armee de l'Air had some at Istres when I was there 1957-8.

We weren't allowed to get close to them.

IAF Vantour
 

Here's what I wrote about the IAF Vantour's

Heimdall

A detachment of French Air Force Vautours went to the then Salisbury, Rhodesia in April 1960. I know because I had just signed on for the Royal Air force and I saw them at New Sarum. Walking past the quarters I saw a coloured member sitting in his room. The reception was only for whites. .

"coloured member"? That is some serious self-abuse there.

That's the only meaning I can take from that remark.

Remained in service in France until late seventies. I think I remember seeing one or two in flight while holidaying there with parents - possibly off Sete in either 76 or 77.

I remember seeing one as a kid at Entebbe, Uganda, in the very early 60s. I am surprised it didn't do better in foreign sales as it seems to me to be a pretty good Canberra replacement.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...24fac9e1dd.jpg
This is one from the London to Paris air race.

France's only nuclear capable bomber until the Mirage IV and could be mistaken for the Yakovlev 28 of the same era.
I believe production was funded by the US D of D and when they were withdrawn, some were flown to Sculthorpe for 'disposal' (or was that the Mystere IV of the same era?)

Two of my photos taken at AB Chateaudun Museum, France. July 2017 Unfortunately well worn being outside in the weather.https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...c9a5a8f409.jpg

AB Chateaudun Musee July 2017
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...3ff90ba867.jpg

AB Chateaudun Musee July 2017

Not much ability to rotate on takeoff, or flare for the landing? Hence the big skid at the tail.

I think I read the "skid" was actually an aerodynamic mod when they stretched the front end for the two man version?

There were certainly elderly French Mhystere IVs at Sculthorpe in the 1970s (forget exactly when) and I understood they were US-funded and had to be scrapped, rather than sold on to a possibly less desirable third party. I don't recall any Vautours there though.

French F-100s and T-33s, too, but I agree there don't seem to be any references to or photos of Vautours there.

I remember seeing them at Sculthorpe, along with F-100's and some others. Why was Sculthorpe used as a dumping/disposal field ? Also does anyone else see the Vautour as a mini version of the Douglas B-66 bomber ?

Yes - it wasn't a skid. It was a ventral fin added to improve directional stability.

No Vatours went to Sculthorpe to my knowledge. F100, T33 and Mystere funded by the MADP only.
A lot went to UK museums which explains why most small UK museums have a least a couple of these types as I think most went into the care of the USAFM.
The rest went to The USA bases in the UK as decoys (mainly Lakenheath and Upper Heyford) and to the range at Spadeadam. There were at least 3 or 4 Mysteres at Colinski airfield at Spade in the late 80's. I think the stuffed F100 on the pole at LKH is an ex AdA machine.

I think some were scrapped in situ at Sculthorpe.

It is indeed.

There was a general overview article & cutaway in Air Enthusiast 42, which occasionally comes up on eBay. One of the few technical histories in Englsh but only 14 pages.

Vautour IINs were deployed to Algeria in 1962 with ECTT 2/6 to interdict nocturnal arms supply flights, including intercepting DC-4 OO-ADK carrying arms from Stockholm. That legendary Swedish 'neutrality' at work again, as would occur frequently in the 1970s supplying southern African rebel groups.

Google Earth imagery of Spadeadam is nearly 10 years old and shows what I believe are eight Mysteres and four T-33s. There is also something that may be a MiG-21 or similar.

There was also the air defence version the Vautour IIN, which was still in service in the mid/late 1960s. I remember being intercepted more than once by them while trundling across France in a 2- or 4-ship of Hunters at M0.8 around FL420 en route from Norfolk to Malta. The Vautours, always I think in pairs, would do their intercept using the same mil radar UHF channel that we were on, and do a barrel roll around us before departing. Quite entertaining.

Caught a glimpse of a Mig 23 there in Sept 96 in one of the big concrete areas whilst doing an EW sortie in a C130. Think it might have moved on to a museum now though?

[QUOTE=DaveReidUK;10245397]I think some were scrapped in situ at Sculthorpe.

More than likely I guess. Don't know how many were actually delivered there in the first place.

I would expect someone somewhere has records.

Anyway, back to the Vautor, never actually saw one fly. They have always looked very 'french' to me, much like the French cars of the same period.
Interesting to compare the design to equivalents- IL28 and whatever the US design was (XB 51?) plus of course the Canberra. Also, although a bit heavier, the B47.

Looking at it again, yes it does look more like a MiG-23 - wings are swung back rather than a delta. I remember seeing a few Mysteres at Lakenheath to the north of the runway.

Sorry, need to correct for drift - well it is quite a windy day...

The name (French for vulture) seems somehow appropriate.

Typically French in choosing unconventional - two main undercarriage members in tandem taking up what could have been load space in the fuselage and weeny balancing outriggers, mounted in the jet pods rather than wingtips. Maybe the undercarriage layout caused the Vautour to look rather plump. With the tail being so close to the runway take-offs would needed to be longer than otherwise necessary?

Judging by the wiki article it was a reasonably effective jet for its time. Performance seems to be on a par with the Canberra (although it does mention needing water injection for the bomber variant to get airborne at max weight) and used for similar roles. Certainly the Israelis got some good use from it. It doesn't give much idea of handling and performance and I guess the A model wouldn't have fared well against single engined fighters.
Interesting that the bomber variant never had a radar which prompted the requirement for what turned out to be the Mirage IV. The weapons being aimed visually by the Nav who sat in the nose, much like the Canberra BI8. Not sure if he had an ejection seat?
It seems to me it was a bit of a compromise design based on what was available at the time that gave useful service until something better came along.

IIRC quite a few late 40's early 50's designs went for main undercarriage in the fuselage - both the B-47 and the U-2 depended on outriggers and a few of the Russians went the same way

Performance wise, it ran, or should that be flew, rings around the Canberra. Top speed 687mph at sea level and an initial climb rate of 11820 feet/sec. One Israeli Vautour even had an air-to-air kill against an Iraqi Hunter. I've only flown micro-lights but I know which aeroplane I would have chosen to go to war in. Interesting to read a previous post about some French ones visiting Rhodesia, because the one I previously mentioned seeing at Entebbe must have part of this visit. I wonder why it was a singleton I saw at Entebbe though.

I was in Libya during the Arab Isreali war and the Vautours were used to precision bomb Arab runways leaving them useless for fighter takeoffs but ok for Herc !!
I was there with 2 learjets and the Israelis took one of them out in Damascus:hmm:

I'm hoping you meant feet per minute!

Obviously had a bit of grunt though, presumably in a straight line. One does wonder what it was like at turning and g limits?

The more I read about it, the more I'm thinking it was quite an effective jet for it's time.

There's one as a gate guard at the Safran (Snecma) plant at Villaroche just outside Paris

Bit like the Harrier then.

The French copy everything. :O

This has been a very informative set of posts - thanks everyone

It does seem to have been a useful aircraft with decent performance - good job the French hadn't perfected (as they did later) their sales technique!!! Might not have seen so many Canberra rebuilds if they had