I think I was probably about 6 years old when I first heard a Dart; dad took me to Ringway back in the days of the original 1938 terminal, and a taxying Viscount must have made quite an impression.

When I got home I can remember running round the back lawn with my arms outstretched, 'police' whistle in my mouth making 'Dart-like' sounds!

Thanks for that, great link, I enjoyed listening to that with the sound up, glad that there are Darts still going, it must be nearly 70 years since the first one flew.

om15 thanks, that's the mod I was thinking of. I seem to remember a 748 that had it incorporated.

I'm pretty sure CF-CSE was the first 748 in Canada, imported by an oil company ..Shell?.. It had an APU in the tail compartment. Air North also operates CF-AGI, the first commercial 748 in Canada, originally owned by Air Gaspe Inc. hence the registration. This would have been about 1972 or 1973.

Could you select reverse pitch in flight ? - for short landing, obviously. I recall that you could in the RAF's C1 version (the one with the bending undercarriage) but could you do it in the HS 748 ?

No reverse pitch on the civil Dart powered aircraft, the ground fine pitch was zero degrees on the ground, in the air the flight fine pitch stop held the prop at about 16 degrees.


In theory it was possible to remove the flight fine pitch stop in flight, but only by engaging the gust lock or selecting the flight fine lock lever, depending on aircraft type, on the F27 it was selected by lifting the throttles up and back over a detent.

IIRC there was a Dan-Air 748 at LBA which abandoned the takeoff very early in the roll, and just selected idle power. The flight fine locks had engaged, with the result that both engines got a "little warm"

The F and J model Fairchild F-27's and the FH-227's - RDa 529's and 532's respectively - had a two stop propeller. In addition to the flight fine pitch lock there was a cruise pitch lock that engaged automatically in cruise when the propeller went past 30 or 32 degrees - I forget which and am too lazy to go look up. The lock would remove itself automatically as the aircraft slowed from cruise, but it case it didn't the lock could be removed manually by selecting the HP cock to the full forward Lock Out position. This worked well but if for whatever reason a prop somehow became jammed on the cruise pitch stop it would hang there. A way around that was to punch a feathering button momentarily to drive the prop forward off the lock. I could never figure out why the F-27's had that, another nickname for them being The Flying Blimp, but apparently the two stop prop came about at the request of corporate operators who were leery of a prop fining off toward flight fine at cruise speed. The G159 had them, so it seems to have been a me-too addition by Fairchild. The G1 I can see, it was after all a 290kt airplane.

If I remember, Fokkers produced an AFM amendment to operate with the HP cocks at lock out at all times, they felt that there was no need for the cruise stop. However the CAA had the view that the aircraft had not been certified to operate with the cruise lock disengaged, and UK operators continued to use the system as designed.
I think it was 32 degrees, with the hub switches operating at 34 degrees, I have it noted somewhere.


Herod, I was involved on two separate occasions to carry out double engine changes on Heralds in cases where the flight fine lever went forward on taxi, the aircraft stopped on the runway with the props hanging on the locks, when opened up for take off both engines burnt out, in one case severely damaging the jet pipe.

om15 #78 HS748
 

The HS 748 S2 that became a HS 748 S1 which you referred to might have become G-DAAL which in my logbook is down as a Series 1A.

Sorry for the thread drift, but this is worth watching

Yikes. Quite scary to see one thrown around like that. I suspect that the PF had decent upper body strength..

Midnight retired, yes that does ring a bell, was G-DAAL an ex Dan Air aircraft do you remember?

According to g-info DAAL was c/n1557 previously BEKG, and also spent time a VAJK.

Built as series 105 for Aerolineas and sold to Dan Air c1977. Was it possible for Dan Air to convert it to Series 2 spec?

Dan-Air bought a 'job lot' of Darts from the MoD from recently retired Argosies. These were fitted to the Dan-Air sirs 2s to become 2As. The engines from the srs 2s were then fitted to the srs 1s, and the aircraft given the unofficial designation srs 1A.
(If my ageing memory serves me well!)

jn14:6, ex- DA 748s & Comets

Jn 14:6 that sounds right. Kept DA Manchester busy.

80p
 

I left Woodford before the ATP emerged.
Yes,it was termed the Skoda in some circles but in others (line engineering) it was the Yugo!
BEA crews referred to the 737 as a fluf,I think,before they became part of the fleet.

I flew the Argosy for 10 years in the RAF. We had a mechanical lever near the throttles which had to be selected by the PNF during the landing run. This allowed the props to fine off from the FFPS (Flight Fine Pitch Stop) which was around 12 degrees or so blade angle to the GFPS (Ground Fine Pitch Stop) which was around 0 degrees.

If you opened the throttles on the ground with the props still in Flight Fine, an instant melt down happened pretty quickly (too much fuel for too high a blade angle).

During my time there were at least two total meltdowns on the Argosy fleet. I think one event took place on the conversion unit at Thorney Island (242 OCU) and certainly, the other event happened at Luqa when ATC asked the crew to expedite clearing the runway after landing. On both occasions, all four engines were wrecked.

During my time on the Argosy, I was attached to BEA to fly the Viscount 802/806. Pretty much the same engines and props but their ground fine pitch stop was controlled by a squat switch on the nose gear (brought on an orange light if I remember to show that it was working correctly). I don't recall BEA having any meltdowns but I am prepared to be educated!

HS 748 s1A
 

om15 G-DAAL.

Your excellent article has certainly created some deep thinking on the part of quite a few of us and also added to the knowledge on the venerable Avro 748 aircraft, so well done for blowing the cobwebs away.

I first flew G-DAAL in 1995 when I joined Emerald Airways at Liverpool , I would need to find my old logbooks , somewhere in the loft , to perhaps add something of value to the discussion . I recall it was eventually withdrawn from service as more Series 2A's and 2B's were added to the fleet.

Despite the decision to standardise the Series 1's carried on for many a year, the final flight of a UK based Series 1 was G-BEJD which I took to Blackpool for disposal , last heard of it returned to Liverpool by road !

G-BEJD is familiar, one of the original batch of 748s in the fleet, I have found this in my notes, a cutting from the Royal Aeronautical Society magazine in January 1993, John Case was an ex BA 748 engineer who was instrumental in introducing the type to what was then called Janes, when he passed away G-BEJD had his name on the side of the cockpit.
There were very interesting and innovating times, keeping elderly airframes going on a budget, I wish I had kept more notes of the various aircraft,





http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6a532069.jpg

G-BEJD AVRO 748 S1
 

Thank you for the information on the naming of John Case on JD , another interesting fragment of the 748 jigsaw.

Great demo by the F-27. I was shooting the breeze with one of the F/O's on that demo one day. He told me the PNF would switch #2 VHF to an unused freq and begin a 10 count. The #2 antenna was on the belly below the cargo door and when they began to get feedback on the freq they knew they were within 2 feet of the runway. I asked what happened if they lost the feedback and he replied " It means the Captain has gotten too low and scraped the antenna off." I think he was serious. :D

CF-CSE
 

evansb,

A very nice picture of the only 748 I ever flew in. Here is a sadder picture of her, being parted out at Whitehorse in 2006:

http://www.explorenorth.com/library/...-5994-1000.jpg

pigboat,

CSE was not owned by Shell. She was part of Chevron Standard's air force in the 70s, hence the registration. The others were a Turbo Beaver (CSA) and two Series 100 Twin Otters (CSC and CSD istr).

I was working for Chevron in Calgary and flew in all of them. I flew in the jump-seat of CSE from Calgary to an ice-strip on the Mackenzie River northwest of Inuvik, via Edmonton, High Level and Norman Wells.

The flight was to deliver equipment to an exploration well and I saw first-hand one of the short comings of the 748 as a freighter. The port-side freight door was positioned such that it would have been very easy for a fork-lift driver to back into the propellor. Hence the loadmaster kept an eagle eye on the proceedings.

On the way home, after dark, I saw the northern lights to the south of us. That was unexpected.

Last March, I was in Chiang Mai in Thailand, where besides doing the usual tourist stuff, I had flown a DA-20. Waiting at the airport to fly back to Bangkok, I was very surprised to see a 748 doing circuits. It turned out to be a RTAF aircraft. Are there any others still flying, besides this one and Air North's fleet of five?

A friend pointed out to me this morning that my photograph of XS611 at Salalah had disappeared into the ether. I have re-posted it on to Post #62 for those who are interested.

Chevron! That's the one. I42 the only other operator in Canada I can think of is/was Wasaya, but here again I'm not sure if they still do. They lost a 748 freighter at some strip in Northern Ontario a couple of years ago, they were hauling fuel and it caught fire an burned during the transfer from the airplane to the ground tanks.

Jimmy Harrison took a 748 on a world (ish) demo tour in the early 60s which included Bangkok. His demo was at Don Muang, as it then was, for the Thai brass. Quite startling! On his first rotation, he failed the starboard engine and immediately rolled into a 'dead engine' turn coming back low level along the civilian aircraft parking area ... low, in this case requiring that he lift to clear the line of 707 and DC8 tail fins lined up in front of the terminal. The remainder of the display continued in similar vein and his arrival back on the stand was greeted by rapturous applause - well earned. Can't be sure, (I left before it happened) but I have a feeling that the intended customers (Thai Airways) bought the Herald!! :(
Many years later I was 'fingered' to learn the 80p to eventually ground instruct (didn't happen:ok:) One (among many) oddities was the inclusion of a 'steering bar' for the radio compass indication:eek: Trying to follow that would have taxed the most ardent Space Invaders fan!

Thai Airways bought nine 748s. Three in 1964, three in 1968, one in 1970 and two in 1972.
All were out of service by 1987. Two were written off in 1980, four went to the Royal Thai Air Force in 1983 and two were written off in 1987.

The 1983 departures were replaced by Sheds (Shorts 330s -oh the ignominy!!).

It was the Royal Malay Air Force that bought the Herald.

The Malaysian Air Force had the purpose built HP7 400 series, on retirement from military duties some of the aircraft returned to UK and were operated by BAF at Southend.
The last Herald operating in UK was G-BEYF, a former Malasian aircraft that retired in 1999.
On converting one of the 400 series to a freighter a weight reduction process was carried out, there was a very substantial wiring loom found running along the front spar, one theory was that the aircraft had loud speakers fitted under the wings to broadcast to the terrorists in the jungle.
The Herald was also pressed into military service during the six day war by the Israeli Air Force, the aircraft being operated by Arkia flying tourists to the dead sea at the time.

Mt. Cook Airlines operated a fleet of 748s in NZ from 1968 to 1996. They had a customised missed approach procedure at Queenstown for OEI contingency ops - the procedure 'depended' on a net climb gradient of 0.75% istr :eek:

Re the F27 low pass; I was told that they descended until the HF signal through the belly antenna just started to hetrodyne.

" 'andover, Andover", Dover, over" was the version I heard between London Mil and Airways, back in the late 60s.

Mount Cook 748's
 

Dan Air wet leased an example in the late 1970's.It was used on the ABZ-LSI
route.The Mount Cook Lilly was seen resplendent on its fin in Aberdeen and
Sumburgh.Though,for "lilly"read "buttercup"-actually the world's largest!

The Royal New Zealand Air Force obtained some Andovers second-hand, which earned them the nickname "leftovers'.

The Mount Cook 748 leased by Dan Air was G-AYYG. it operated for them during the following periods, returning to New Zealand at the end of each lease:

17/06/78-18/10/78; 02/04/79-17/09/79; 09/04/80-22/10/81

During the leases it retained its Mount Cook blue colours with matching blue titles and the floral tail emblem was retained.

The aircraft itself was interesting. It was built as a demonstration aircraft and first flew in Hawker Siddeley house colours. In 1973 Howard Hughes entered into a lease purchase arrangement for the aircraft and travelled to Woodford to see it. He then decided he wanted to learn to fly the 748, but not his own aircraft. He arranged to charter a Rousseau Aviation 748 which he flew in and out of Stansted. He only saw YYG the one time, never flew in it and after his death it was sold to Mount Cook, having spent years in the Woodford flight shed.

After service with Mount Cook it went on to Canada then back to the UK where it was eventually retired in 2011

In the early 70's, I went to the Woodford airshow and we decided to visit the factory - climbed in through the canteen window and saw some Mount Cook 748's in various stages of completion on the line, Then climbed out again, unchallenged, having left no evidence of our visit.

Guys ,
Daarn Sarf we heard that the BEA Skyliners [ Skyvans ] were 2 tonne budgies .
Thus the 748 became a 4 tonne Budgie ...
25 years later ...80p is new to me , wuz in the day Parrot [Budgies Big Bruffer ! ] , Advanced Technical Problem , Wigwam [ A TePee ! ] , BAT [ as entered on ATC flight plans ] Skoda [ on Berlin IGS services with a lot of Trabants around ].
Reckoned if built East of the Pennines or with £1 gizmos [ instead of 50p gizmos ] they would have been more reliable .
Memories ... conversion course with BAe trainers '' Just like the Budgie '' .......'' BUT we've never been on the Budgie '' , seeing the North Sea from FL180 through the gaps around the doors . Needing hair dryers to unfreeze doors after landing in German winters . 1 in 1 descents ....FL180 to ground in 18 miles . Reversing around various airfields /runways . Smooth as silk in huge Hebs cross winds . Feet on the dash board to help rotate , trimming [ electric ] to help with the flare .
1st 20 pax went in the back , if less than 20 ; then 25kg bags of shingle went in the boot as ballast . 2 a/c each having an engine change in a Kirkwall winter . Tent sided artics which had deliverd the engines , parked around each offending one so the engineers could have a semblance of shelter [ Glasgow engineers are exceedingly tough ] .
The Budgie 'tho had much better freight hold ... trying to get a coffin in the boot was challenging [ would not fit in the bonnet ].. good job traveling rellees could not see our struggles or solution .

All that said ; they are a tough a/c , low wing , wide u/c , easy to de-ice , built like brick Karzee ,... handled all that the Hebs , Northern Isles , and N Germany
[ before the wall came down ] could throw at them .. and 25 + years later can be seen on Flight radar 24 ; still nightly trucking on as freighters from the Channel Isles throughout UK and around Scandinavia .

Rgds condor .

PS DC10 ... Def Cruiser
MD11 ... More Def 2

Why is the HS 748 known as the Budgie?
 

BAe146...Quadrapuff, also Hush Puppy

Jumbolino was the brand (for want of a better word) devised by Crossair to market their 146/RJ services, so slightly more provenance than some of the other nicknames being discussed:

http://home.arcor.de/jthunder/sticke..._Jumbolino.jpg

G-BMFT, Manchester, 1988:
http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/...ter%201988.jpg

G-BMFT, owned by Euroair, left BA and did the rounds, went on to Jersey European Airways, Business Air and then Emerald, ended up as G-OPFW and withdrawn from use 2009.

G-BMFT now has its nose section preserved at the South Yorkshire Aircraft Museum at Doncaster.

evansb,
Your picture of G-BFMT clearly shows the issue I raised about the proximity of the freight-door to the port prop.