Adopt a Military Grave
 

This might be an appropriate thread to remind ppruners that there are similar graves in churchyards all around the UK - and someone is needed to keep an eye on them.

After contacting CWGC about an issue concerning the solitary military grave in my local churchyard, I was eventually asked if I would care to "adopt" it. I was aware that there are permanent teams maintaining the large military cemeteries, mainly abroad of course, but I learned that CWGC have a major administrative and logistical headache with the hundreds of individual graves scattered in ones and twos in churchyards throughout the UK. With the passage of the generations, these graves are being forgotten and are not visited by relatives. In the end I agreed to "adopt" four other graves in my local area, in churchyards that I regularly drove past, unaware of their presence.

It is not a particularly onerous task. You are simply required to make an annual inspection on behalf of CWGC and every two years give the Portland stone a scrub with a mild biocide solution. That's all. I choose in addition to call in every few weeks to trim back the surrounding vegetation, as two of the churchyards are not regularly mown, - the work of just minutes. In November I also present each one with his poppy cross, my own personal act of remembrance for those who made the ultimate sacrifice that we have managed to evade.

Given the sentiments expressed in this thread, ppruners - in particular the mils - spread all around the country, would be the obvious candidates to consider assisting CWGC by adopting the grave of a brother in arms that, unbeknown to them, they regularly pass by without realising. Anyone willing to do so should contact the UK Area Operations Manager at CWGC.

What a good idea - from the MIL forum
 

It has long been a 'bee in my bonnet' that there must be graves of heroes that are not tended. Here then we can remember some of those who fought and died for us and which gives the opportunity of like minded people who wish to contact the CWGC to find graves, even in your local area, mine is Croydon, and which need some occasional TLC in memory of those may have been 'forgotten.'

I am going to keep this thread alive and I hope that those who do take a grave or two to tend will RECORD it here so that we can see what a difference we can actually make in this, the 70th anniversary of the Battle of Britain - and beyond.

:: CWGC ::

PPP

A bit off thread perhaps?
 

Would it be possible to contribute to the upkeep my brother's grave in the Silent Valley Military Cemetery in Aden, if that is possible? Just wondering how best to go about this?

I was sent some 'photos recently and the whole place looks very wind swept and dusty, just washing down the headstones so that the wording is visible would be an improvement. (I served in Aden too so I know it isn't hard for things to look neglected quite quickly).

It would be nice if the white marble cross that was a centre piece and was destroyed by militant locals a few years ago could be replaced, our spineless foreign office said to replace it would be, "too provocative" !

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

What a wonderul idea. I go to some pretty obscure places and make a point of checking for servicemens headstones and making sure they are looked after whenever I can. It is indeed very sad to see unkempt/damaged/vandalised headstones for the people who proably didn't want to be there, were normal folk like you and I and whose families haven't been to see the grave for a long, long time (if ever).

Temps

In the UK it's not that difficult. I look after the CWGC tablets in half a dozen or so local village churchyards. It makes for a quiet, contemplative, pleasant even, morning out. But be careful. You'll find yourself drawn in to the military history of the poor lads buried there - mostly deaths in miliary hospitals at home following repatriation from the Western Front. Then you'll find yourself looking at the village War Memorial and checking out the names and at the end of that....well I'm on my third book now. And a Western Front battlefield tour guide. All because of a single neglected grave in a tiny hamlet in rural East Anglia.

There are less honourable roads to walk in this world. If you fancy it then open up 'Search Records' on the CWGC website and switch 'Casualty' to 'Cemetery'. Enter the name of the village or town and go from there.

I spent months looking for my Uncles War grave, eventually found it but no Portland stone, I sent a letter to the CWGC asking why?... it seems some long ago mix up had left him without his portland stone memorial, about 4 months later I went to lay the Poppies on his grave, and found a magnificent new,well ftted and excellently engraved Headstone, it sems the mix up had been sorted and without any forwarning the CWGC had planted the regular Portland stone on the site of my much loved Uncle, sad thing is my father his brother had gone to the big grey hanger some 10months earlier.

Now I find that I seem to have taken the mantle of stone keeper in that grave yard, for those of that ilk,... who too many in this country seem to have forgotton..! and out of family gratitude I send a small yearly donation to the CWGC

Peter R-B
Formerly Vfrpilotpb

What a wonderful idea. I have an uncle buried at Embermenil in France, I've managed to visit the grave once when living in France.
If any ppruners are passing or even live close - put a poppy or flower on the grave for our family come November 9th.
I shall be finding a grave or two locally to tend. PFR.

He was a Navigator with 50 Sqn and was killed on the night of the 25th/26th Feb 1944 outbound on a raid to Augsburg having taken-off from Skellingthorpe at 18:37 in Lancaster MK I LL791, coded VN-O. They were picked up by night fighters, crashing near Embermenil, 25 miles east-south-east of Nancy. Sgt Gilson was the only member of the crew killed, although managing to leave the a/c he was found by local people, chute deployed, but having died. The other members of the crew successfully parachuted to safety. He had flown 14 sorties to that date.

[IMG]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55...tKenGilson.jpg[/IMG]

EMBERMENIL COMMUNAL CEMETERY
France

Embermenil is a small village 40 kilometres east-south-east of Nancy and some 15 kilometres east-north-east of Luneville, a town on the road from Paris to Sarrebourg. The communal cemetery is at the south-western end of the village on the road to Laneuville-aux-Bois. The British grave is near the middle of the rear wall

PFR
You probably know all this,but German radar had sight of this raid very early on as the force was forming up north of London. They sent up over 100 Tame Boar twin and single engined night fighters to intercept the two waves of bombers. Oblt. Hans-Georg Birkenstock of Stab1./NJG6 flew from Mainz-Finthen that evening and shot down LL791 at about 2125 Central European Time. The Lancaster was his sixth victim. Birkenstock's next score,a Halifax left him injured by return fire and he had to bale out of his damaged Bf110. He was killed in action a couple of months later. For a photo see here; Seaman

Many thanks abra. I didn't know these details. I'll send you a pm, so as not divert this thread. Really interested to know any more details you might have and particular any contacts available for crew members still living.

Thanks again, PFR.:)

Adopt a military grave
 

I heartily agree and thought of a solitary war grave in a church close to me which I visited only a couple of weeks ago. The headstone is a pale shade of green due to surrounding trees etc and I would be grateful if someone could advise a particular brand of stone cleaner as I am somewhat hesitant of using one that might damage the stone.

Cleaning CWGC tablets
 

ATR43 My apologies, I don't often get the chance to visit this site and missed your message. To the best of my knowledge, CWGC use a mild solution of bleach to clean algae and soil splashes from Portland limestone. If you think about it, with the number of stones they have to maintain (the number's in the back of my head somewhere and these days will probably have to remain there) anything resembling a commercial product would be ruled out on cost grounds. Anyway, they've been cleaning them for eighty-odd years, long before anything more sophisticated was available. It's what I use and seems to do no damage.

i stumbled upon a very odd situation a while ago, a pal of mine found a 1st war death plaque in a junkshop and bought for me because there was a sticker on the back that said this person enrolled in a town close to where i live, so after trying the phone book i found a relative and hey presto he pointed me in the direction of the grave great methinks

not so after many weeks of tramping around a gert big boneyard i found it, now hers the prob because the son died before the cwgc had a standard headstone and a short while later his mother died so they buried her on top of him so what i found was a small inexpensive headstone with son and mothers names inscribed

in short a man who died on active service with no official type headstone
are there any more?

Good morning Gentlemen,

Just lookin at the ages of most of the posters on this tiny topic, it seems the majority are born in a portion of time most people refer to as the "Bulge" and we were those Babies, well none of us can help that it' s purely an accident of birth, but when we have all departed this mortal coyle, do you think others will be as willing to undertake such time consuming tasks as we all seem to have done, and continue to do !

Peter R-B
Vfrpilotpb

'tis a pity this thread is needed. I've recently moved to Canada where every tiny hamlet has an immaculate war memorial & graves, Remembrance Day is a holiday, national sports programs pause to remember every loss in Afghanistan, and every car on the highway comes to a halt if a cortege passes.
Good to see Wootton Bassett being recognised for their efforts.

Low lifes
 

I don't no how much the scrap man might of given for a small brass plaque hopefully they will be caught and we will know their names.

Sorry this is slightly off topic.

Commemorative plaque for hero soldier is stolen from Stockton Parish churchyard bench - Local News - News - Gazette Live

What's the next generation going to do?
 

Mea culpa. I've not been here for too long.

So far as the next generation is concerned, I'm not too worried. The regeneration of interest in 'Remembrance' has, it seems to me at least, been most marked in recent years. A couple of things have helped (and I'm taking purely about the UK here). The Iraq and Afghanistan Operations have made a huge difference in public awareness; a bloody reminder that infantry operations = deaths in action. But also, a decade before that, WW1 was introduced into the GCSE History syllabus and schools started visiting Ypres and the Somme. (No complaints - built a business up out of it). Added to this is the 'Family History on the Internet' explosion and investigations into who GreatGrandad was and why he never came home.

Generally I take the view of my old History Prof - 'You can't have History until the're all dead. 'Till then it's bl00dy journalism.' Now, of course, they all are. Bless them. And the Last Fighting Tommy has gone.

The net result is that there has never been more interest in the work of the CWGC and local War Memorials. In the twenty years that I have been attending the Remembrance Day service in my own village the numbers present were steady at 20 or 30 until say seven years ago. Last November we had nearly 300 and ran right out of Service sheets. In the pub afterwards a number of people made the point that it was their children that had been the catalyst in their attendance.

It's quite worrying. You can spend time in the Public Bar of the Bell grumping about 'the youth of today' and how hopeless they are and 'We're Doomed I tell you, Doomed'. Then you get a phone call from a 13 year old asking whether you know where.....etc. Completely demolishes your defences.

I hope that also goes some of the way to answering also the the 'War Memorial awareness' issue that was raised. Trouble is, that the larger the town/city, the more that the population has changed. Places that had a relatively small footprint and a homogeneous population in 1920 nowadays simply don't. And many of the present inhabitants of that old footprint area neither know nor care. That's not an immigrant-bashing theme, in many places the population is simply rootless, just a place to live whilst you're trying to make a life. Been there, done that.

Low lifes
 

Walked past the bench last week and the plaque was back on the bench not sure if it was original or a new one.

Index to CWGC database
 

I was browsing this thread the other day and started wondering if there were any Commonwealth graves here in Vietnam, from 1945 (British Army) or 1960s-1970s (ANZAC). So I went to the CWGC website and was amazed that you can only search their database by Casualty Name or Cemetary Name!

That would be great if I was looking up my relative Frederick Youens in the Railway Dugouts Cemetary, but not much use if I'm looking for graves in Vietnam.

However I found this site where an index has been organized starting with Country. http://http://www.purecollector.com/history/cwgc/

A labour of love. Well done, Duncan McLeod :D

So I was able to discover that there are no Commonwealth graves in Vietnam. The nearest are in Thailand and Malaysia.

WWI graves
 

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/IMAG0001.jpg">http://[URL="http://%3Ca%20href="]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/IMAG0002.jpg[/URL]">http://[URL="http://%3Ca%20href="]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/IMAG0004.jpg[/URL]">http://[URL="http://s247.photobucket.com/albums/gg130/parts_bucket/?action=view&current=IMAG0004.jpg"]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/IMAG0004.jpg[/URL]Hi I have attached a few photo's of my local cemetry,both graves are first world war ones,Albert Masters avro 504 collided with another aircraft over Lincolnshire,near gainsborough,RFC had just become the RAF.

The other grave is of a pilot who was on the front line for some time,he came back to England for training purposes,he collided with a tree in thick fog at Wyton.
the cross has broken off his grave.

Roger:hmm::)

Last Tuesday morning I drove from Penang to Taiping to visit the Kamunting Road Christian Cemetery there. The purpose of the visit was to photograph the post-war Military graves therein for inclusion in The War Graves Photographic Project database.

Kamunting Road is another well cared for cemetery with several seperate sections for the casualties of the Emergency period, Confrontation and other causes.

After completing the task at Kamunting Road, I drove the short distance to Bukit Larut where the CWGC cemetery is located. I had never visited this site before and found it a very moving experience. This year marks the 70th anniversary of the Japanese landings at Kota Baru and it is at the Taiping site that the first casualties of this campaign are interred.

I also photographed this site and include three photos below. More of the images that I took can be seen by clicking on any of the photos included here.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5316/...981a6716_z.jpg
CWGCTaiping027 by Janner88, on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6052/...c3ec9db5_z.jpg
CWGCTaiping003 by Janner88, on Flickr

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6015/...42509560_z.jpg
CWGCTaiping010 by Janner88, on Flickr

War graves in far off places
 

I and my Son sometimes visit Murmansk in northern Russia

There are graves their from the 1st and 2nd war

Some are from Northumberland Fusiliers in the first war period about 1918 and others from maritime artillery reg

All are in excellent condition phots available

Thanks for this post(s)-reminded me to go and look at the graves associated with RAF Lichfield at Fradley Village

Apologies for the quality - but these graves (in Nunton cemetery, Benbecula) are of RAAF crew members, Sergeants Guppy, Taplin and F/O Delarue of a B17 (I believe) which ditched just off Benbecula in October 42.
Does anyone have any information on the accident?
http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/...enbecula02.jpg

The full picture is here:http://www.awm.gov.au/catalogue/rese...9125z007_1.pdf. Search for 402322 Flying Officer DELARUE, Jack Edward.

Thank you very much for that - have amended my post.
Local rumours had it that more of the crew would have survived if the RAF air sea rescue launch had been available. It was alleged that it had been taken away on a jolly.

It is great to hear about the others taking care of the monuments and graves. I ‘m also taking care of the monument, which is still relatively unknown, and which is dedicated to the WWII pilots and others…Basically, the history of this monument is more less similar to the one at.... where a plane crash took place….just in terms of the history. As both are surrounded by the huge ｃｅｍｅｎｔｅｒｉｅｓ.Some of the survivors who managed to build the monument were my future instructors. As its happens many ( thousands )at a time while reaching the freedom faced the plaque of the tropical sicknesses and died in pretty harsh conditions while the others survived. However, the monument as had learned from the survivors was a form of a gift to a country for being accepted and many reminded in an area at latter . As I was told by the survivors and it is a truth that they shall be always ( at least ) remembered by the people who accepted them …. I do not wish to talk too much about this monument, as I feel a little bit embarassed.

AFhelipilot.

Never feel embarassed, all of us who look after things from many conflicts past, are in our own small way repaying somthing to those who gave much to all future generations , who they could only hope would benefit from what they went through, ultimately some paying a heavy price in so doing.

My regards to all on this thread.

Peter R-B
Lancashire

Civillian War dead in Singapore
 

Hi,
I know that this is getting away from the upkeep of the English gravestones but does anyone have any idea what or where the English civillian war dead have been remembered?
My Aunt, Alice Gwendoline Wilkinson was killed on the Yin Ping in the Bankla Straits on evacuation of Singapore. She is listed on the CWGC site but no mention of any headstone.
I would love to visit her grave this year as we are travelling abroad and plan to visit Singapore and the UK.
My Uncle Patrick Ormond Wilkinson was a Lieutenant in the RN and survived the bombing but endured 4 years in POW camps in Changi and other destinations after the loss of his new wife.
Any info on this subject would be appreciated.
Lorrym

Dear Peter,


Thank you so much for your nice insight at this time . I will be going to Africa and shall check my monument, as at previous the only one person in charge of taking care of this monument was my aunt a British African. wife of a Baron (he was also flying,) Lately, had been looking at the pictures of this monument. It's all about our common history which sometimes requires a little bit of silent attention. I had many nice discussions with my aunt about Europe and till now there are many things which I hardly get, I just had learned that the airlines I was s with are giving the people a hard time with the taxes out there. Peter, I will be also in UK to watch the Olympic games with other aunt, and on a way I was thinking about the cancer issue and still thinking always. I will tidy up the pictures and will place them. Actually, you are right there is no reason to feel embarrassed at all, let's the other feel embarassed . Thank you again.

"who they could only hope would benefit from what they went through, ultimately some paying a heavy price in so doing."


Peter RB ( former Vf)
Right!I am happy you are here since you are really an example to follow wisely afterall you went through with the operation. As for now, please do not botheryourself with any additional not needed duties, any " advises "which could have any effect onyour health. I want you to fly as you have two kids, I will convince the management in the nearestfuture, as I already spoke with one of the airlines in general, as you wentthrough an operation touching my field. I will be in mum’s country UK and alsoin Africa again, and will submit the pictures of the monument further on. Then will tell further on of what I had learned from that monument.

Lorrym, I'm not sure what details you may have on the loss of your aunt aboard HMT Yin Ping. This was an Admiralty tug and appears to be among one of the last vessels to leave Singapore before the final surrender.

Checking through my copy of "Singapore Burning" by Colin Smith, he notes that there were 78 people on board and that the ship was attacked by a Japanese cruiser on 15 Feb 42, whilst trying to negotiate the Bangka Strait. Only 32 of those on board survived the attack. There is also mention of the sinking here:

About us

It seems, in common with many other casualties from around that time, your aunt may not have a known grave. Clicking on her name in the CWGC search record takes you to another page on that site. I include a link to the new page below:

CWGC - Casualty Details

From that, it would appear that she is commemorated within the Civilian War Dead Roll of Honour which is located near St George's Chapel in Westminster Abbey.

I'm sure that if you have any other query regarding your aunt, the CWGC would do their best to answer it.

I hope that helps a little.

Have just found this thread - what a cracking idea. Will contact the CWGC and check the state of the few graves in my locale sharpish.:D:D

TN.

Even VC's are not Immune!
 

Up here in Lancashire we have the Local Town Hall just comming under huge pressure from the populace ( read Older Generation) due to the headstone of a brave man having just been re-discovered hidden in what looks like a jungle(in the main town cemetary), this is the final resting place of a private Soldier from the 1914/18 Great War, who was the holder of the VC for a very brave and unselfish act of courage in the face of the Boch, he passed away it seems in 1959 and was afforded the headstone from the War Grave Commision who some time later replaced this with a Marble type with his bravery and embellishments worded for all to see.

It seems the local Council also have a agreement with the WGC to ensure this type of grave is always tended and kept clear, however with many members of this Council now too young even to remember the Mau-Mau or the Eoka problems, and being from many different points of the compass, it seems respect for Valour has gone the way of most traditions.

I am happy to say that a local Stone Mason upon hearing of this took it upon himself to ensure the marker of this very brave man has been restored to full view and cleaned up.

How sad this is, that a council who is a body supposedly working for the local population and have taken funding from the WGC, can overlook things such as this.

Peter R-B
Lancashire

In Holland, the graves of Allied casualties from WW2 are often 'adopted' by local folk, who ensure that flowers are regularly placed on the 'their' grave. In particular, this is done on significant anniversaries (Liberation Day/US Memorial Day etc.)

I was at Margraten (east of Maastricht) US Cemetery a few years ago on Liberation Day (May 05). The place was a sea of flowers, placed by local Dutch folk, who were there in large numbers. General David Petraeus (US Army) was there & I managed a few words with him as his entourage passed by. He was amazed & clearly moved by this display by the Dutch people.

Based as I am in north-central Europe, I always endeavour to visit as many of these places as possible on my travels.

Lest we forget........

HB

On a trip to Thailand I visited a British WWII cemetery up near the River Kwai. It was a beautiful spot with well cared for graves. There were Thai ladies clipping the grass around the graves with scissors! Anyone who has someone buried here can be assured that their loved ones are very well cared for.

I look after four war graves in two local churchyards, two First World War and two Second World War.

The churches are very grateful and it doesn't take up a lot of time to honour those who paid the ultimate price

Pete

Lancaster Ll791
 

Further to your posting by John Dale in Aug 2000 regarding the grave of Sgt K E Gilson RAFVR does anyone know any more information as I am possible seeing Sgt H S Cammish of that flight at end of September 2012 he managed to evade but the other 5 were made POW's.
Did anyone trace the families?
contact Michael [email protected]

R.A.F. Sharjah
 

Forgotten and neglected for many years since the departure of Bitish Foces in the early 70's, the cemetery on R.A.F. Sharjah has now come under the care of the C.W.G.C.
We have a special interest in this as my wife Chris's dad was buried there in 1964. He was a civilian working for the M.P.B.W. at the time of his death and is not included in the C.W.G.C.'s commitment. We have received outstanding help and support however from C.P.O. Justin Wardle who is stationed in Dubai in the post of Port Visit Manager. Justin and crew members of visiting R.N. ships have visited the cemetery on a number of occassions to tidy it up. This is what he said:

I can confirm that I have had call to visit the Sharjah Cemetery this year for a Memorial Service in the Military site which was attended by the British Ambassador, the British Consulate General, the Defence Attaché and his team, members of visiting RAF and Army Detachment and will now be conducted every year.

The cemetery is split into two sections where the Military Site is walled off from the rest of the plot. We conducted a memorial service there this year as the site has been recently refurbished with funding from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Unfortunately the remaining part of the cemetery does not receive the same sort of funding and is very run down. The RAF/ARMY and Navy all took part in a cleanup of the military site prior to the memorial service but thought it appropriate that we also assist with the remaining part, as this element was covered in weeds and rubble. I remember that amongst them was your wife’s father and a Royal Navy Captain HW Brammall and were the only two with headstones, the rest were white breeze blocks with no names. We did tidy up the specific areas around these two graves and lined the plots with stones to mark out the plots and identify them both as “owned” and we will look after as long as we are able to do so.

I located an archive within the British Embassy in Dubai a manifest of the persons within the graves and passed this back to the church, who had not kept a record of this for many years.

Like many others following this thread, I look after Commonwealth War Graves Commission markers in local cemeteries.
If you are interested in doing the same thing, it would be best to get in touch with the CWGC to ask where you could help most effectively. Whilst there might be a few omissions, the CWGC do have an on-going system for regularly checking their markers. They are cleaned every two years and checked for damage and inscription legibility every three. The CWGC would still like people to check the markers from time to time. They particularly ask that if needed, the marker is cleaned with water and a soft bristle brush. (I was specifically asked not to use any form of bleach as their people use an acceptable biocide, which doesn’t damage the stone). The CWGC ask that the surrounding area is kept cut and tidy, that the marker is checked for damage/graffiti etc and if found is reported and that the grave is commemorated at Remembrance Time.
Apart from asking me not to use bleach, they also asked that I contact the churchyard’s operator before doing anything. This resulted in reactions from ‘Anyone who wants to look after my graveyard is a friend of mine’, to a highly protective stance with an interview on site with vicar and curate and discussion of possible damage to wild orchids in the next field!
If you do contact the CWGC (Mrs Kerry Groves, CWGC, Jenton Road, Sydenham, Leamington Spa, Warks, CV31 1XS, expect a slow response as they are very busy) you will be told of those markers they would like assistance with. These are not confined to the standard CWGC marker and all of those are not necessarily Portland stone. They also include Private Markers, which were erected by the families and are of varying design. Whilst the CWGC takes no responsibility for Private Marker maintenance, it is keen the name is still clearly legible. ‘Keeping the name alive’ is important to the CWGC.
Finally, the CWGC is only responsible for those killed in the First and Second World Wars. You will see other markers of slightly differing shapes that have been erected by other organisations such as the MoD. The CWGC has no jurisdiction over these.
And now back to researching Gunner 273336 Ernest James Day RA who died 94 years and a week ago today.

R.A.F. Sharjah
 

These are recent photographs taken during a Rememberance Service held on the on the 11th November 2012. The re-configuration of the Cemetery is almost complete,
Regards,
Bob




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