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'Winkle' Brown story
Just a heads up BBC2 19.00 this evening, Wednesday October 8th., the story of the amazing Winkle Brown.
I think it is a repeat but is still worth watching even if you have seen it before.:ok: |
Truly like a Forrest Gump of the air, except he had/has the sharpest of intelligences combined with all the qualities needed to manhandle recalcitrant aircraft through the flight envelope. Well worth watching again, if only they had made it a 3-parter as there was/is more than enough material to fill it!
SHJ |
In today's Daily Mail in the Answers to Correspondents column a question was asked 'were Mosquito fighter bombers ever flown from aircraft carriers in a com at role in WW11'.
Well the answer is yes and the pilot was, of course, Captain Eric 'winkle' Brown. Although I don't think he flew combat missions but was the first to land that type on a carrier. A real hero and a legend. |
Mossies embarked
One of my CO's many years ago flew FAA Mosquitoes. The first squadron was formed and started to work-up; however, the project was abruptly cancelled before they embarked. The aircraft had demonstrated its ability to operate successfully onto and off the deck. Someone had measured the aircraft to ensure it would fit down the lifts. Unfortunately, in doing the measurement noone had taken into account the fact that the tips of the props projected beyond the stub wings.
End of project. That was the story he told me, anyhow. |
Quote
Unfortunately, in doing the measurement noone had taken into account the fact that the tips of the props projected beyond the stub wings. If by "stub wings" you mean the wing to the fold point, if you were to stop the engines with a pair of prop blades horizontal it would increase the clearance required, but stopping with the props at 45 degrees there would be no such problem (judging from the photos). I was told that DH were unsure if power folding was required until an admiral said "Oh don't worry about that, we've got lots of sailors who can do it!" |
Just caught the last 15mins and even in that small portion the achievements were more than most do in their entire careers…..427 different types flown :D
SHJ |
...... 427 different types flown |
He got around a bit!
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427 different types flown Not a salesman, but there is a DVD titled "A Pilot's Story" detailing his exploits. Google title for availability. |
He still does get around a bit. The last couple of years he's elected to stop travelling overseas, but he still gives talks in the UK a few times a year - if you ever manage to make one of these talks, it is an impressive and unique experience. His near-perfect memory and engaging speaking style are unparalleled.
G |
EB.
EB gave a talk in Warwick a couple of years ago. Thoroughly excellent - he's still got a terrific memory. If you get the chance - go. He's just about the last of that generation of pilots.
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Autobiography.
His book Wings on my Sleeve is very good read.
Colin. |
Thanks for the heads up, vctenderness. I would probably have missed it otherwise as BBC2 Scotland, in their wisdom, had something else on at that time.:rolleyes:
I also found his book a very interesting read, especially the chapters dealing with the immediate aftermath of the war in Germany. |
......and another heads up re Winkle. He is the subject of the 3000th edition of Desert Island Discs on BBC Radio 4, 0900-0945 Friday 14th November.
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Met him at Sola Air Show in June 2012. He gave a lecture, and among other things talked about when he flew Arado 234s back to the UK in 1945. Interesting flights, as the engines had a total life of about 25 hours, and nobody knew if they were brand new or had 24h 50min on them..
He signed my logbook and the inside of the baggage hatch on our Tiger Moth, and I got to talk to him in person for a bit. A privilege to be able to talk to the great man. The term "hero" is flogged around quite a bit these days. None more deserving of the title than Winkle. The fact that he is not Sir Eric is a travesty. Signing the Moth http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82...-100612412.jpg Me and the great man http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82...-100612407.jpg The logbook http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82...2/IMG_0598.jpg |
Guess that'll just about double the value of the Tiger Moth - and rightly so.
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If anybody missed it, EwB was on Desert Island Discs this morning 9:00-9:45. It was consistently brilliant, by turns distressing, hilarious, and moving.
Anybody who missed it - BBC will have it shortly on iPlayer and on MP3 download from the Desert Island Discs website. Don't miss it. Really really, don't miss it. G |
Agreed - well worth downloading. Loved the bit about looping around each of the spans of the Forth Bridge in a Seafire.... and the RAF getting the blame!
Listen or download here |
Do it now!
Why hasn't Captain Brown received the official recognition he so richly deserves?
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Originally Posted by Mr Oleo Strut
(Post 8742246)
Why hasn't Captain Brown received the official recognition he so richly deserves?
However, to be fair, he is the most decorated pilot in the history of the Royal Navy, holds several honororary degrees, Distinguished Flying Cross, Commander of the Order of the British Empire - and the entirely earned respect of a great many people like us. G |
I've said it before and I'll probably say it again...
Some years ago, a facsimile edition of the flying log books of RR Stanford-Tuck was produced and I believe, sold out fairly quickly. If someone were to do the same with the log books of Captain Brown, I would pay a tidy sum for a copy. On the recent Desert Island Discs programme I think he mentioned there were 11 or maybe 12 log books detailing his flying! |
Originally Posted by P6 Driver
(Post 8744183)
I've said it before and I'll probably say it again...
Some years ago, a facsimile edition of the flying log books of RR Stanford-Tuck was produced and I believe, sold out fairly quickly. If someone were to do the same with the log books of Captain Brown, I would pay a tidy sum for a copy. On the recent Desert Island Discs programme I think he mentioned there were 11 or maybe 12 log books detailing his flying! It also runs two charitable foundations, the larger of which is to support the education of the children of deceased TPs. I've suggested to the last two presidents that notable members, or if they've passed on, their families, could be approached about publishing facsimiles of their logbooks to raise money for the two SETP foundations. If there are any other TPs reading this, they could always try adding their voice to mine, as I still think that it is one of my better ideas. G |
Eric's first flight - a puzzle?
I'm new to the forum, so pardon me sticking my size 9s in out of the blue! I've been a voracious consumer of EB's memoirs since first reading Wings of the Weird & Wonderful some years ago, and I agree that it's a mystery that he's never received a Knighthood for his services.
I wonder if anybody could solve a small conundrum which has been puzzling me for some time? It's this: Eric recalls that he first flew at the age of eight or ten, sitting on his Dad's lap in a Gauntlet. This would have been January 1930 at the latest. However, the SS19 Gauntlet first flew in 1933 and didn't enter RAF service until 1935. So the aircraft in question may have been a Grebe, Gamecock, Siskin or possibly a Bulldog (which would have been brand new at the time) - OR Eric was in his mid to late teens when he took that flight (unlikely, considering his customary clarity of recall). It seems to me that only his father's flight logs could answer this definitively - but does anybody have an answer to this? Thanks, Spadge |
Welcome to the forum Spadge.
Damned if I know, but it's a good spot. I suppose the obvious answer is that it was something like a Grebe or Gamecock - even EB's memory can't be faultless, although it usually seems to be. Why not write and ask him? I'm sure that a letter via his publisher would get there quickly enough, and in my experience, is always very generous with his time and knowledge, and I'm sure would answer you. G |
I was lunching with a friend recently, who told me a tale that when Eric Brown was asked to write a comment on a book abour Hanna Reitsch, simply wrote 'Nazi Lesbian!!'. I have his wonderful 'Wings on my sleeve' autographed by him at an after dinner speech some years ago.
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I was sat next to him at a dinner once upon a time. Being reasonably bright, I knew enough to nudge him occasionally into conversation then shut up and listen.
He mentioned an anecdote about Hanna Reich, who I didn't realise at that time he knew. GTE: "So you knew Hannah Reich?" EB: "Oh yes, very well" GTE raises eyebrows close to the ceiling EB: "Not that well, trust me, you wouldn't want to. Brilliant pilot, dreadful woman". G |
The redoutable Captain Brown was featured on the Jeremy Vine show today. It's still on the BBC Radio iplayer last thirty minutes of the show.
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Genghis:
If someone who knew him a little, and was a fellow Society member, were to start a No.10 petition for the K, I daresay it would get a lot of signatures. I'm not sure if he would be pleased, or irritated by the fuss though. ;) MJ:ok: |
MJ:
Are we sure Capt. Brown has not already declined an offer of a K? Rant warning: Moreover, I believe the time for that was when people like him got 'em, rather than now when current games players, theatre/cinema actors and time-served politicians are knighted just for doing what they are (well-)paid for. |
I think I saw an interview where Captain Brown described Reitsch as "the epitome of evil".
Given that he witnessed the horrors of the death camps, he had much to compare her with. |
He's just a pilot - lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time to practice his vocation. Many fail to be that fortunate. Certainly doesn't deserve a K, nor do military brass, sports types, civil servants, celebrities or sycophantic hangers-on to contemporary culture.
Reitsch died in Frankfurt at the age of 67, on 24 August 1979, apparently after a heart attack. She had never married. That same month Eric Brown, a British test pilot who had known her before the war, was surprised to receive a letter from Reitsch in which she reminisced about their shared love of flying, the letter ending with the words; "It began in the bunker and there it shall end". Brown speculated that this may have referred to a suicide pact with von Greim, who may well have been Reitsch's lover: they had both been given cyanide pills by Hitler while in the bunker and Reitsch was known still to have hers. It is possible that she had made a pact with von Greim to follow him in committing suicide, albeit at a different time in order to dampen any rumours of their affair. Her death was announced shortly after Brown received this letter, which led him to wonder whether she had finally carried out her side of the pact and had used the suicide pill at last: apparently no post-mortem inquest was carried out on her body |
Originally Posted by cvg2iln
He's just a pilot - lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time to practice his vocation. Many fail to be that fortunate. Certainly doesn't deserve a K
"Just a pilot?" A man who spends his time flying off carriers at a time when accident rates in carrier aviation were very high, fighting the enemy and shooting several down, then having the carrier sunk under him, floating around in the Atlantic among dead crewmen until being fortunate enough to be picked up, then continuing to serve his country for innumerable hours aloft, constantly exposing himself to considerable danger while exploring the very edges of the envelope, furthering the technology that helped advance the field of aviation, does NOT deserve a knighthood? Joan Collins was just knighted. Joan Collins, before EWB! Verily you must be the biggest troll to come along in a long time. Pray tell, who does deserve a knighthood, in your opinion, if not Winkle Brown? |
I have the greatest respect for the flying skills of Eric and Hanna.
I didn't meet Hanna until about 1971 or 1972 when I got into a lift (OK elevator) in the Beverly Hills Hilton to go down to an SETP function and she was already in it. I must say she did not come across to me as a lesbian that evening, but I have made plenty of mistakes in this life. |
I think it was Irma Grese (the 'Beast of Belsen') that he described as 'the epitome of evil'.
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EB described Hanna.R to me once with the single line "Excellent pilot, dreadful woman".
I suspect we're going too far on the point away from the theme of the forum, but from the experiences of my moderately unsheltered life, I'd say that the simple distinction of "straight" versus "gay"/"lesbian" does not really work in the real world. Some people have a very straightforward binary existence in that regard, many don't. G |
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