Morning BP. Your book was a great read, and I knew a few in there including the notorious 'Mike Bishop'. Was it all true?

Shaggy.....Fraid so although a few mix ups as had a call from my pilot mate with the clocking...said he clocked the car the first time and it was someone else who got the trading standards involved...but he reminded me that he nearly got banned from British Car Auctions for bidding up his own car at a time when auction ringing became a criminal offence..his other stories were far more "naughty" including the near loss of a Boeing but I can't tell many tales because it would identify him.....
A couple of months ago I was at Airbus...when a guy walked up and said You count Ace..."man land 12 ft" ..I got a C because of you...(route or sim check)
He joined the Trident a couple of years after me and I was P3 on his check...
On a coupled approach final it was P3's job to check the state of the auto land system...doll's eyes etc...and determine system capability...Man(ual) land lowest height was 200ft (cat 1) whereas "Auto" could be anything between 200ft and 12ft....so MAN LAND 12ft was impossible but he didn't twig...
We pushed some of the skippers too far ....but seemed fun at the time and so he got a C ...satisfactory...which is what we were paid for...
Guy now a TRE....he recounted yet another story about the above clocker...trees...a school...and the police....happy days
Have a blog as well...

Sleeve Wing in #11: I totally back You up on this.
It's easy to pick popularized names and forget other who qualifies to a given honour as well as there might be plenty of pilots with unspoken achievements who never gets into the comparison.
In such case I often compare with the first person to fly with a motorised airplane, who is common known to be the Wright brothers - But in fact the Wrights are morely the first to survive to tell the story hence there might be several among the pioneers who died in the try but actual got airborne short before they perished. Remember: Trying to fly was performed by lonely fools theese days!

But IF I should ignore the achievements of Eric Brown I would mention Roland Garros and Howard Huges!

There's no such thing as the "greatest ever pilot". Its a very subjective thing, we all live in our own time, many of the "aces of yesteryear" would struggle in the modern environment and certainly vice versa too. Also, opportunity is essential, you could be the best pianist ever, but without access to a piano pure talent means nothing.

The greatest ever pilot....
 

Murphy! :)

Never had a flying lesson but eventually bombs a U-Boat in a Grumman Duck.

Modern era:

Jim Lovell

Ray Hanna
Stefan Karwowski

Nick Lappos (Rotary)


EyesFront So am I - in principle.

However, I suspect you might be surprised by the number of people apparently entitled to call themselves a 'test pilot'.

FL

It is nigh impossible to say for certain who the greatest pilot was or is. There are hundreds of them. Starting with Wilbur, or was it Orville Wright, they were the FIRST test pilots - on their own aircraft (the only one). Today there are several names still alive who were among the greatest, but you cannot ignore those who have died, whether testing or or by natural means.


Today very much alive is Eric Brown, another is John Farley, and others abound. But..........all 'great' in their own right. Eric Brown who flew over 400 types in all vastly different circumstances created awe inspiring moments that will live forever - as will his name. John Farley too created the Harrier from his own skills by working closely with the designers. His stamp is all over it. Without John Farley there would not have been a Harrier. His test pilot skills grew and grew. Now retired he has a special place in test flying.


Tis, therefore, enough to recognise each and every one as the greatest in their own field and tis also right to remember each and every one from time to time for without them aviation, flying in particular, would never have been as safe as it is.


Test flying began with a rate of safety on an ever increasing upward trend, it still does. The legacy of all who flew west and those who died trying to make flying safe for others over a 100 years ago and those who retired knowing that they gave us the ability to step confidently on to aircraft and get to where we wish to go. Relatively few people think of the risks test pilots took to achieve that. Even though they were calculated, they still had to make the aeroplanes safe. It was NEVER thus - now it is. Well almost!


Other pilots have their exploits written for us all to see. In that sense we must not forget the fighter pilot who laid his life on the line, sometimes day after day in the Battle of Britain and other areas of war where they were needed to keep populations free and safe. The list goes on and on.................

Biggles wins hands down.

My nominations are:

Civil aviation: Captain Clarence Over

Military: Ted Striker

:):):)

YOU'RE LOOKING AT HIM!

Pop,
Good post. There are so many to whom we owe so much. Not just the Battle of Britain pilots and the test pilots you mention (and I agree with your comments). But spare a thought also for all those bomber crews who night after night flew over occupied Europe. They had to cope with the contrast of being in a normal Britain one day and then in the horror of the night skies the next. Perhaps not great pilots, not even the greatest, but a great test of fortitude.

Wilbur and Orville, they started it all.

Anybody who survived the carnage of WW1 and there were few of those.
Jeffery Quill and Mutt Summers for their work in and before WW2.

Erich Hartman as a fighter pilot.

Leonard Cheshire as a leader and humanitarian.

Roland Beamont Peter Twiss John Derry Brian Trubshaw post WW2

JF and Bill Bedford in later years.

Barbara Harmer, who made the rt hand seat of Concorde overcoming all the obstacles on the way.

Then there is the men who got them off the ground, Sopwith, A V Roe, Handley Page, Chadwick, Barnes Wallace, R J Mitchell, Camm, Petter, and Johnson,

Regarding WW.I aviators, Canadian Billy Bishop VC, DSO, DFC, comes to mind. He officially recorded 72 victories. He also helped set up the BCATP.

WW.II Japanese Naval Aviator Saburo Sakai is also worthy of this thread's category. One of the few Japanese Aces that survived.
Wrote a good book too...

Add to that list Geoffrey de Havilland.........

PM

PM, foolish of me, how could I miss Sir Geoffery and we could add Messerschmitt, Tank, Zeppelin and Heinkel.

Although the title of this thread is The Greatest ever pilot... I see a definite historical and geographical bias. What, no Russians, French, Italians, Poles or Czechs? Or...?

Yes, Jan Zurokowski was a Pole, but he continued his exploits in Canada..and a Romanian was mentioned, but there seems to be an overwhelming British bias. No surprise really.

Maybe him..Ernst Udet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia EWB rated him

Major Stanislaw Salski, heard of him from Johnnie Johnson's book 'Full Circle' flew in the Western desert flying Spitfire 5s when the FW 190 first appeared.

There is an Israeli pilot with 17 kills, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giora_Epstein

evansb, you have a point.

However, on this page alone there are fingers pointing in all directions, but I doubt that there is one who could reel off the names of test pilots or pilots of distinction from other countries, including the commonwealth. 'Tis bad enough trying to remember those we have, but to add foreign test pilots from the world over is like naming individual bees in one hive! They all fly perfectly but no-one knows their name!

Fortunately, there are well written books that do that, and in most cases it takes the authors years of research as well as travel hither and thither to get just a few words of unbeatable veracity to enter it into a book. I have read a lot of such books and in all cases I have marvelled at some of exploits of these marvellous men. I have also met many on the display circuits and some fit the brand of the 'best' pilots I have ever seen. It has been a privilege to know them, a few I still do, and they are my friends. Surprisingly, just a few had an over inflated ego, which did little for their undoubted talent.

I don't think I could subscribe to the thought all bomber crews fall into the same category. In the case of a Lancaster for example a pilot was one of a seven crew and they were all heroes. That means they fall into a slot that is clearly that of 'Protectors of the Realm' - that is my title anyway, but it must apply to all those who fought for this country.

Sorry if I have gone on a bit, but let us not forget the ETPS (Empire Test Pilots School) at Boscombe Down. It annually turns out fully trained test pilots - from all around the world. The test pilots who train these real test pilots are second to none and, as far as I know, are all British therefore it gives Britain a definite bias. Nothing wrong that because it is true. Certainly the ones I know are.

But there is one fact that is without doubt a history of magnificence when it comes to defining British born and bred Test Pilots. They did a job that no-one can ever beat. In some cases they gave their lives but the flying curve of safety they flew/fly always pointed skywards until it is damn near as safe as it is ever going to be.

I see clunckdriver mentioned George Neal in November. I would like to bring his name to the fore again. Now certified by Guinness as the world's oldest active pilot at 96:

George Neal Enters Guinness Record Book as Oldest Pilot | Business Aviation News: Aviation International News

I met him once. A very nice, down-to-earth and unpretentious individual.