Yes, I believe so...........

I dont remember Pat Shea Simmonds having a beard.However I was at the same Prep School as his Kids Robert and George,Charlie having gone elsewhere.I did my Flying Scholarship in 1962/63 at Wiltshire School of Flying under the Instruction of John Heaton ,the one eared CFI,who used to freewheel Jackaroos and any John Isaacs Aeroplanes over the lower Hangar Roof dropping floor bags on those below.There were magic old WW2 Instructors with names like "Sprocket" Spencer Smith,"Ramsay"Smith,and the redoubtable Bill Leary,whose wife "Tickle" ran the cafe,plus others I cant remember or flew with.Having learnt to fly I used to return some weekends and fly the Parachute Club,under a tall blonde haired Yank known as "Aces",in a Jackaroo with the side doors removed.The static lines were attached to metal bulkeads inside the cockpit,and the Instructor sat beside me with 2 studes in the back.It took over 30 minutes to get above 5000ft,then a throttle off spiral descent to land before the chutists-this used to regularly blow the exhaust gaskets."ZT" was all black in those days and rested engineless in the hangar owned by Charles Boddington.Also "APAM used to rest in the hangar unflown.The Zion Koenig was there as well as about 3 or 4 Proctors.The Jackaroos I flew in 1963 were :- G-AOEX<OAP<OIX<OIW<OIR<OAJ.In 64 they were temporarilly grounded after one spun in over Chilbolton,and the ASI had to be moved from left side of cockpit to far right,so that the Instructor could see it from behind.The Stude was killed and the large Dutch Instructor survived,as I recall.The Army Flying Club from Old Sarum,used to shoot Pheasants over Inkpenn Ridge from a Jackaroo ,with the Cockpit sides off, with Land Rover and Dogs on the ground-I seem to remember it was a Major Peter Kent in charge,but great fun was had in these now nearly extinct aeroplanes!!I think Pat Shea Simmonds helped design and test fly them for the Airfield Owner and Boss,Sqn Ldr Doran Webb.Other characters were Ken Voss who also parachuted and owned a very nice Emeraude as did Luella Selka who also drove a dove grey MGA and often offered a lift to us kids into Andover!!!!Other Instructors were Ted Clowes who then flew at Wallop,as did Joe Ruprecht(Ex WW2 Polish Ace).Various DogFights were staged near Shaftesbury,to encourage their Tiger Moth to get airborne.Poor Ted later flew out to sea in a FRADU Hunter never to be seen again in the late 70s.Very happy and Fun days!!!!!!
One final memory was that "ZT" had a Chipmunk Gipsy 10/2 fitted and metal prop,which both Boddingtons used for Air Racing,but never flew during the time I was there,and the engine had been removed.Also a Magister was in bits in one of the nissen huts.

As a slight aside, I used to sit around with my mother in the late 50's early 60's whilst my "Uncle" Jim attempted to obtain his PPL on the Jackaroo. I can remember at one stage there being three Mosquito's parked by the control tower, which if memory serves me had been sold/were being sold to Jordan. I think that I have some photo's somewhere and must have a dig and delve.

Thank you for all the information and I'm glad that the topic was of interest. The gentleman in question was Ron Prizeman and his funeral was today. Here is one paragraph from a tribute that one of his sons read, that may amuse:

Pax, I was going to ask. Bless him and RIP.

Delving into my old paperwork,I see Thruxton was under "Western Air Training" in 1962,becoming Wiltshire School of Flying later in 63.I think Denis Neville still owns one of the only Jackaroos left in the UK??Most were converted back to Tiger Moth Spec.With regards to the 3 Mosquitos,there were in the 80s 3 burnt out wrecks still,just about identifiable by their Centre Sections and U/C mounts still in the long grass just north of the now Grain store old Hangar.Maybe removed after the Race Circuit was developed,but these were never sold and burnt in situ.Very Sad!!!??Of course the Jackaroo was always known as the "Thruxton Jackaroo".

My very first powered flight (not counting passenger flying) was a joyride in a Jackaroo at Thruxton; 60 minutes of total bliss and I can still remember every minute of it, although not exactly when, or who the pilot was. Probably in 1960/61. I had a gliding Silver C (Lasham), but this was exciting and different. It launched me into a career in the aviation industry now fast approaching its, and/or my end.

I blame that b****y Jackaroo for the fact that I spent last Tuesday in a large room in Germany, with 175 other victims, undergoing death by Powerpoint as low-quality European officials turn aviation safety into an ever-tightening spiral of over-complicated, self-defeating bureaucracy, each Regulation produced to correct the errors of its predecessors, and each one more badly thought through, and more badly drafted than the last.

PS Please ignore the above, sorry for the drift. I'll have a strong drink now to make it better.

Jackaroo is an Australian term for a trainee farmhand, so it could be that the perceived market was outback sheep and cattle stations needing a simple, rugged aircraft for getting around the property,doing odd jobs and taking the kids to school?

With De Havilland Australia producing the Drover (named after the Australian equivalent of a cowboy), and Jackaroo inferring a small or junior worker, the inference is that it would be something smaller and cheaper to run.

Some more details on the accident from the MoA's 1964 Accidents to Aircraft survey:

"During a dual practice forced landing on the aerodrome, the aircraft suddenly stalled while turning at a height of about 500 ft. It entered a spin and this continued until the aircraft hit the ground. There was no fire. The student pilot was sitting in the left hand front seat, and the instructor was sitting behind him; because of this, the instructor was unable to see the airspeed indicator, which was in front of the student. Furthermore, when the instructor attempted to take control, the student pilot could not understand him when he said "Let go, I have control", because no intercom was fitted. The student did not let go of the controls, but continued with his efforts to recover from the spin, until the aircraft hit the ground. The report on this accident was published by HMSO as CAP 233."

The location here is identified as Thruxton aerodrome, though of course that's not far from Chilbolton There may be some confusion with the accident that destroyed another Jackaroo, G-APAI, also in April 1964 (on the 8th), which did occur at Chilbolton.

The report also shows both the student and instructor surviving, albeit with serious injuries.

Prizeman's family told me that the idea for the Jackaroo came from an instructing airfield where they wanted to make it more economical than using the 2-seater Moth.

It was only later that the crop conversion was made. However, the word 'jackaroo' to indicate someone in training would be appropriate and could be how the name came about.

In the mid 1960s a group of us tried to form a flying group and as most had no licence I recruited a colleague as instructor/member.
The two group leaders, who were PPL holders, bought a Jackaroo without reference to the rest of us and the instructor withdrew as the conversion made instruction impossible in his opinion, since there were no instruments for the instructor - and his view forward to the right was compromised. It seems he was all too right, but happily he didn't flight test the problems he foresaw.

I find it interesting that whereas the Jackaroo seems to be regarded as a complete dog, the Fox Moth with the same engine and theoretical 3 pax capacity was highly regarded as an efficient aircraft. Different times I guess.

G-APAP was at Upavon when I was stationed there. On occasions G-APAM would also be available. I will not disagree with earlier comments but AP definitely was the tug in residence in my time. I left Upavon in March 73. I have it in one of my logbooks too.

Mechta,

I know the origin of the word Jackaroo (and its non-PC version, Jillaroo ;))

What I was wondering was how an Australian name was chosen for a British aircraft?

I42,
Yes, I'd always wondered about that myself.
A couple of explanations offered on here so far cause me to go - 'hmm', but that's about it.

If the intention was to market it to Outback station owners, then that clearly failed.
I stand to be corrected, but they didn't sell out here at all.
Such a machine may have had a chance in the thirties but definitely not in the fifties.

As for 'Jackaroo' hoping to align itself with the very dubious success of the DHA Drover, well...
Admittedly, they had in common a De Havilland heritage, relatively simple rugged airframes and used the bulletproof Gipsy Majors for noise.
They were both marginal performers as well, so there may be something to it.
.

Of course then it would have been competing (probably unsuccessfully) against the Fox Moth.

I had wondered about the Drover connection too.

Perhaps they were hoping to tag on the coat tails of that other, very successful British aircraft with an Australian name! ;)

GGR155

Hi GGR. That would by 1972 have been the Wyvern Army Gliding Club, which moved from Netheravon to Upavon in 1972, bringing PAP with them after RAFGSA Moonrakers closed down at the end of 1971. Ralph Jones would have dropped in to do repair assessment and air tests in PAM. By then he was mostly using it to commute Thruxton/Compton Abbas (which he ran with John Thorne). The 'commute' down the A30 was done almost irrespective of weather - don't ask me how I know...

I didn't think the Blackburn Billabong was THAT successful.

I always thought that the Jackaroo was an Australian modification for the Tiger Moth, and the Thruxton was the Canadian modification was the tandem enclosed cockpit.

Herod,

Try the next letter of the alphabet! ;)

Stationair,

The Canadian Tiger Moth was only ever known as the DH 82c. Canopy, gear legs further forward, heater (?), electric starter (?) and an unspung tailwheel. A member of my gliding club rebuilt one with open cockpits. I suppose you could call it a DH 82ca:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...psafstsm1i.jpg

Stationair8

No mate, definitely a Thruxton Jackaroo, as the example below shows:

GINFO Search Results | Aircraft Register | Operations and Safety

Remember them well when most were flying with the Wiltshire School of Flying, based at Thruxton, a few mile up the road from where I lived.

Ah! 'Wiltshire School of Flying' that is where the Prizeman family said the original idea came from.

I forgot: there's a fair bit about the Jackaroo in Bransom and Birch's "THe Tiger Moth Story".

India Four Two: I was after an alliterative name, but I've got you now (I think). Twin Jet?

Affirm. :ok:

It's amazing the way one thing leads to another. This is a bit off-topic, but following India Four Two's post, here's the gen from Wiki.

The word "Canberra" is popularly claimed to derive from the word Kambera or Canberry which is claimed to mean "meeting place" in the old Ngunnawal language, one of several Indigenous languages spoken in the district by Aboriginal people before European settlers arrived, although there is no hard evidence to support this. An alternative definition has been claimed by numerous local commentators over the years, including Ngunnawal Elder, Don Bell, whereby "Canberra" or "Nganbra/Nganbira" means "woman's breasts" and is the Indigenous name for the two mountains, Black Mountain and Mount Ainslie, which lie almost opposite each other. In the 1860s, the name was reported by Queanbeyan newspaper owner John Gale to be an interpretation of the name 'nganbra' or 'nganbira', meaning "hollow between a woman's breasts", and referring to the Sullivans Creek floodplain between Mount Ainslie and Black Mountain. An 1830s map of the region by Major Mitchell indeed does mark the Sullivan's Creek floodplain between these two mountains as "Nganbra". "Nganbra" or "Nganbira" could readily have been anglicised to the name "Canberry", as the locality soon become known to European settlers.

And there was me thinking it was named after Lord someone -or-other.

In Australia, Canberra means land 100 square miles of stupidity surrounded by a million square miles of reality.

Back to the Tiger Moth, what was the enclosed cockpit version called then?

[QUOTE=
Back to the Tiger Moth, what was the enclosed cockpit version called then?[/QUOTE]
DH-82c. The Canuck Moth...

The "C" model became known as the "Civilised" Moth as it had a conopy, brakes, tailwheel, and a heater, all things which made flying in our Canadian winter a lot nicer for the long sufering instructors and students!

G-APAP
 

I was a co_owner of AP in the 70's at Upavon. It was a dreadfull tug and in poor condition. I remember the plugs needed changing virtually daily and the misfiring engine was normal! It was a lot steadier than the tiger owing to the ailerons further outboard and the wider maingear, the result of the wider cabin. We removed the right hand seats to save weight but they had the harnesses attached which came in useful later when the directive came from the CAA to install shoulder harnesses on the left front seat. ( None were fitted!). I simply cut a hole in the leatherette seat back and bolted the liberated harness on. Voila and no paperwork. Around this time I flew G-APAM from Inkpen; a much nicer Jackaroo painted yellow/ red sunburst stripes and white leather seats and sharkskin grips on the sticks! I flew it for the only time 4 up to Redhill with CFI Ray Hunt. It performed remarkably well. Climb speed 60; cruise at 1900 RPM gave about 75 if I remember correctly. Without brakes on an undulating airfield in the wind caused a few minor disasters!

So it had a wider-wingspan - obvious when I think about it and it is clear when I look at pictures of the fuel tank.

So did the Jackaroo have any changes to the tail or did it have a normal Tiger Moth tailplane and elevator?

I remember reading an article by Derek Piggott on test flying a T21 motor glider. The engine had been installed in a new centre section, to which the wings were bolted. He found that the aircraft was now unstable, because there was not enough tail surface area to balance the larger wing area.

Were there any issues with the Jackaroo's handling?

It was better in roll than the TigerMoth; felt more positive. No the tail was standard TigerMoth. Lifting the tail by the struts was no problem; clearly the weight/ C of G didn,t affect this with the extra "plug" cabin. I remember there was no mixture control; just mags and a throttle and no idle cutoff.

Jackaroo Accident
 

http://www.pprune.org/c:\users\user\pictures\crash2.jpg

They weren't that seriously injured. The instructor was walking wounded and the student recovered fine. Remarkable when you look at the pic.

Thanks for the photo. It resolves the confusion (see earlier posts) over whether G-AIOW's accident was at Thruxton or Chilbolton - the photo is clearly taken at Thruxton.

Ah, I have fond memories of my first ever flights. At the age of 12, my father took me for joy rides in Jackaroos G-AOIX in September 1961 and in G-AOEX in June 1962 with the Wiltshire School of Flying at Thruxton. I remember the orange canopy roof glazing and the noise and vibration as the canopy shook.
There is a great book about the experiences of flying a Jackaroo by Maurice Brett called "A Sunday Flyer" which I have and enjoyed it immensely.

It was on 22nd July 1962, at the tender age of 17yrs 1 month that I reported to the Wiltshire School of Flying to begin my RAF Flying Scholarship, having ridden there on my NSU Quickly moped from Wimbledon. No messing about, I was shown my room in a very basic hut on the South side of the airfield, just by the black hangar which I soon discovered contained several Mosquitos and other aircraft in varying states of disrepair, and told to report to the club house by 3pm for a briefing. Late that afternoon I was strapped into Chipmunk G-AORL for my first effects of controls lesson with a very determined Polish instructor named Ruprecht. Over the next 12 days of complete immersion in the ways of the Jackaroo I completed the PPL course of 30 hours (18:40 dual and 11:20 solo) on G-AOEX (first solo), G-AOIR, G-AOIW,G-AOIX, G-APAI, G-APAP, and G-ANFY, spending evenings learning Air Law, Met and the mysteries of the Dalton computer. Taking my PPL Flying test on 5/8/62 with the larger than life CFI John Heaton, who had a few days earlier spun into a cornfield in a Tiger in full view of my fellow students, I seem to remember a heavy night of celebrations in the Jackaroo bar before launching off to home on the NSU the following morning.
As well as learning to fly, we cadets were used as cheap labour, ground handling the aircraft, refuelling, swinging props and making tea and coffee for the instructors. Over those action packed 13 days I flew with Hallmark, Lewis, Hadley and Ramsey-Smith, Ruprecht and Heaton, doing between 2 and 5 trips each day, with cross countries to long forgotten airfields such as Christchurch and Portsmouth. With no radio, brakes or starter the Jackaroo was hardly the most complicated training aircraft and seems to have done the job well; hearing what the instructors were saying to you through the Gosport tube intercom was probably the most challenging part of the training. Navigating the Airspace around Thruxton was no mean feat either, with RAF Andover, Boscombe Down, Chilbolton, Middle Wallop and Old Sarum all active military airfields with some pretty exotic machinery to see, avoid and marvel at.
I still fly from Thruxton and would love to hear from anyone who remembers "those days".
Sadlythough I never flew a Jackaroo again, the £4 17s. 6d an hour was beyond the means of a schoolboy with another year to go before A-levels.

Thruxton 1962
 

... and following on from that ... I landed at Thruxton on the 12th August on my qualifying solo cross country in an Elstree London School of Flying Chipmunk G-ARGH as part of my ATC Flying Scholarship. It may well have been the first time that I had landed on grass and whoever I got to sign my required paperwork referred to my landing as a "wheelie". On requesting someone to hand-swing the Chipmunk I discovered that they were very reluctant because the Chipmunk had a metal prop! Eventually some brave soul did and I went on my way to my next landing at Luton before returning to Elstree. I seem to remember that someone else on my course failed to find Thruxton at all, and instead landed his Chipmunk at Boscombe. Having parked up he walked to the guardroom to report his arrival but at first they wouldn't believe him. The tight security(?) meant they then impounded the aircraft and I believe an Elstree instructor had to go down a few days later to retrieve it.
Similar to Marchettiman I had just done my A-levels at that time and two years later (and now earning about £9 per week) I could not afford the £6 15s per hour for a Chipmunk and tried instead to keep my PPL by paying £5 5s for a check-out in an Auster at Denham. If I remember correctly I couldn't hack the left hand stick and right hand overhead throttle and so I gave it up. Fortunately a couple of months later I was accepted for training as a helicopter pilot in the Royal Navy and so continued my flying in helicopters for the rest of my working life.

...did mine in G-ARGG!