The BEA Vanguards were never fitted with uprated engines. The 953 had the same stronger structure specified by TCA for the 952. The 951s always were more restricted and never operated in all tourist class config

"with first offered one way but not the other. Not even any pattern to it - there are economy flights at business times and ones with first class at off peak hours. Possibly it was something to do with crewing."

You expect something LOGICAL from BEA? They always did whatever they liked and what suited them on the day

Bit late to this. I suspect accounts of changed engines are what was done on the Viscount fleet.

The six 951s were built first, in 1959, and for some reason hung around until 1961 to be delivered. Weybridge then turned to the Trans Canada order, and built those into 1961, when they then did the main BEA 953 single class fleet, which were delivered pretty much straight away and thus came along with the earlier ones. BEA operated the first passenger flight two weeks after first delivery, which makes one think some considerable training had been done while they still belonged to Vickers.

In 1966 BEA were running 13 Vanguards a day on Glasgow to London, which is way more seats than BA provide nowadays 58 years later.

All the 951s were delivered late because during the latter stages of testing serious compressor problems occured with the Tyne engines which were resolved by the time 952s and 3s entered flight test

Yes, but in those days, the train took all day. :O

By 1968, the 13 daily Vanguards had gone done to 7 plus 5 Tridents, so capacity was already reducing significantly.

Interesting also that in those days GLA/LHR had about a third more flights than EDI/LHR, whereas nowadays there's little difference in capacity.

BEA were forced to replace some Vanguard services with Comets and Tridents starting 66 due to competition from British Eagle and British United 1-11s on the route starting 66. BUA from LGW

The T3 crosswind limit (can't remember the T1s and 2s) was less than the Vanguard's and on more than one occasion before their withdrawal from pax service a Vanguard would sub for a T3 on LHR-EDI when a SW gale was outside limits for R13/31 prior to the construction of R25.

Yes, I remember when the Comets came in on LHR/EDI to compete with the 1-11s. I'm pretty sure Tridents only served GLA until a few years later - certainly no TRDs to EDI in that 1968 timetable.

I've written before about being in Edinburgh in the 1970s when the new runway was planned and built (in surprisingly short time compared to how these drag on for years nowadays). It was strongly argued that the old short runway (13/31 ?) was unable to handle Tridents. Once construction was agreed however they started to filter in. The last Vanguard service, fractionally into BA times, was June 1974, and the London service was then all Tridents. I don't think they were Trident 3s. The Shuttle to London, Trident first sections and backups, started in summer 1976, a year before the new "Trident capable" runway even opened.

The T3 was no stranger to EDI. In my log book are several entries confirming this fact during 1977-78.

Here's a description of the Shuttle service (including use of T3s) from Shell Aviation News:

BA Shuttle 1977

I was actually describing the earlier 1970s and the transition from Vanguards. Were T3s common at Edinburgh before the new runway opened in early 1977 ?

You've got me wondering now, WHBM. I've got a reasonably strong memory of Vanguards (the fleet I was on) doing EDIs when the wind was outside Trident limits but maybe that was for T1s rather than 3s. Apologies if I've mis-remembered. My T3 flights all used the 'new' R25.

Yes, there was a mix of Vanguards and initially Comets but later Tridents in the early/mid 70s that I often used on ID90s to visit my folks.

Sadly I missed out on the Comet, but managed a jumpseat once on the T3 where we landed on what was then 13.

I remember flying on a BEA Trident3 from LHR to GLA Easter weekend !969, then heading up to INV on a BEA Viscount with f/b seats with a table! Not on all seats though, only the front few seats. (one for the Scots on here! I was sitting beside the Corries!)

Just to highlight BEA Trident 3's entered service 1971....I guess you were most likely on a 1C or maybe a 2E - ?

Apologies I had to look up the Corries!
The Corries were a Scottish folk group that emerged from the Scottish folk music revival of the early 1960s.
They are particularly known for the song "Flower of Scotland", which has become an unofficial national anthem of Scotland.

Did they send you homeward, to think again ? :O

Back to Vanguards, and the Air Canada ones had first class, as likewise did their very large Viscount fleet. Was this at the front or the back ?

The TCA/Air Canada Vanguards also had the first class at the back, as it was quieter. :O

Great article here by Jack Desmarais (of Ace McCool and Mudguard fame, whom I had the pleasure of meeting once) about the Canadians' experience with the Vanguard.